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  #61  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 4:44 PM
Razor Razor is offline
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ agreed, might as well say suburban buffalo too then.

part of the buff-ham-tor metroplex?
Which is what 10 million within a few hours drive?..NF could be 'fun city" for that market.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
And given that 90% of the population is in the U.S., it's fair to say its location, based on future growth prospects, stinks.
Forget the American side for a minute..In this case, 90% of the population for that region resides on the Canadian side, and is not depressed like Western NY.,In my sim city Niagara Falls makeover, The Buffalo market is just an added bonus..Logistically, it's the Canadian side that would actually have the makeover.
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  #62  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Las Vegas has warm sunny weather. Weather in upstate NY is generally crappy. For that reason alone, Niagara Falls never stands a chance at replicating Las Vegas.
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  #63  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
by that standard vegas is a suburb of LA

Considering the LA CSA extends to the Nevada border, it nearly is!
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  #64  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 5:07 PM
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^ that's due to large LA county sizes, nothing more. 80% of that land is desert

anyhow to hear the canadians talk, Buffalo is like Tijuana or something

in fact Buffalo's GDP is 53$ billion.

Hamilton is 27$ billion and Niagara region is 17$ billion

So maybe we can speak of Buffalo-Hamilton-Niagara region (population 2.5 million) as the secondary cross-border lynchpin of the lake Ontario megapolis?
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  #65  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Las Vegas has warm sunny weather. Weather in upstate NY is generally crappy. For that reason alone, Niagara Falls never stands a chance at replicating Las Vegas.
From late March to early December, It's bearable. It's not exactly Winnipeg either.They have a bit of wine region there do they not?. Shut-er down in the winter even..It's not like Las Vegas doesn't have extreme weather..A desert in July isn't exactly pleasant.


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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
^ that's due to large LA county sizes, nothing more. 80% of that land is desert

anyhow to hear the canadians talk, Buffalo is like Tijuana or something

in fact Buffalo's GDP is 53$ billion.

Hamilton is 27$ billion and Niagara region is 17$ billion

So maybe we can speak of Buffalo-Hamilton-Niagara region (population 2.5 million) as the secondary cross-border lynchpin of the lake Ontario megapolis?
Well the pretty purse wielding lady in the room that you want to get the dance with is actually Toronto, but ya..Niagara/ Hamilton + Buffalo is sizeable, and is in the immediate vicinity.

Last edited by Razor; Oct 27, 2019 at 8:14 PM.
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  #66  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 2:20 PM
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What needs to happen is more seamless transportation between Niagara Falls and Buffalo airport for the American market and between Niagara Falls and Pearson airport for the Canadian and International markets. Of course, we also need improvements between Niagara Falls and Toronto Union Station.

The problem is that Niagara Falls is too close but between major airports whereas this is not the case with Las Vegas, which is sufficiently separate to justify its own major airport. This in itself is holding back Niagara Falls as a major destination. Transportation from airports is too awkward. I once organized a conference in Niagara Falls and this was a problem. For most people, they had to rent a car to get to Niagara Falls.
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  #67  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Forget the American side for a minute..In this case, 90% of the population for that region resides on the Canadian side, and is not depressed like Western NY.,In my sim city Niagara Falls makeover, The Buffalo market is just an added bonus..Logistically, it's the Canadian side that would actually have the makeover.
Are you talking about a casino-specific makeover? Aren't there already tons of casinos in Ontario? I thought I always see the billboards in the GTA.

It isn't like the casino market is unlimited. They recently opened a huge casino in the Catskills, and it has been underperforming, because the U.S. market is so oversaturated. NF already has three big casinos. How many more are needed?
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  #68  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 2:48 PM
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It's not just casinos. Ditch the family friendly BS and go for a more diversity for all ages. More nightlife and bars. The Canadian side of Niagra Falls can also play on its strength of allowing better adult entertainment and legal pot.

The area wineries and parks are also an underutilized national attraction.

It can be a nice weekend getaway for the Toronto metro area and western NY.
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  #69  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
From late March to early December, It's bearable. It's not exactly Winnipeg either.They have a bit of wine region there do they not?. Shut-er down in the winter even..It's not like Las Vegas doesn't have extreme weather..A desert in July isn't exactly pleasant.




Well the pretty purse wielding lady in the room that you want to get the dance with is actually Toronto, but ya..Niagara/ Hamilton + Buffalo is sizeable, and is in the immediate vicinity.
Late March to early December, coming from someone that lives even farther north. The reality is, if you're going to sell either Niagara Falls to Americans on the East Coast or Midwest, the tourist season is much shorter. It's really mid-May to early October. The lake effect snow begins in November (but sometimes begins in October), and it snows into April in that area. People are generally done with snow and winter by March, so any place that still have a lingering winter in April is going to be very unappealing.
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  #70  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
What needs to happen is more seamless transportation between Niagara Falls and Buffalo airport for the American market and between Niagara Falls and Pearson airport for the Canadian and International markets. Of course, we also need improvements between Niagara Falls and Toronto Union Station.

The problem is that Niagara Falls is too close but between major airports whereas this is not the case with Las Vegas, which is sufficiently separate to justify its own major airport. This in itself is holding back Niagara Falls as a major destination. Transportation from airports is too awkward. I once organized a conference in Niagara Falls and this was a problem. For most people, they had to rent a car to get to Niagara Falls.
Good point. Niagara Falls has their own international airport, but I don't think it is used by commercial airlines that much. Maybe a couple commuter planes to Florida every day. Buffalo/Niagara itself is a pretty small airport, so the Niagara Falls airport is redundant. Then you have Hamilton as well, on the other side.
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  #71  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Late March to early December, coming from someone that lives even farther north. The reality is, if you're going to sell either Niagara Falls to Americans on the East Coast or Midwest, the tourist season is much shorter. It's really mid-May to early October. The lake effect snow begins in November (but sometimes begins in October), and it snows into April in that area. People are generally done with snow and winter by March, so any place that still have a lingering winter in April is going to be very unappealing.
Realistically, I would say that Niagara Falls weather can be quite good from late April to mid to late October. The coincides with seasons from spring flowers to fall colour.

As someone from 'further north', there is a weather switch around April 20th. Although snow is possible in October, it is quite rare. Real wintery weather typically arrives here further north in the latter part of November or even early December.

What Niagara Falls needs to go after is the business convention market. This again requires better transportation connections to airports but could help fill the hotels when tourist traffic is low. Generally speaking, in Canadian cities, convention season is fall to spring or the opposite of tourist season. Inadequate transportation connections is really limiting Niagara Falls for the convention market.
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  #72  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Las Vegas has warm sunny weather. Weather in upstate NY is generally crappy. For that reason alone, Niagara Falls never stands a chance at replicating Las Vegas.
...and NF is especially horrible in the winter. I went once as a kid and it was unbearable. Atlantic City was supposed to be the Vegas of the east and that didn't pan out so NF stands zero chance.
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  #73  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:03 PM
Razor Razor is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
...and NF is especially horrible in the winter. I went once as a kid and it was unbearable. Atlantic City was supposed to be the Vegas of the east and that didn't pan out so NF stands zero chance.
Well Atlantic City didn't have the Falls, and the already built in guaranteed tourism because of having that natural wonder..My concept was to build up on being just a tourist town because of the Falls, and morph into also being an adult get away. A two for one,

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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Late March to early December, coming from someone that lives even farther north. The reality is, if you're going to sell either Niagara Falls to Americans on the East Coast or Midwest, the tourist season is much shorter. It's really mid-May to early October. The lake effect snow begins in November (but sometimes begins in October), and it snows into April in that area. People are generally done with snow and winter by March, so any place that still have a lingering winter in April is going to be very unappealing.
If climate is a concern, then all it needs to appeal to really, are people from the GTA and Western New York who are used to the climate.That's enough of a base for people looking for a local fun getaway on a whim..The international tourists can keep the status quo, and only come during the warmer season.

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Originally Posted by C. View Post
It's not just casinos. Ditch the family friendly BS and go for a more diversity for all ages. More nightlife and bars. The Canadian side of Niagra Falls can also play on its strength of allowing better adult entertainment and legal pot.

The area wineries and parks are also an underutilized national attraction.

It can be a nice weekend getaway for the Toronto metro area and western NY.
Exactly! The city is almost geared towards having that identity, but falls really short.(pun intended)..Also, it's too bad they couldn't build a large man made mountain for skiing, but that's a little ambitious. Yes to capitalizing on legal weed and that culture..That could be an angle.

Some of you on here, and I'm assuming from south of the snow line, make it sound like come November it's time to lock yourself in and hunker down like bears hibernating..There are lots of really nice sunny winter days hovering just above or below the freezing mark..I've been out in February with no mitts and just a sweater catching a tan from the sun reflecting off the snow on such days.Again, moot point when places like Vegas can be just as extreme the other way.

Last edited by Razor; Oct 28, 2019 at 6:42 PM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
There are lots of really nice sunny winter days hovering just above or below the freezing mark..I've been out in February with no mitts and just a sweater catching a tan from the sun reflecting off the snow on such days.Again, moot point when places like Vegas can be just as extreme the other way.
You're speaking as a Canadian. Americans don't want to be sitting on Maid of the Mist or doing that behind the falls walk where you get all wet when it's "just above or below the freezing mark". That sounds like torture.

Weatherwise, NF is tolerable from like May-September. Will never be a year-round destination, as long as people have money to travel somewhere warmer.

Niagara on the Lake seems really popular and successful, but that's really a different kind of destination. That place is packed on summer weekends.
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  #75  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You're speaking as a Canadian. Americans don't want to be sitting on Maid of the Mist or doing that behind the falls walk where you get all wet when it's "just above or below the freezing mark". That sounds like torture.

Weatherwise, NF is tolerable from like May-September. Will never be a year-round destination, as long as people have money to travel somewhere warmer.

Niagara on the Lake seems really popular and successful, but that's really a different kind of destination. That place is packed on summer weekends.
Has nothing to do with Americans, but rather Mankind in general.

Nobody wants to freeze their Big Booty Judy off in the winter. That's why so many Canadians, Canadian Geese and Americans that live in northern climates vacation in Florida, Arizona, California, Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, Hawaii during the cold months -- They're not going in the opposite direction.
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  #76  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Has nothing to do with Americans, but rather Mankind in general.

Nobody wants to freeze their Big Booty Judy off in the winter. That's why so many Canadians, Canadian Geese and Americans that live in northern climates vacation in Florida, Arizona, California, Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, Hawaii during the cold months -- They're not going in the opposite direction.
That's why there is no such thing as ski resorts. Unfortunately, even the escarpment itself is not high enough to make it a viable ski resort.
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  #77  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 12:01 AM
Razor Razor is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You're speaking as a Canadian. Americans don't want to be sitting on Maid of the Mist or doing that behind the falls walk where you get all wet when it's "just above or below the freezing mark". That sounds like torture.

Weatherwise, NF is tolerable from like May-September. Will never be a year-round destination, as long as people have money to travel somewhere warmer.

Niagara on the Lake seems really popular and successful, but that's really a different kind of destination. That place is packed on summer weekends.
Yes, but it could still diversify if even for those months..Even for the winter , it could still be a kind of "fun city" for that market forgetting about the Falls..People living in that area (both sides) don't go see the Falls anyways.Just dial it back for the winter, and go full bore giving tourists more choice for the summer..Winter = entertainment for the GTA and Western NY..Summer =Falls+ Entertainment for everybody.

Last edited by Razor; Oct 29, 2019 at 12:16 AM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:03 AM
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Niagara Falls is already a destination for people from Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo. But that does not lead to any real growth; that would mean that Niagara Falls is just a local destination, like all of the beach destinations like the Jersey Shore, Cape Cod, Eastern Shore of Maryland, etc.
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  #79  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Niagara Falls is already a destination for people from Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo. But that does not lead to any real growth; that would mean that Niagara Falls is just a local destination, like all of the beach destinations like the Jersey Shore, Cape Cod, Eastern Shore of Maryland, etc.
Do you really think that is true? I would say that Niagara Falls has an international image that the other locations mentioned do not.
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  #80  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 3:14 AM
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Do you really think that is true? I would say that Niagara Falls has an international image that the other locations mentioned do not.
It is, if one was to essentially throw in the towel and give in to the suggestion above to just be a destination for people from Toronto and Buffalo in the wintertime.
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