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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:53 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
It’s not my opinion at all https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biz...iving.amp.html

You guys are strangely in denial it’s actually hilarious.
No, you are.

First of all, it's a survey of 1,500, not hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands. Second, that's not evidence of "despertate to move".

You seem to have no idea what basic things mean. You're just biased, and we know why.
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:57 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Alright well there is clearly no progress to be made here.

California problems are deep and will require a lot of effort on all your parts to figure out they are not recent trends they are the culmination of decades of mismanagement.

For whatever reason a totally reasonable criticism of how your state is run and assessment of whats going on over there is being treated like inaccurate attack.

If this is the track the people of California want to continue following, good luck, you'll need it.
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:07 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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For all the talk of California arrogance, there certainly is alot of arrogance from the other side.

You have your opinions and we have ours.
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:20 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
For all the talk of California arrogance, there certainly is alot of arrogance from the other side.

You have your opinions and we have ours.
For the thousandth time, its not my opinion.
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:25 PM
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Yes, it is. "Desperate to move" and using YOUR politics is an OPINION.
I don't know what else to tell you.

You don't know the reasons for hundreds of thousands of people.

You just want to believe they cant wait to leave. That's an OPINION.

My opinion and many others, is most Calfiornians are getting priced out, and there's several articles as evidence for this.
Hell, the survey you used cited COL.

Getting priced out, is not the same thing as wanting, or dreaming of moving somewhere.

Last edited by LA21st; Nov 4, 2019 at 7:37 PM.
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:47 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Yes, it is. "Desperate to move" and using YOUR politics is an OPINION.
I don't know what else to tell you.

You don't know the reasons for hundreds of thousands of people.

You just want to believe they cant wait to leave. That's an OPINION.

My opinion and many others, is most Calfiornians are getting priced out, and there's several articles as evidence for this.
Hell, the survey you used cited COL.

Getting priced out, is not the same thing as wanting, or dreaming of moving somewhere.
Lol okay dude, once again the stats and stories support my position you want to keep having an argument on semantics of weather they are desperate to leave or not.

I’m quite confident in my argument here, you clearly refuse to accept it. Once again good luck with all that.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:54 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post

Getting priced out, is not the same thing as wanting, or dreaming of moving somewhere.
Why not? If you're barely able to scrape by in California, but you hear you can buy a new car and a fairly big house with a yard in Texas/Georgia/wherever, is it outlandish to think that might represent someone's dream?

Getting 'priced out' isn't something that just happens over night. There are usually years of struggling before someone finally makes the decision to uproot their lives and try to go somewhere else where the dollar stretches a little further.

Listen, I get that a lot of conservatives are out there delighting in the struggles of California. I think a lot of the defensiveness from you and others is a reaction to that kind of BS. Texas, Georgia, Arizona....everywhere has problems. There are many, many reasons that I'd be VERY skeptical about moving to any one of those states, and I do love California and enjoy living here. But just because those people are out there actively cheering for the demise of our state, doesn't mean that there aren't real problems motivating lots of people to leave. If we can't talk about these issues, and talk about them without being totally dismissive of working and middle class people, the problems will only get worse.
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:54 PM
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Just about every scientist has been predicting for years that one consequence of global warming is hotter, drier, weather in the American west, with one consequence being longer, more severe, fire seasons. Unfortunately, one political party has their heads in the sand about this reality.

With earthquakes, I don't think there has been a fatal earthquake in California in three decades. I know people moan about 'government red tape' but strict building codes mean that earthquakes that would result in thousands of injuries/deaths in other countries cause only minor, localized, damage in California.

High housing costs, however, are a significant issue that needs to be addressed.
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:58 PM
badrunner badrunner is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Yes, it is. "Desperate to move" and using YOUR politics is an OPINION.
I don't know what else to tell you.

You don't know the reasons for hundreds of thousands of people.

You just want to believe they cant wait to leave. That's an OPINION.

My opinion and many others, is most Calfiornians are getting priced out, and there's several articles as evidence for this.
Hell, the survey you used cited COL.

Getting priced out, is not the same thing as wanting, or dreaming of moving somewhere.
It's so obvious when someone has an axe to grind isn't it?

I also lived through the 90s out here and it was way worse back then. I don't really see a big problem with people leaving the state. Many leaving are boomers cashing out and retiring, or dispersing second and third generation immigrants. It's not all just people getting priced out, although I don't really see a problem with that either. The correct and proper solution to California's housing crunch is for Texas to build more housing and take some of that overflow. That's the way I see it. Population dick measuring contests are stupid nonsense anyway. Let Texas absorb some of that growth for a while until they begin experiencing the same crunch at some point, but they still have plenty of room to grow. We don't. It would be ideal if California stayed right at around the 40m population mark.
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Why not? If you're barely able to scrape by in California, but you hear you can buy a new car and a fairly big house with a yard in Texas/Georgia/wherever, is it outlandish to think that might represent someone's dream?

Getting 'priced out' isn't something that just happens over night. There are usually years of struggling before someone finally makes the decision to uproot their lives and try to go somewhere else where the dollar stretches a little further.

Listen, I get that a lot of conservatives are out there delighting in the struggles of California. I think a lot of the defensiveness from you and others is a reaction to that kind of BS. Texas, Georgia, Arizona....everywhere has problems. There are many, many reasons that I'd be VERY skeptical about moving to any one of those states, and I do love California and enjoy living here. But just because those people are out there actively cheering for the demise of our state, doesn't mean that there aren't real problems motivating lots of people to leave. If we can't talk about these issues, and talk about them without being totally dismissive of working and middle class people, the problems will only get worse.
Yes, it's exactly why my reaction is the way it is. These conservatives actually cheer on wildfires when they're happening on social media. They hope (pray?) for 8.0 earthquakes.
It's disgusting. I have zero respect for this stuff.
Can you imagine if liberals laughed at Florida's misery with hurricanes and Texas floods?

They're awful people.

I was in Chicago when it seemed like they were celebrating Chicago murders because Obama was in office and he somehow had something to do with it.
I have no idea how those people think.

Last edited by LA21st; Nov 4, 2019 at 8:32 PM.
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Yes, it's exactly why my reaction is the way it is. These conservatives actually cheer on wildfires when they're happening on social media.
It's disgusting. I have zero respect for this stuff.
Can you imagine if liberals laughed at Florida's misery with hurricanes?
If only those silly Californians swept the forests...
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
If only those silly Californians swept the forests...
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
For the thousandth time, its not my opinion.
But California is still growing in population numbers? I guess I don't understand your point. Sure thousands are leaving for lower cost Texas, but thousands more are coming in to replace them. I'm a coastal guy who works in entertainment and I can assure you in my cohort there is no shortage of interest in an LA relocation should the need arise.
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Yes, it's exactly why my reaction is the way it is. These conservatives actually cheer on wildfires when they're happening on social media. They hope (pray?) for 8.0 earthquakes.
It's disgusting. I have zero respect for this stuff.
Can you imagine if liberals laughed at Florida's misery with hurricanes and Texas floods?

They're awful people.
Ironically, what Obadno may be cheering - Californians flooding to Texas - maybe the death knell of the current iteration of the R party. Once Texas becomes solidly blue next decade the path to any sort of R victory at the national level becomes almost impossible.
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:42 PM
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Sounds good. They deserve what they get, tbh.
They think their culture war has no consquences. Sorry, but it does. Their ugliness won't be forgotten.
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:47 PM
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Stating the reality isn’t cheering anything. The amount of sensitivity you guys seem to have over this is not just telling it’s absurd.

There are hundreds of thousands of Californians leaving California every year. This is because of structural issues in your state that make it unlivable for countless families.

I’m honestly baffled at how you can even pretend to deny this. There are articles about it regularly in all sorts of National press, the population numbers are what they are. I have nothing more to say other than I have no idea why you think I have an axe to grind? As I said multiple times I like California and I think it’s unfortunate what’s going on.
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 8:58 PM
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If any part of the California Dream is dying, it’s the aspect of it that is a state specific version of the American Dream. Having your own house in the San Fernando Valley or San Jose with good schools around and cheap everything is no longer sustainable and should not be favorable anymore for the foreseeable future.

If the state is wanting to retain both long time residents as well as newcomers, I believe its going to have to urbanize even more, especially in the vast remaining lands it already has in the IE and Central Valley


I know a lot of Californian forumers, residents, and even rich, well to do forumers that don’t live here assume the worse in this, but I honestly see the worse in what’s going on now with the high homeless population, middle class crunch, and just everything becoming less out of reach for the people who want to live here. Of course, many are leaving because they can no longer afford the “standard” benefits of suburbia that are now found Texas and other Southern states, and that’s fine since those areas can continue to maintain that lifestyle for them in the meantime.


But for now, the future of California might as well be more urban. Instead of building more SFHs and luxury apartment only the very well to do can afford, why not add in a larger quantity of multi-unit apartments, micro apartments and studios for young professionals and average folks, and even actually roof-over-the-head housing for the homeless and help them get possibly out of their situation since they aren’t gonna be helped anywhere else.


California is a great state and I would like to live here for a while, but why boast it beyond all measure? It ain’t a perfect place, as people have already mentioned. Doesn’t have to be though.


And the imperfections have to be as stated as much as the great things about it because all that’s gonna happen is more people are get the idea to come here and add more to the burden if they don’t help reduce it or make it less. This is a big ass country and there is a lot of places people can live. We should stop whatever is concentrating people to certain areas that have reached their limit and steer people to places that haven’t reached their potential yet.
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 9:13 PM
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I have to think the inflated cost of living of California will have to come crashing down at some point. I am from the northeast originally and while many places there are off the charts in terms of costs, it's highly concentrated in a few desirable areas; NYC, DC, Boston, upscale coastal towns, etc. where as pretty much all of CA west of the CV is expensive.
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 9:27 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
If any part of the California Dream is dying, it’s the aspect of it that is a state specific version of the American Dream. Having your own house in the San Fernando Valley or San Jose with good schools around and cheap everything is no longer sustainable and should not be favorable anymore for the foreseeable future.

If the state is wanting to retain both long time residents as well as newcomers, I believe its going to have to urbanize even more, especially in the vast remaining lands it already has in the IE and Central Valley


I know a lot of Californian forumers, residents, and even rich, well to do forumers that don’t live here assume the worse in this, but I honestly see the worse in what’s going on now with the high homeless population, middle class crunch, and just everything becoming less out of reach for the people who want to live here. Of course, many are leaving because they can no longer afford the “standard” benefits of suburbia that are now found Texas and other Southern states, and that’s fine since those areas can continue to maintain that lifestyle for them in the meantime.


But for now, the future of California might as well be more urban. Instead of building more SFHs and luxury apartment only the very well to do can afford, why not add in a larger quantity of multi-unit apartments, micro apartments and studios for young professionals and average folks, and even actually roof-over-the-head housing for the homeless and help them get possibly out of their situation since they aren’t gonna be helped anywhere else.


California is a great state and I would like to live here for a while, but why boast it beyond all measure? It ain’t a perfect place, as people have already mentioned. Doesn’t have to be though.


And the imperfections have to be as stated as much as the great things about it because all that’s gonna happen is more people are get the idea to come here and add more to the burden if they don’t help reduce it or make it less. This is a big ass country and there is a lot of places people can live. We should stop whatever is concentrating people to certain areas that have reached their limit and steer people to places that haven’t reached their potential yet.
Nobody said it was perfect. It obviously has issues, the homeless and wildfires being two obvious ones. But for someone to state hundreds of thousands of people are "desperate to move" like they're refugees or something is just ...nuts and speaks to an agenda, which this guy clearly has.

Again, I dont think the guy knows what that means, so maybe he's confused. If he's not, it's just ignorant and arrogant.

Last edited by LA21st; Nov 4, 2019 at 9:47 PM.
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Stating the reality isn’t cheering anything. The amount of sensitivity you guys seem to have over this is not just telling it’s absurd.

There are hundreds of thousands of Californians leaving California every year. This is because of structural issues in your state that make it unlivable for countless families.

I’m honestly baffled at how you can even pretend to deny this. There are articles about it regularly in all sorts of National press, the population numbers are what they are. I have nothing more to say other than I have no idea why you think I have an axe to grind? As I said multiple times I like California and I think it’s unfortunate what’s going on.
Weren't you the same guy who was sensitive about Phoenix's skyline?
I don't think you're the one to talk about that.

I'm 100% postiive if Calfiornians wanted to blast the south for all of its negatives on here, there would be the same "senstivity".

Last edited by LA21st; Nov 4, 2019 at 9:44 PM.
     
     
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