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  #81  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 1:15 PM
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The Falls themselves are actually quite spectacular in the wintertime. But sure, other outdoor activities are quite limited, or at least many other cold climate areas have way more to offer for outdoor winter pursuits.
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  #82  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The Falls themselves are actually quite spectacular in the wintertime. But sure, other outdoor activities are quite limited, or at least many other cold climate areas have way more to offer for outdoor winter pursuits.
What do people do after they see the Falls themselves?..Just more injection of night life, which is indoors anyways..Less souvenier shops. These shop dominate the prime real estate..Something to enhance the Falls. Another poster mentioned capitalizing on legal weed..That could be an option..Weed cafe's?..A place where people wouldn't mind going to in the off season..The local getaway for Torontonians who don't necessarily want to leave for more then the weekend..A place for bachelor parties, and not just newlyweds..There is where the Vegas inspiration comes in..I'm probably beating a dead horse though..The climate may be the big inhibitor..People escape to Montreal for the weekend in the dead of winter though.

Last edited by Razor; Oct 30, 2019 at 10:36 PM.
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  #83  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 10:59 PM
edale edale is offline
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What do people do after they see the Falls themselves?..Just more injection of night life, which is indoors anyways..Less souvenier shops. These shop dominate the prime real estate..Something to enhance the Falls. Another poster mentioned capitalizing on legal weed..That could be an option..Weed cafe's?..A place where people wouldn't mind going to in the off season..The local getaway for Torontonians who don't necessarily want to leave for more then the weekend..A place for bachelor parties, and not just newlyweds..There is where the Vegas inspiration comes in..I'm probably beating a dead horse though..The climate may be the big inhibitor..People escape to Montreal for the weekend in the dead of winter though.
Haven't heard of too many people doing this, tbh. Winter is always a down season in cold weather climates. You can book rooms at super fancy hotels in Chicago for a fraction of the price in winter compared to going rates in summer/fall. The Vegas comparison doesn't hold up because so much of Vegas is built around the fact that it's this hot, desert mirage of a place. Day parties at the pools, or even just lounging by the pool with a drink, is probably the number one thing people do in Vegas during the day. That and shopping. I suppose if Niagara Falls went all Dubai and created some really over the top malls with indoor skiing and water parks and what not, that could help make it more of a year-round destination.

I actually think Niagara Falls would have been better off foregoing the gambling and wax museum type of stuff. Instead, they should have capitalized on the stunning natural setting and surrounding recreational opportunities. Developed a cute/charming town center and kept the area more or less pristine and quaint. I could see that type of environment being hugely popular, especially as a weekend get away for Toronto. But I guess that's really never been what NF is about.
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  #84  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 2:12 AM
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I actually think Niagara Falls would have been better off foregoing the gambling and wax museum type of stuff. Instead, they should have capitalized on the stunning natural setting and surrounding recreational opportunities. Developed a cute/charming town center and kept the area more or less pristine and quaint. I could see that type of environment being hugely popular, especially as a weekend get away for Toronto. But I guess that's really never been what NF is about.
Gambling brought the last boom and massive hotel expansion. It was a deliberate move by the Ontario government to stimulate the local economy and it worked. The economy in the post-honeymoon era was moribund.

We cannot deny the history of Niagara Falls, which created the schlock of Clifton Hill. This has existed for over 150 years, dating to when the first tight rope walkers crossed over the falls. I think we need to respect and build around this rather unique history instead of trying to bury it.

If you want a cute and charming town centre, it already exists just down the road at Niagara-on-the-Lake. This developed naturally as a typical historic Ontario town, while trying to do the same in Niagara Falls itself would be a totally artificial creation.

There is all kinds of ways to improve NF but we cannot make it something that it is not.

The interesting natural areas and stunning settings already exist all along the Niagara Parkway and in the Niagara park system if people care to explore. Parks are great but they will never create success similar to Las Vegas. They alone will not even support the status quo.
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  #85  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:39 AM
bossabreezes bossabreezes is offline
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Short answer; no.
Long answer; no way.
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  #86  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
by that standard vegas is a suburb of LA
By what standards? Niagara Region is a similar distance from Toronto as Ocean County, NJ is from Manhattan or much of the Inland Empire cities are from DTLA. Detroit is closer to Toronto than Las Vegas is to LA and Cleveland and Ottawa are barely further.

Allentown or Hartford & New York City would be a better comparison. A significantly smaller city at the edge of a bigger city's orbit, not connected enough to be a suburb, but still in the sphere of influence in many ways.
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  #87  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Haven't heard of too many people doing this, tbh. Winter is always a down season in cold weather climates. You can book rooms at super fancy hotels in Chicago for a fraction of the price in winter compared to going rates in summer/fall. The Vegas comparison doesn't hold up because so much of Vegas is built around the fact that it's this hot, desert mirage of a place. Day parties at the pools, or even just lounging by the pool with a drink, is probably the number one thing people do in Vegas during the day. That and shopping. I suppose if Niagara Falls went all Dubai and created some really over the top malls with indoor skiing and water parks and what not, that could help make it more of a year-round destination.

I actually think Niagara Falls would have been better off foregoing the gambling and wax museum type of stuff. Instead, they should have capitalized on the stunning natural setting and surrounding recreational opportunities. Developed a cute/charming town center and kept the area more or less pristine and quaint. I could see that type of environment being hugely popular, especially as a weekend get away for Toronto. But I guess that's really never been what NF is about.
The kind of already have a cute town center, but the tourists seem to go for the wax museum area instead.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.10667...7i13312!8i6656
Niagara Falls' historic town center isn't really anything special compared to your average Great Lakes/Midwest town though, it's not like Niagara On The Lake which has one of the best collections of early-mid 19th century buildings in Canada, much less somewhere like Boston, Charleston, New Orleans or Quebec City.
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  #88  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 11:57 AM
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Haven't heard of too many people doing this, tbh. Winter is always a down season in cold weather climates. You can book rooms at super fancy hotels in Chicago for a fraction of the price in winter compared to going rates in summer/fall. .
I don't know about Chicago but people do escape to Montreal during winter weekends and the hotels are generally pretty full. Except for certain specific times when winter is part of the attraction (Christmas, the annual winter festival, etc.) the weather doesn't play into it much either way and geography plays into it more: it's within striking distance of places like Boston, NYC, Ottawa, Toronto, etc. if you don't want to go too far for a quick trip. Plus stuff like looser rules on liquor and other things enters into it as well...
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  #89  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:11 PM
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By what standards? Niagara Region is a similar distance from Toronto as Ocean County, NJ is from Manhattan or much of the Inland Empire cities are from DTLA. Detroit is closer to Toronto than Las Vegas is to LA and Cleveland and Ottawa are barely further.
Metropolitan areas have nothing to do with relative distance from a fixed point. Obviously metropolitan areas vary greatly by size and shape.

Luxembourg isn't a suburb of Frankfurt just because Atlanta sprawls to an equivalent radius. No one even considers Mainz a suburb of Frankfurt, and it's maybe 15 km away.
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  #90  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:16 PM
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I don't know about Chicago but people do escape to Montreal during winter weekends and the hotels are generally pretty full.
Maybe Canadians are different. I've never heard of Ameicans visting Montreal in winter (it's a very popular summer destination from the NE Corridor).

In the U.S., there's usually a massive difference in hotel prices in cold weather cities from summer to winter (unless there's a specific event or a seasonal attraction). The Chicago Hilton is usually around $250 a night in the warm weather months, and can now be had for $90 a night.

Look at these rates, in the heart of Chicago, right now. Everything is at least 1/2 the price you would have paid two months ago. And it isn't bitter cold yet:

https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search..._source=google
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  #91  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Maybe Canadians are different. I've never heard of Ameicans visting Montreal in winter (it's a very popular summer destination from the NE Corridor).

In the U.S., there's usually a massive difference in hotel prices in cold weather cities from summer to winter (unless there's a specific event or a seasonal attraction). The Chicago Hilton is usually around $250 a night in the warm weather months, and can already be had for $90 a night, right now.
I picture Quebec City as more of a winter specific destination given the carnival and that Christmas village aesthetic.


from: https://www.kevinandamanda.com/quebec-city/

It's not uncommon for people from the GTA to travel to Montreal in the winter though. Proximity to Mont Tremblant definitely helps. I've done a couple ~4-day trips where you do Montreal for a night or two and then head up to Tremblant which is really the only proper skiing in Canada East of the Rockies.
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  #92  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:29 PM
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Count me in on the traveled to Montreal in winter crowd, multiple times at that. Not a fan of winter sports at all either. Just a relatively cheap change of pace and actual snow is sometimes nicer than Toronto grey and slush. I've never really noticed a big price difference in Montreal hotels / airbnbs except around major events.
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  #93  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:34 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Maybe Canadians are different. I've never heard of Ameicans visting Montreal in winter (it's a very popular summer destination from the NE Corridor).

In the U.S., there's usually a massive difference in hotel prices in cold weather cities from summer to winter (unless there's a specific event or a seasonal attraction). The Chicago Hilton is usually around $250 a night in the warm weather months, and can now be had for $90 a night.

Look at these rates, in the heart of Chicago, right now. Everything is at least 1/2 the price you would have paid two months ago. And it isn't bitter cold yet:

https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search..._source=google
I mentioned this before. In Canadian cities, the business convention market is from fall to spring.

This is necessary to offset the relatively short warm weather tourist season.

I doubt you will see the kind of hotel price variation in Canadian cities that you pointed out in Chicago.

Niagara Falls is an exception. It is strictly a tourist town, and because of the lack of good airport connections, it cannot develop a role as a convention centre. This is why improved transportation connections are needed to move Niagara Falls to the next level.
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  #94  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:43 PM
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Maybe Canadians are different. I've never heard of Ameicans visting Montreal in winter (it's a very popular summer destination from the NE Corridor).
There are lots of people in Montreal hotels from Boston/New England on winter weekends. Most from the college crowd who come to take advantage of the lower drinking age and other hedonistic pursuits.

Montreal, Quebec City and Quebec in general also have sizeable Euro French winter tourist traffic who come for wilderness adventure trips where they partake in stuff like snowmobiling, snowshoeing, etc.
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  #95  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 12:59 AM
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I think they're closer to pulling off a "Reno" than a "Vegas". Reno is also in a cold climate.


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