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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 5:47 AM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giallo View Post
Yeah. I didn't want to wade in to this conversation due to not having any concrete numbers, but Shanghai was an absolute boom town of over 3 million people in the 1920s/30s, and A LOT of art deco was built. The French Concession, a massive area in central Shanghai that I live in for seven years, is littered with art deco everywhere. I was constantly discovering new gems in alleys or down side streets.

To write off Shanghai as a major art deco center just because it wasn't in the US is foolish.
The Shanghai pic posted by Muppet are incredible!
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  #82  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 6:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I was there about a month or so ago; they do a light show at night and photos just don't capture just how ridiculously massive that thing is. You almost forget it's a 25 story building.
I do recall reading that the Merchandise Mart was once owned by papa Joe Kennedy. Is that correct? Is the building still doing well, with a high occupancy rate? What is inside--sellers of merchandise I guess? Clothing or other stuff? Grains? Retail stores open to the public? Is it just used for storage?
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  #83  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 6:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about actually - that's a gorgeous grand building of which Detroit has many. You would be hard pressed to find that outside of the CBD in any South African city. But stuff like this is dime a dozen in pretty much any suburb built before the mid 1950s:

https://goo.gl/maps/g59cGrmAdJmMu9pz8
https://goo.gl/maps/huuEDFFtUP8U8aJ3A
https://goo.gl/maps/1CXKNKDC5drpVqnv6
https://goo.gl/maps/4GvRdJ45qKNgHLvR8



As I said, much more subdued and with British colonial influence, but very clearly deco. Here's an article that claims it as #3, though I would personally doubt that: https://www.csmonitor.com/2000/1023/p7s1.html

It may also be useful to separate American art deco from what was occurring elsewhere in the world.
I know ,but there is a Art Deco monument in Pretoria which is 62 m tall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voortrekker_Monument

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...67.NhsL7GqEIag

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showt...hp?p=130044976

Last edited by Danie; Nov 1, 2019 at 6:54 AM.
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by muppet View Post
You know a fact doesn't become reality because you just decide it is. What are your sources?
Hard to come up with concrete numbers. Only the Mumbais and Shanghais of the world are going around counting every single (questionably) art deco building in the city for tourism bragging rights. Ain't nobody got time for that out here. That would be a completely pointless exercise in a place like LA as they are so commonplace and spread out all over instead of being neatly confined to a colonial section of the center city like in Shanghai.

But we could use some logic and common sense to come up with some estimates. LA MSA went from 1m to 3m from 1920 to 1940 and up to 4.3m by 1950. I would conservatively estimate about 1 million prewar buildings in total, with the majority built in the early art deco era. If just 1% of them are art deco, you could do the math. And unlike in Shanghai or Mumbai, that's a completely realistic and conservative estimate because we're not talking about some niche colonial buildings here, in America art deco is commonplace and completely at home in its natural environment.

People don't appreciate just how much art deco is a part of the American visual vernacular. You see it in big cities and you see it in small towns in the middle of nowhere. Art deco is quintessential classic Americana. Think Route 66 and Radiator Springs.

Besides raw numbers there is also the qualitative argument. Dare I say that of all the examples of art deco posted in this thread, the American specimens consistently feature more inspired and distinctive designs? While the "colonial" versions tend to be either a bit more subdued and derivative, or overly loud? Is that too biased? or is it accurate? or completely subjective? imo it's really not that complicated and it's really not that subjective.

State of the art opulence and luxury in 1930 America:
This ain't no Mumbai or Rio, my friend.




https://losangelestheatres.blogspot....ium-views.html
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 8:15 AM
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OK sounds alot like you're repeatedly changing the goalposts in order to make the US on top each time, acc to you. At first there's only one particular type that is art deco, then taking in anything from that period (which btw would then count hundreds of thousands of Shanghai's shikumen housing and longtang lanes)

So now we're talking about the quality and je ne sais quoi of the style? And in your opinion all other art deco comes wanting by dint of it not being in America (and thus too understated or too overstated)? Is it that non Europeans can't build to that finesse or something? This may be news but the quality of design and craftsmanship is just the same as any art deco round the world, plus the variety.

The varying states of the movement, from sumptuous to spare, the Belle Epoque period of a city:


https://historycouncilnsw.org.au






www.a-hotel-with-a-story.com https://chinesemartialstudies.files.wordpress.com


https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com


https://peterhack.com.au

https://worldhistory.us

https://cdn.fodors.com



https://tatarartprojects.com

www.decopix.com







https://thecoolhunter.net

www.hsbc.com






Last edited by muppet; Nov 1, 2019 at 8:51 AM.
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 8:18 AM
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Art Deco in San Francisco

Russ Bldg. (office)

source


source

Shell Bldg. (office)

source




Coit Tower (monument)

source

The San Francisco Mint

source

US Appraisers Office/ICE

source

San Francisco Chronicle offices and plant

source

Neighborhood-scale commercial

source

Bridge (duh)

source

The infamous 450 Suffer (Sutter)

source

140 New Montgomery (originally Pacific Telephone & Telegraph offices)

source



Twitter HQ

source

1101 Green St./Bellaire Tower (residential)

source


source

McAllister Tower (residential)

source


source
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 8:39 AM
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That Shell building in SF...
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 10:26 AM
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Anyone want to post some grand concourse pics?

Nobody should forget the Bronx as a center or Art Deco (it was developed in the interwar period)
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 10:29 AM
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Muppets probably going to argue that London (population 75 million) has more art deco skyscrapers than New York.
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 10:48 AM
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My favorite streamline moderne in Los Angeles
https://goo.gl/maps/i9ufG4NXg3zJSWJN8
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Muppets probably going to argue that London (population 75 million) has more art deco skyscrapers than New York.
lol yup!
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 2:04 PM
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  #93  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by saybanana View Post
My favorite streamline moderne in Los Angeles
https://goo.gl/maps/i9ufG4NXg3zJSWJN8
Yes, I love that building too.

I love the high schools that were also done in Streamline Moderne in the LA area. As unfortunate as the 1933 Long Beach Earthquake was, that was the motivation to build new seismically safer high school buildings, and that being the WPA period, many of them were built in a Streamline Moderne style. I remember going to different high school auditoriums that were fantastically in that style, that even had Art Deco exit signs.

Speaking of LA public buildings done in Art Deco, there's also the LA County General Hospital, and Van Nuys City Hall...


I've only skimmed through this thread, but people have mentioned that Art Deco really took off in exuberance in the US. Well, during the period that Art Deco was popular in the US, Europe was already embracing that early Modernism/International Style architecture, which I also like. Unfortunately, though, that style evolved into those awful boring 1960s glass boxes and 1970s tinted glass boxes. But the early Modern stuff is cool, like that Bauhaus architecture.
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  #94  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
One important distinction seems to be that the US by-and-large used art deco in institutional & commercial applications, but not much in the way of residential (NY being the exception here - and even then it tended to build more in the Beaux Arts, Italianate, etc. styles, from what it seems). A place like Tel Aviv on the other hand is chock-a-block with streamline moderne stuff like this: https://goo.gl/maps/nWMwLsQvJWpMtyBp9

As a result I wouldn't be surprised to see some non-US cities with the highest numbers of art deco buildings, even if the best and most of the grand examples of the style are largely found in New York, Chicago, LA, and Detroit.

Yeah it's rare to find anything like that Tel Aviv example in the US, really. NYC has a similar density of deco architecture in areas but a very different vibe.

It reminds me a little bit of Yeoville and surroundings in Joburg, which in parts is wall to wall deco/moderne. ranging from large apartment blocks to small several unit structures. It's a pretty dodgy area right now but if I had money to burn I'd definitely invest for the long run (I know people doing it now) - some really beautiful residential stock that's slowly being renovated.

https://goo.gl/maps/opcW4SYGcB4W9SrZA
https://goo.gl/maps/fdBrmeG18mmAsGHN7
https://goo.gl/maps/sCjrqRdrATJ63LDC6
https://goo.gl/maps/aCgbiuMDBfpWM2xx6
https://goo.gl/maps/xQ8PR3XzY1vavrt59
https://goo.gl/maps/heScTipDHg9Chx5e9


Downtown of course it's pretty much wall to wall in areas, with a couple standouts. Lacking some of the monumental feel of American cities, of course:

https://goo.gl/maps/TcDt9SCG9q1AMHz67
https://goo.gl/maps/LUGso1p8WwFjK6be8
https://goo.gl/maps/DDkVrhDcuAm6SF37A
https://goo.gl/maps/GixsXz2sxHN4LjABA

I have no intention of turning this into a city vs city and we can probably all agree that the US took deco to another level. But, I think that some people are underestimating how much deco/moderne was a global style and not just American. I'm just very familiar with Johannesburg and know very little about Shanghai, Rio, Mumbai, etc. They were almost literally building in one style for 2 decades during a massive gold fueled boom. American cities tended to have a lot more variation in architectural style even during popular movements, which isn't a bad thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Danie View Post
I know ,but there is a Art Deco monument in Pretoria which is 62 m tall
The Voortrekker monument looks great! And is surprisingly well maintained.
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Last edited by niwell; Nov 1, 2019 at 5:24 PM.
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  #95  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 5:07 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by muppet View Post
OK sounds alot like you're repeatedly changing the goalposts in order to make the US on top each time, acc to you. At first there's only one particular type that is art deco, then taking in anything from that period (which btw would then count hundreds of thousands of Shanghai's shikumen housing and longtang lanes)

So now we're talking about the quality and je ne sais quoi of the style? And in your opinion all other art deco comes wanting by dint of it not being in America (and thus too understated or too overstated)? Is it that non Europeans can't build to that finesse or something? This may be news but the quality of design and craftsmanship is just the same as any art deco round the world, plus the variety.

The varying states of the movement, from sumptuous to spare, the Belle Epoque period of a city:

derp! just so you are not going to take one commenter as all of the usa, right? a reminder i guess.

there is no question vast usa as a whole has the most art deco scattered around. not even worth discussing.

however, city by city is another story though for sure and you have certainly proved that point.

and i cannot even imagine peak deco era and then what was lost everywhere over the years.

anyway, great pics -- that was a cool shanghai surprize. ha.

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  #96  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by saybanana View Post
My favorite streamline moderne in Los Angeles
https://goo.gl/maps/i9ufG4NXg3zJSWJN8
Hey that reminds me, LA is also home to a very unique art deco treasure, the RMS Queen Mary, a 1936 transatlantic ocean liner, the last surviving one of its kind, with a very British take on an art deco interior.

https://goo.gl/maps/iD2z8KKY4oyHR5p68
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  #97  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
Yeah it's rare to find anything like that Tel Aviv example in the US, really. NYC has a similar density of deco architecture in areas but a very different vibe.

It reminds me a little bit of Yeoville and surroundings in Joburg, which in parts is wall to wall deco/moderne. ranging from large apartment blocks to small several unit structures. It's a pretty dodgy area right now but if I had money to burn I'd definitely invest for the long run (I know people doing it now) - some really beautiful residential stock that's slowly being renovated.

https://goo.gl/maps/opcW4SYGcB4W9SrZA
https://goo.gl/maps/fdBrmeG18mmAsGHN7
https://goo.gl/maps/sCjrqRdrATJ63LDC6
https://goo.gl/maps/aCgbiuMDBfpWM2xx6
https://goo.gl/maps/xQ8PR3XzY1vavrt59
https://goo.gl/maps/heScTipDHg9Chx5e9


Downtown of course it's pretty much wall to wall in areas, with a couple standouts. Lacking some of the monumental feel of American cities, of course:

https://goo.gl/maps/TcDt9SCG9q1AMHz67
https://goo.gl/maps/LUGso1p8WwFjK6be8
https://goo.gl/maps/DDkVrhDcuAm6SF37A
https://goo.gl/maps/GixsXz2sxHN4LjABA

I have no intention of turning this into a city vs city and we can probably all agree that the US took deco to another level. But, I think that some people are underestimating how much deco/moderne was a global style and not just American. I'm just very familiar with Johannesburg and know very little about Shanghai, Rio, Mumbai, etc. They were almost literally building in one style for 2 decades during a massive gold fueled boom. American cities tended to have a lot more variation in architectural style even during popular movements, which isn't a bad thing.
The Voortrekker monument looks great! And is surprisingly well maintained.

this is wild...like some kind of alternative universe LA.
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
this is wild...like some kind of alternative universe LA.
Yes!!! I’ve rarely waded into the “LA looks like” threads, particularly as I’m not too familiar with the city. But from what I have seen joburg fits the bill better than a lot do. Bizarre but does make some sense given their trajectories.
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  #99  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 9:54 PM
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No relevant really, but I just wanted to say that It just wouldn't be as epic if King Kong climbed a green glass tower with a screaming damsel, or if Godzilla wreaked havoc among similar blue and bronze coloured glass buildings..I love those classic deco skylines of both NYC and Tokyo regardless on which city has more of that style.
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  #100  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 11:36 PM
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Here's a hypothesis: Art Deco was the first truly global architectural style.

Sure, there were Transatlantic movements before, and certain European countries had exported variants of their indigenous styles to their colonies; but Art Deco is the first that freely happened in tandem in nearly every corner of the world. Any truth to this?
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Last edited by MonkeyRonin; Nov 2, 2019 at 5:36 AM.
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