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  #14261  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
I hope you all will indulge me and answer a question I've had for a long time. I'm confused by the scene in Criss Cross (1949) where the armored truck is loaded and leaves the Pacific Mutual garage. As it leaves the camera follows it through a window directly above the exit ramp, which appears to be part of a skylight structure. Nothing like this is there now nor was in my memory. I see no sign of it in e_r's construction photo. Are we really inside the garage or is this a very good set and back-projection effort or what? There are some cuts, but basically it's one continuous scene coming down the stairs from the second floor (or a mezzanine) counting room until the truck turns north on Grand. I cannot get my Google car to stop in exactly the right place so I can look down into the garage exit (and never thought to explore further when I was actually on Grand Ave). I hope this doesn't take forever to load. Thx.

Yes, I vote rear-projection. I've always thought, even as a kid, this was a relatively well done (for the time) rear-projection shot. I think the counting room, the stairs and the truck loading area are a fairly high (again, for the time) quality set. The wall finishes, the flooring and especially the lighting seem like a set to me. You mention the apparent lack of a drain on the parking area or ramp, this has also struck me as even in Los Angeles we get the occasional downpour, imagine that ramp feeding rain water into that automatic door and parking area. I have another Criss Cross anomaly that I'll post in a while. The kind of thing that once you've seen it, it pretty much will catch your eye every time you see the movie. By the way, did you notice Kenneth Patterson? He plays Dana Wynter's father in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
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  #14262  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 6:04 PM
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Meanwhile, back at the scene of the crime....(sort of...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post
But now let's talk Carlton noir...

USCDL

The library's caption: "Vice raid...6526 Selma Avenue, 8 October 1951. Lee Carlton -- 40 years; Mrs. Mary Richards -- 40 years (Las Palmas Hotel)"


The Las Palmas Hotel is at 1738 N Las Palmas and was seen in Pretty Woman. Perhaps the raid was there. However, the Selma Manor was at 6526 Selma...
Los Angeles Times
1941


6526 Selma Ave is no more.
It's been awhile since there was post about a noirish Los Angeles crime, so here goes:

This relates to the Las Palmas Hotel in Hollywood mentioned in GW's previous post and another mysterious homicide...

The scene: 1738 N. Las Palmas The date: August 28, 1958

gsv

The victim: Helen F. Jerome

my photo

Just the facts, ma'am: Helene Jerome was an early talkie actress who performed in Europe and in cabarets in China during the 1930's. By the mid 1950's she had retired and was living in Conneticut where she befriended a young ingenue named Inger Stevens who was performing summer stock in the area (Stevens was to later gain fame as the star of her own tv show, "The Farmer's Daughter', and committed suicide in 1970). By 1958, Helene and her estranged husband Edwin had moved to Los Angeles, Helene taking a back apartment at the Las Palmas, and Edwin getting his own place nearby. In July, Edwin took the snapshot of Helene shown above by the back door of her apartment, and mailed the photo along with a letter Helene had written to Inger.

my photo

Inger Stevens

www.ingerstevens.org/newpics.html

On August 28th, 1958, Edwin became concerned when Helene's phone went unanswered. He found Helene nude, strangled in her apartment, and called LAPD. Police observed that the screen to the back window/back door had been torn, and surmised that was how the intruder gained entry. In the course of interviewing neighbors and friends, the police zeroed in on two suspects, but ultimately they were not charged with the murder. Some four years later, a man walks into a Portland, Oregon police station and confesses to the killing. However the chronology of the events is difficult to reconstruct, given the movements of the principals involved. Officially, the case is "solved" but questions still linger.

In the above photo, one can see the backdoor and window area, the same one in the snapshot taken in July.
latimes archive

The suspects: Miller Dowdy and Glenn MacAdoo


Edwin died shortly after the murder. Helene and Edwin are buried together, Grand View Memorial Park, Glendale, CA

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&GRid=29120517

A more thorough discussion of the cold case can be found here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thed...r/2008/week35/
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  #14263  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 6:14 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
Yes, I vote rear-projection. I've always thought, even as a kid, this was a relatively well done (for the time) rear-projection shot. I think the counting room, the stairs and the truck loading area are a fairly high (again, for the time) quality set. The wall finishes, the flooring and especially the lighting seem like a set to me. You mention the apparent lack of a drain on the parking area or ramp, this has also struck me as even in Los Angeles we get the occasional downpour, imagine that ramp feeding rain water into that automatic door and parking area. I have another Criss Cross anomaly that I'll post in a while. The kind of thing that once you've seen it, it pretty much will catch your eye every time you see the movie. By the way, did you notice Kenneth Patterson? He plays Dana Wynter's father in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Thank you so much MR for taking a look at that. Re the set, there's a lot of money on the screen: the ceiling fixtures (both in the counting room and on the landing), the fact that there's ceilings at all, the decorative screen, the solidity and width of the staircase, the handrail, the flooring, the window, etc.. The two automatic doors seem a bit of a stretch though. The sound isn't right either, there's zero background noise as there would be in a real building. The truck's doors slamming and the engine starting up don't boom as I think they should. The one thing I forgot to put in the post was that the shadow on the south side of the ramp does not appear through the open door:



That alone should have convinced me that this was done in post. Still, the smoothness of the truck leaving the garage and proceeding up the ramp is extremely impressive. That's what kept me guessing and sometimes had me convinced this was all real. Also, the painfully-obvious back-projection in the very next scene (through the truck's windows as they head to the refinery) makes the Pacific Mutual garage scene seem real by comparison. And I'm still a little confused as to why they went to all this effort. It could have been done much more cheaply (as some other scenes in the film are).

I did notice Kenneth Patterson and named him in the post. He does a nice turn as Pepe Bailey. He worked until 1989, the year before his death, often uncredited, as in Criss Cross.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to your Criss Cross post.
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  #14264  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
Re the P.S. to my last post on this building (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14254), I wish I had a floor plan or cutaway for "The Carriage House", there may have been other community rooms too.
Thanks,tovangar2. Next time I'm downtown I'll try to go inside the garage and see what's there.
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  #14265  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 9:33 PM
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I am trying to find more information and photos of this fine looking hotel.


http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/



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  #14266  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 9:48 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WS1911 View Post
Thanks,tovangar2. Next time I'm downtown I'll try to go inside the garage and see what's there.
That would be great. I may have been assuming too much, like how much of the interior of "The Carriage House" is taken up with parking. It looks like there's rooftop parking in the long view and from Google maps, but I've never looked directly down on it from the Biltmore or the Annex (now "The Sentry Building"). Does anyone know when the big analog clock was removed from "The Clock Building"?
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  #14267  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemster2024 View Post
It's a type of arcade machine, e_r; my guess is that it's supposed to be an R2D2 knockoff. When I went back there on the weekend, kids were dropping quarters into it, and it lights up and plays robotic sounds...Chinatown needs the revenue...!
Haha... this is a digression, but this is really a knock off of both (1) Robbie the Robot from Forbidden Planet, and (2) the Robot in Lost in Space.
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  #14268  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Since we're still discussing the Pacific Mutual garage I thought I'd 'visit' the Pacific Mutual lobby and 6th Street entrance.


The soaring 6th Street entrance. Notice the coffered ceiling within the high arch.

gsv






This barrel-vaulted coffered ceiling extends the length of the lobby to the first set of elevators and mezzanine.


http://www.you-are-here.com/downtown/pacific_life.html




exquisite details

http://anecdotalgoat.com/





Looking back toward the 6th street entrance.


http://friendsofsdarch.photoshelter....000IMyYeZ9jB8k







The mezzanine level and first set of elevators.


nextimagephoto.com







The mezzanine ceiling.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/lyan_zu...9425/lightbox/








The mezzanine stairway/balustrade with the initials of Pacific Mutual Insurance Co.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/antepar...4930/lightbox/






side hall, looking back toward the lobby/mezzanine. (the building is basically a H)

nextimagephoto




see, H shaped

google earth
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lemster2024, your post on the Helene Jerome murder was very interesting. -good job!
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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 27, 2013 at 1:40 AM.
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  #14269  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 12:36 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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You are all so knowledgeable and I've learned so much from you, that I hesitated to put a "challenge" up, but I think this one might be a mystery to some of you:


http://books.google.com/books?id=MG0...20main&f=false

Hint: It was a famous landmark in LA from when it was built in 1854. After remodeling (as shown in the photo) it became a popular venue. It was demolished in 1889.

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 27, 2015 at 7:31 PM. Reason: fix link
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  #14270  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
You are all so knowledgeable and I've learned so much from you, that I hesitated to put a "challenge" up, but I think this one might be a mystery to some of you:



Hint: It was a famous landmark in LA from when it was built in 1854. After remodeling (as shown in the photo) it became a popular venue. It was demolished in 1889.
Photograph of the Round House, built by Ramon Alexander in 1854, 311 to 317 south Main Street, south from Third Street through to Spring Street, ca.1885. The twelve-sided two-story structure with a conical roof is fronted by trees along the property which is separated from the sidewalk and street by a wooden fence. A pedestrian is visible at left. Another brick structure is visible at right. Legible signs include: ..."Builders". Owned by George Lehman and last used as a kindergarten school.; "The large real estate interests of George Lehman, including the Round House property, the Georgetown Bakery, brick house on Spring Street between Sixth and Seventh, lot in the rear of Judge O'Melveny's place on Second Street and several corner lots on Sixth and Spring, Seventh and Spring, Fourth and Hill streets, etc. will be disposed of tomorrow at sheriff's sale. The property is some of the most desirable for business and residence purposes to be found in the city. Considering the dull times it will probably go for a song." -- Newspaper clippng, 16 May 1879

Sarah Bixby mentions it in Adobe Days, she went to school for a time right next door.
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  #14271  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 12:55 AM
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I'll take your challenge T2. (oops, I see MR beat me to it by two measly minutes )

This twelve sided structure was built by Ramon Alexander on Main St. south of 3rd Street. It was used as a kindergarten (see below).


cd of mine

...and eventually a saloon (I have no proof, simply hearsay)
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  #14272  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 1:37 AM
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May 1, 1926


Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
Wow, great find, and still under construction too! One can clearly see the difference in fenestration between the Grand and Olive halves of the building. The elevator/entrance tower also stands out. All three Pacific Mutual Buildings are in this shot as well. Too bad it's not a little wider as this was before the Biltmore was extended to Grand. As far as I know, the building holds five levels of parking, one underground, one street level, two on the upper stories and the last on the roof (plus the spaces outside on the north side of the building). I've actually never been in it.
I was able to dig up some photographs of the interior.




I've never seen a garage with a floor like this.

http://www.movielocationsguide.com/




http://www.movielocationsguide.com/





http://www.movielocationsguide.com/





http://www.movielocationsguide.com/




the roof!

http://www.movielocationsguide.com/

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  #14273  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 1:58 AM
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Our beloved Criss Cross...(spoiler alert)


Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (1)


I grabbed this image right at the end of that magnificent opening tracking shot, coursing over civic center and into the heart of Sonora Town northwest of the Plaza and technically speaking overshooting the Bamba Club on North Spring Street because the Bamba Club has no parking, no parking lot and no adjacent parking, so they had to overshoot and here, just after Siodmak's name has faded, they're about to dissolve and come back up in that parking lot right down there and into a heated embrace between our leads. This opening is certainly one of the all-time great establishing shots.




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (2)


And as with so much noir, we have the flashback...Here we have Steve Thompson (Burt Lancaster) coming home after a long time away, the streetcar just closing its doors, the step still folding back up, the coat of a boarding passenger still flying from the middle door as he or she steps aboard and looks for a seat. Steve has come home to 215 North Hill Street, the big white house right there over the top of the streetcar, and is smiling at familiar surroundings. He's going to cross in front for the streetcar and go up that hill and back to his old life or maybe just what's left of his old life. Here in the sunlight he's smiling. Yeah, here in the sunlight.




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (3)


Finding no one home and unable to hook up with his childhood friend Pete, now an LAPD Detective, he finds himself being drawn to the old haunts, looking for some of 'the old gang' all the while secretly hoping to find her. But here at the Round-Up he finds only strangers, Frank the bartender (Percy Helton in a signature role) instead of Harry the bartender, an end-of-the-bar drinker (Joan Miller, maybe overqualified for this but turns it into a little jewel of a performance), some assorted townies and layabouts and an empty dance floor. Yeah, an empty dance floor.




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (4)


An empty dance floor...and a telephone booth...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (5)


Later that night he goes back, the end-of-the-bar drinker is still there and Frank is still there pouring and yakking, but now the place is jumpin', there's clinking glasses and laughter and music, loud and pulsing music, and dancing...and music...and dancing...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (6)


And her, she's here too, Anna (Yvonne De Carlo, late of the Florentine Gardens), dancing with a stranger (Tony Curtis in a bravura debut), insouciant, twisting, cloying, flirting, embracing, pouting, smoldering...Steve stands at a distance and watches her across the crowded dance floor...he watches and the vortex opens slowly and he is pulled inexorably in...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (7)


They meet, of course, and they fight, of course, and she leaves wounded but not without a backward glance to seal the deal...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (8)


Fate firmly in command, their paths cross, there is no escape...'It was all finished, water over the dam...only it wasn't, you know how it is, you don't know what to do with yourself, you want to travel, get away, anywhere, everyplace you go you see her face, half the girls you pass are her, has it ever happened to you?...if I hadn't been hanging around the Union Station, if the clerk hadn't picked that moment to run out of cigarettes...'




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (9)


He watches her as she heads for the cab stand, Vincent in the Lincoln convertible on the left, headed for Vegas to meet Slim. He watches her as she crosses to the cab stand and he knows he's in for the long haul...





Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (10)


Believing Slim is still out of town she drives up to Steve's house on North Hill and waits till his mother and her friend leave to go shopping...




Criss Cross (Unversal-International, 1949) (11)


Swept up in the planning of an armored car robbery, they steal a minute to reassure each other under the noses of the gang in the other room...





Steven McNally, Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949)


The stick-up goes predictably bad, maybe worse, Pop is dead, Steve in a hospital bed and body cast and Pete Ramirez waits, he can see the whole thing, every bit of it...and he can't do a thing about it...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (12)


Steve is kidnapped from the hospital by a thug working for Slim. Steve pleads and negotiates with him to let him go, to take him to Anna instead of to Slim, that he'll give him $10,000 dollars if he'll just take him to Anna...





Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (13)


Delivered to Anna's hideout, Steve believes they're safe, that he's done a good thing, that now they can be together, but Anna knows better...Anna knows...better...there is the sound of a car, headlights streak across the wall...a car door slams...




Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (14)


And fate walks in, a slender man with a limp and a .38.

cue the Rózsa...fade to black...

Finis


And did you see it? Did you see the structural anomaly, the prop that appeared twice when it should have only appeared once. The first time it showed up it shouldn't have been there at all.


Consider this beautiful shot of Lancaster and the house and street car again. An iconic shot by many measures, certainly in these parts a revered image. As well it should be. It is the kind of shot really fine directors put together to convey lots of information on several levels...It sets in motion the whole flashback...



Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (2)



Now consider this shot of De Carlo again, driving up to Steve's house and having to wait in her car for his mother to clear the neighborhood...



Criss Cross (Universal-International, 1949) (10)



See it yet? Look at the Lancaster shot again.
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  #14274  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 2:51 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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e_r and MR, you two are too good. 19 minutes and 17 minutes! I am demolished. I should have known you'd have it in a snap.

May I mention that the original adobe structure was built in 1854 by a French sailor, based on round homes he had seen in North Africa (take that Irving Gill), far out in the suburban boonies. From 1856 the building was owned by German immigrant George Lehman who encased it in a clapboard-clad timber frame, expanding the diameter by 20'. It was the center of Lehman's beer garden, The Garden of Paradise. He charged admission to the beautiful grounds and sold beer and pretzels. There was a flying-horses frame (merry-go-round) for children, appropriate Eden-themed statuary and a band. It was extremely popular. LA's official Centennial celebration was held here 4 July 1876.

Poor "Dutch" (Deutch) George did indeed go broke in '79. Along with his other holdings he had purchased frontage on 5th Street, at the Olive end of the block from the Hazard-Taft family to build a splendid all-purpose venue for his beloved adopted city (he literally thought LA was the Garden of Eden. He had regular visions and hallucinations of all sorts). Henry T Hazard regained the 5th St lot and made George's dream come true by building Hazard's Pavilion.

George Lehman is probably most famous for being the first to plant trees in Los Angeles Park/Pershing Square. He hand-carried water to irrigate the trees until he died in 1882. Many people thought he owned the land or had donated it to the city, but he really just wanted to make it beautiful for everyone.

After Lehman's ownership the Roundhouse was a school, then a lodging house and was finally abandoned and filled up with squatters. It was demolished in 1889.

There was a brick home next to the Roundhouse.I'm going to assume (although I seem to be assuming rather a lot lately) that the first brick building was the original wing of the Downey residence, south of the Roundhouse.

At least we've still got the Van Nuys/Barclay (speaking of Irving Gill) and the Douglas Block.

Some African inspiration for Monsieur Alexander's two-story effort:

More here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundhouse_(dwelling)

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 27, 2015 at 7:55 PM. Reason: fix links and correction
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  #14275  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 3:04 AM
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Her car. It's in both shots.

Round houses were popular around the 1840s to about 1860. Not many were built though and very few originals from that time have survived.
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  #14276  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 4:05 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Her car. It's in both shots.

Round houses were popular around the 1840s to about 1860. Not many were built though and very few originals from that time have survived.
Well done Matthew. I had to sit on my hands as someone pointed that out to me years ago. I didn't notice it myself. As GW said, there's nothing like a cream-colored convertible.

Still, I got to enjoy the small earthquake. These little rumbling ones fill me with such affection for my hometown. http://xkcd.com/723/


Are there some surviving round houses in LA? Where?
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  #14277  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 4:20 AM
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I'm posting from memory. My books were packed away when Lauren moved-in last year. I'm not sure where they are now. I studied residential architecture about 10 years ago. Round was seen as the perfect shape for a house among those who wanted to be different. Unfortunately, it was also a difficult shape to build at that time. Octagons were easier (popular in the 1850s - an example exists in San Francisco). Most of the rounded houses I'm aware of are in the northeast. Your example is a dodecagon. Close enough though.
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  #14278  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 4:35 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
I'm posting from memory. My books were packed away when Lauren moved-in last year. I'm not sure where they are now. I studied residential architecture about 10 years ago. Round was seen as the perfect shape for a house among those who wanted to be different. Unfortunately, it was also a difficult shape to build at that time. Octagons were easier (popular in the 1850s - an example exists in San Francisco). Most of the rounded houses I'm aware of are in the northeast. Your example is a dodecagon. Close enough though.
Thx. The original adobe house was round. The timber-framed remodel is not.

Walter Neff considered his inexpensive-to-build, dome-shaped "bubble" houses his most valuable contribution to architecture.
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  #14279  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 4:53 AM
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ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is offline
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Originally Posted by westcork View Post
Just stumbled upon this


LAPL








I wonder where this was taken?

ebay
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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 27, 2013 at 4:48 PM.
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  #14280  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2013, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
Her car.
Yep. Good Man, Mark. Her car. I always hesitate pointing these kinds of things out for fear of forever ruining an otherwise great movie. Hope you can look 'past' the mysterious car in the earlier shot and just enjoy the film.
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