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  #741  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 4:37 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by skysoar View Post
Oh yes, there are just hundreds of developers lined up to develop environmentally challenged areas like Lincoln Yards. I have no problem giving some subsidies to projects like LY, because they have a potential to leverage the T.I.F, by providing employment and a great improvement over what exist there now. Besides we give umm..handouts to a lot less potential entities than Lincoln Yards.
Sterling Bay paid $140 million for the A. Finkl & Sons land before there was a TIF.
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  #742  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 4:45 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
from Tribune reporter John Byrne on twitter @_johnbyrne

Finance Commte Chair Ald Pat O'Connor now says he plans to take testimony on LY and 78 TIFs today, then come back Wednesday morning prior to full council, potentially vote on the controversial funding mechanisms then
This will be Lightfoot's first real test, the question will be how much do the alderbeasties fear her. One wonders if there will be enough defectors to aldermanic prerogative in this situation to defer to Lightfoot. Though there might also be enough lame ducks in office to throw the vote to SB.

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Originally Posted by skysoar View Post
Oh yes, there are just hundreds of developers lined up to develop environmentally challenged areas like Lincoln Yards. I have no problem giving some subsidies to projects like LY, because they have a potential to leverage the T.I.F, by providing employment and a great improvement over what exist there now. Besides we give umm..handouts to a lot less potential entities than Lincoln Yards.
Not hundreds, but Sterling Bay was sold the city parcel North of the North Ave Home Depot at a discount to Omni group's higher bid. The fact is SB is being given preferential treatment here as the "home team champ" which is exactly the kind of clouted bullshit that needs to stop. If Omni is willing to pay more for the facility management garage than Sterling Bay, then it should be sold to Omni. I don't care if SB is trying to do something big and fancy here, the city needs every dime it can get.

Same goes for this TIF bullshit, no go F yourselves SB. In what world does a swath of riverfront land smack dab between the two premier neighborhoods of Chicago's north side need a TIF? If you want a TIF you can have one but it's going to be for a train line from the Brown Line to the Blue Line so your clusterfuck of a plan can't totally trash traffic circulation on the entire near North Side.


As I've said several times already: GO GET 'EM LORI!
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  #743  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 5:20 PM
skysoar skysoar is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
This will be Lightfoot's first real test, the question will be how much do the alderbeasties fear her. One wonders if there will be enough defectors to aldermanic prerogative in this situation to defer to Lightfoot. Though there might also be enough lame ducks in office to throw the vote to SB.



Not hundreds, but Sterling Bay was sold the city parcel North of the North Ave Home Depot at a discount to Omni group's higher bid. The fact is SB is being given preferential treatment here as the "home team champ" which is exactly the kind of clouted bullshit that needs to stop. If Omni is willing to pay more for the facility management garage than Sterling Bay, then it should be sold to Omni. I don't care if SB is trying to do something big and fancy here, the city needs every dime it can get.

Same goes for this TIF bullshit, no go F yourselves SB. In what world does a swath of riverfront land smack dab between the two premier neighborhoods of Chicago's north side need a TIF? If you want a TIF you can have one but it's going to be for a train line from the Brown Line to the Blue Line so your clusterfuck of a plan can't totally trash traffic circulation on the entire near North Side.


As I've said several times already: GO GET 'EM LORI!
All of the arguments against Sterling Bay and Lincoln Yards development sound good, but reality is, this is where we are. In business development timing is everything, we can all commentate , and that's good , but in the end those with power and money will somehow find a way. Rahm played a smart hand in his statement, by saying I will not call for a vote, he did not say WE will not call for a vote. Very shrewd.
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  #744  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 5:42 PM
Goose Island Guru Goose Island Guru is offline
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
let's hope we don't fully retreat to John Buck doing one spec as-of-right building a year and that's it for center city
This cycle is toast. Strap in boys and enjoy the jobs already approved.
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  #745  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 5:58 PM
Goose Island Guru Goose Island Guru is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post

Not hundreds, but Sterling Bay was sold the city parcel North of the North Ave Home Depot at a discount to Omni group's higher bid. The fact is SB is being given preferential treatment here as the "home team champ" which is exactly the kind of clouted bullshit that needs to stop. If Omni is willing to pay more for the facility management garage than Sterling Bay, then it should be sold to Omni. I don't care if SB is trying to do something big and fancy here, the city needs every dime it can get.

Same goes for this TIF bullshit, no go F yourselves SB. In what world does a swath of riverfront land smack dab between the two premier neighborhoods of Chicago's north side need a TIF? If you want a TIF you can have one but it's going to be for a train line from the Brown Line to the Blue Line so your clusterfuck of a plan can't totally trash traffic circulation on the entire near North Side.


As I've said several times already: GO GET 'EM LORI!
A sale is not all about the final figure.

The Onni number was higher, yes. However, Onni's offer required HIGHER density zoning changes than SB's offer. Onni's offer also had a deferred close whereas SB's offer had a more immediate close. Time value of money reduces millions of dollars on Onni's offer by many millions of dollars in PV. Finally, Onni's offer also required the City to pay to demolish the existing building whereas SB's offer had SB doing demo. That lower's the net value of Onni's offer even further. I don't know what assumed return the City uses in the analysis, but given its assumptions in pension returns say it's 7.5%. At an 18-month delay, Onni's offer is therefore worth about $11.8 million less than face value. What is the cost of higher density? Who knows. Demo on that warehouse is probably $750k or more. Just those two items put SB's PV bid above Onni's. If I can come to that conclusion in 5 minutes with publicly-available information then a responsible reporter can do the same rather than spreading nonsense.

Regarding TIF, if you think a development can exist without help in infrastructure and you want to put down a hard line there, then congrats, you've earned the coming lull in development across the City. The only hope for this cycle to continue in a strong manner was to get LY and/or 78 fully approved by the City prior to the new administration taking over.
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  #746  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 7:16 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by Goose Island Guru View Post
Regarding TIF, if you think a development can exist without help in infrastructure and you want to put down a hard line there, then congrats, you've earned the coming lull in development across the City.
Except nobody, especially Lightfoot, is saying this is all or nothing. That's a strawman argument.
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  #747  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 9:07 PM
Goose Island Guru Goose Island Guru is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj View Post
Except nobody, especially Lightfoot, is saying this is all or nothing. That's a strawman argument.
The guy I quoted literally said "In what world does [LY] need a TIF?"
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  #748  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by skysoar View Post
All of the arguments against Sterling Bay and Lincoln Yards development sound good, but reality is, this is where we are. In business development timing is everything, we can all commentate , and that's good , but in the end those with power and money will somehow find a way. Rahm played a smart hand in his statement, by saying I will not call for a vote, he did not say WE will not call for a vote. Very shrewd.
Yes, I think Emanuel, Reifman, and Sterling Bay prepared for this possibility and I sense they are prepared to make more concessions to secure the TIF deal this week. Not so sure about Related since they have not faced the same levels of opposition, but probably.
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  #749  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 11:15 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Originally Posted by skysoar View Post
Oh yes, there are just hundreds of developers lined up to develop environmentally challenged areas like Lincoln Yards. I have no problem giving some subsidies to projects like LY, because they have a potential to leverage the T.I.F, by providing employment and a great improvement over what exist there now. Besides we give umm..handouts to a lot less potential entities than Lincoln Yards.

If you're too eager to take any deal then the only deal you'll get is a bad one. Learning to walk away in negotiations is a skill that some should learn. In this case, Lincoln Yards is no more "challenged" than other areas of the city that transitioned from industrial to other uses. Underutilized relatively inexpensive land in the midst of comparatively heavily developed and utilized expensive land will attract development. After all, it already did so once when it went from pasture to industrial uses (you'll note it isn't currently grassland). It would or could redevelop over time in the hands of several developers versus redeveloping slowly over time in the hands of one developer (as all other projects of this magnitude have) whom we've paid handsomely for the privilege.
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  #750  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 11:26 PM
TimeAgain TimeAgain is offline
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Someone explain to my why Lincoln Park needs $1.3 billion in public dollars? Wouldn't that money be better spent encouraging development in other parts of the city.
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  #751  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2019, 11:50 PM
skysoar skysoar is offline
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Originally Posted by JK47 View Post
If you're too eager to take any deal then the only deal you'll get is a bad one. Learning to walk away in negotiations is a skill that some should learn. In this case, Lincoln Yards is no more "challenged" than other areas of the city that transitioned from industrial to other uses. Underutilized relatively inexpensive land in the midst of comparatively heavily developed and utilized expensive land will attract development. After all, it already did so once when it went from pasture to industrial uses (you'll note it isn't currently grassland). It would or could redevelop over time in the hands of several developers versus redeveloping slowly over time in the hands of one developer (as other projects of this magnitude have) whom we've paid handsomely for the privilege.
I do not see LY as just any deal. Its unique, how many deals of this magnitude is happening across this country at this time. Did you notice all the cities that were willing to pay even greater incentives than is being offered Sterling Bay for the Amazon HQ2. Its not about being too eager, its about taking advantage of an opportunity that with an economic downturn being on the horizon may never pass this way again. Sure there is a point of a deal where you may have to walk away, but there is also a point where you close. Wed may be that time, we will see.
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  #752  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 8:53 PM
Khantilever Khantilever is offline
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Someone explain to my why Lincoln Park needs $1.3 billion in public dollars? Wouldn't that money be better spent encouraging development in other parts of the city.
Because the return on investment is higher in this area. Build all the bridges, roads and transitways you want in depressed areas of the city, and nothing will happen. Thousands of young professionals and F500 HQs are not going to set up shop there that easily.

The TIF encourages a larger private investment from Sterling Bay and will have a larger long-term payoff for the rest of the city. If we force the cost of these public goods onto a private developer, they will reduce their private investment and avoid as much investment in infrastructure as possible.

The irony is that it's possible that if the TIF is shot down congestion could end up worse, depending on how SB re-designs their plans and the zoning allowances we make. When from their perspective every dollar spent making congestion less bad for Lincoln Park or Bucktown is a wasted dollar, and when they will need to build more densely to make up for those wasted expenditures, what exactly is the outcome we expect?

Public goods require public funds. It's that simple.
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  #753  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 10:13 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Someone explain to my why Lincoln Park needs $1.3 billion in public dollars? Wouldn't that money be better spent encouraging development in other parts of the city.
someone is late to the P-A-R-T-A-Y

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  #754  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 1:43 PM
ChiPlanner ChiPlanner is online now
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Looks like the TIFs will be approved today after all.

Quote:
Mayor-elect Lori Lightfoot backed off her push to delay a City Council vote on the fate of two of the most ambitious real estate projects in the city's history, clearing the way for the developers behind the proposals to win up to $2.4 billion in public subsidies to help them... Lightfoot issued a statement late last night acknowledging that the votes are likely there to approve the TIF districts and that she would seek no further delay.

The statement said she met with both developers yesterday and both committed to increases in minority-owned and women-owned business enterprises that will be part of the redevelopment agreements governing each project. The total participation would increase by $80 million to a combined $400 million, according to the statement.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/comm...-yards-78-tifs
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  #755  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 2:26 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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TIFs for LY and the 78 approved.
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  #756  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 2:30 PM
PleasantlyMidway PleasantlyMidway is offline
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I will venture to guess that once the TIFs are formally approved, Sterling Bay can start to announce the tenants that they have already attracted to Lincoln Yards and have agreements with. I'd bet it's farther along than we thought...
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  #757  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 2:34 PM
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what a joke
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  #758  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 2:58 PM
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BVictor1 BVictor1 is online now
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what a joke
You almost sound shocked and appalled...
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  #759  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 2:59 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by PleasantlyMidway View Post
I will venture to guess that once the TIFs are formally approved, Sterling Bay can start to announce the tenants that they have already attracted to Lincoln Yards and have agreements with. I'd bet it's farther along than we thought...
It's possible that as soon as the City Council approves the TIF, SB will be out with an announcement.

I'd love to see a major HQ. Ideally a company that's from outside the Chicagoland area.

But that's wishful thinking, I know...
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  #760  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 3:15 PM
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You almost sound shocked and appalled...
that would entail being born yesterday
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