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  #4521  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:33 PM
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Kenora already has a social crisis that is about the same as Thunder Bay, proportionally. It's been in the news a bit over the summer, since the province closed their only shelter back in August and forced dozens into the streets for a few weeks.

We need addiction and treatment services first. We have a lot of empty houses here, but they're all privately held, so we need to find a way to make them more accessible to people who need homes. Both will cost money and I don't think any amount of compassion is going to result in the government finding some. The city is too pre-occupied with its indoor tennis complex and the province is a dysfunctional basketcase.
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  #4522  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:38 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Kenora already has a social crisis that is about the same as Thunder Bay, proportionally. It's been in the news a bit over the summer, since the province closed their only shelter back in August and forced dozens into the streets for a few weeks.

We need addiction and treatment services first. We have a lot of empty houses here, but they're all privately held, so we need to find a way to make them more accessible to people who need homes. Both will cost money and I don't think any amount of compassion is going to result in the government finding some. The city is too pre-occupied with its indoor tennis complex and the province is a dysfunctional basketcase.
Your points are entirely legitimate here.

Where we may disagree is that I'm not prepared to settle for the status quo.

That begs the question of how to affect the desired change.

I think government and communities can be co-opted to support any number of things, the question is what will work here.
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  #4523  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:45 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Montreal at 17 after a fatal shooting last night. Took place around midnight at a "baby shower".
Why are people bringing guns to a baby shower?
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  #4524  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Why are people bringing guns to a baby shower?
Now the baby has been showered with trauma.
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  #4525  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Your points are entirely legitimate here.

Where we may disagree is that I'm not prepared to settle for the status quo.

That begs the question of how to affect the desired change.

I think government and communities can be co-opted to support any number of things, the question is what will work here.
I'm not prepared to settle for the status quo either but apparently that fact really agitates some people and I need to "be careful".
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  #4526  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Why are people bringing guns to a baby shower?
Damned good question.
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  #4527  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 5:58 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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I'm not prepared to settle for the status quo either but apparently that fact really agitates some people and I need to "be careful".
There are some you could not help but offend, I wouldn't spend any time concerning yourself over it.

But I do think its important to understand that at least some people with whom you may disagree, in whole or in part will need to be persuaded to join your cause in order to affect change.

Packaging what you have to say in a manner that is digestible at the minimum and ideally appealing to said group is not a requirement, but is advantageous.

Let me offer, that many right-wing populists like or liked the Ford family.

Clearly, the former Toronto mayor had addiction issues and ultimately sought treatment for them.

That should afford an avenue among those who might otherwise be indifferent or even adversarial to issues of First Nations rights to get behind better addiction treatment services to which First Nations members would have access.

In that case, you sell the program as something for the people of Kenora, not as something for First Nations members. It may disproportionately benefit the latter; but the fact it may also benefit the former may be the more persuasive argument, in certain contexts.

Likewise, you might note that greater level of treatment with even moderate success would likely reduce crime, thus reducing worry/fear, losses and insurance premiums.

That the primary argument should be about helping those in need is irrelevant; if arguing in the latter fashion gets the people who need it, the help they require.

Nothing in the arguments above changes facts on the ground; what it does is seek to persuade others, to support the actions, that will change results on the ground.

Its about speaking to people where they are; not where you wish they were.

So you can affect the change that's needed.
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  #4528  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Your points are entirely legitimate here.

Where we may disagree is that I'm not prepared to settle for the status quo.

That begs the question of how to affect the desired change.

I think government and communities can be co-opted to support any number of things, the question is what will work here.
Co-opted by whom?
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  #4529  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Co-opted by whom?
A general note here that I'm not using coopt in a negative way; I'm suggesting that one can get another person/community/government/business to help you achieve your goal but it cause it/they believe they are achieving their own goal at the same time.

In that context, I'm talking about getting communities which may not be particularly enthusiastic about causes which assist/help First Nations to back those things because it works out well for them to do so.

You do that shifting how you 'sell' an idea.

The new hospital with in-patient addiction/mental health supports is no longer about helping First Nations, its about helping locals; and reducing crime.

If, in point of fact its the same damned service which still helps those who need it, who cares how you sell it?

Get the locals and the power structure to back something for their own reasons that just happens to do good things for a different group at the same time.

This isn't unique to issues of ethnicity/culture; but applies when you change the argument about environmental sustainability to one that saves money by way of energy efficiency, water efficiency or less waste to be disposed of.

Same damn thing....but instead of arguing moral merit, you argue self-interest of the group who you need to support change.

Let me offer an on-point one to this discussion.

Cash-bail is a serious problem in Ontario (and elsewhere), in that it penalizes, indeed jails people before they've been convicted of anything; not on the basis of being a danger to society, but on the basis of poverty.

This happens to disproportionately penalize First Nations members.

But if you make the argument for reform centred on race, you bait a response about 'special treatment'; if you make it about 'poverty' you risk the same; but if you point out how much the state would save in money......that argument will reach a lot of people; so will the idea of focusing detention resources on those who ARE a danger to society, convicted, violent offenders.

Make the argument that appeals to your audience and get them to support the right thing; not for the wrong reason, but for a right reason that works for them.
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  #4530  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2019, 2:25 AM
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So we are now at 20. Someone was stabbed in an elevator in a high-rise tower Friday. Guy was charged with 2 ND degree murder this morning . There were 2 other suspicious deaths this week but it appears now to be overdoses.
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  #4531  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2019, 4:23 PM
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So we are now at 20. Someone was stabbed in an elevator in a high-rise tower Friday. Guy was charged with 2 ND degree murder this morning . There were 2 other suspicious deaths this week but it appears now to be overdoses.
Correction we are at 22, the Homicide map was updated.
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  #4532  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 9:15 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Montreal has 18 after a shooting in a hotel west of downtown. There has been a spate of shootings over the past week which coincides with the 30th anniversary of Canadas worse mass murder. The mayor is once again calling for more gun control. What would she say if it was as bad here as in Toronto?
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  #4533  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 10:37 PM
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Jonathan Henoche's jailhouse death was a homicide, rules coroner

The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary is investigating Jonathan Henoche's death as a homicide.

Police responded to Her Majesty's Penitentiary on Nov. 6 to reports of the death of a 33-year-old man. Sources say he was in a violent altercation with correctional officers.

Henoche was in jail awaiting trial for the murder of Regula Schule in Happy Valley-Goose Bay in July 2016.

He was being represented by lawyer Bob Buckingham, who remembered him as an unlikely champion for people living with fetal alcohol syndrome. He said Henoche struggled with the disorder, but was looking forward to his trial and moving forward with his life.

Buckingham has called for an inquiry into his client's death behind the walls of the prison....
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...-rnc-1.5384617

St. John's at 4 after the death of an inmate at Her Majesty's Penitentiary was ruled a homicide. It's likely that it was at the hands of a correctional officer and not another inmate
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  #4534  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 3:23 PM
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The Polytechnique massacre was 30 years ago today. My social media accounts are filled with recollections of where people were and how they reacted when they got the news.

I am always moved and troubled by this anniversary. It's been like this every year since.
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  #4535  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 4:07 PM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
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nevermind, fuck head killed himself.
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  #4536  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM
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Where is that piece of shit terrorist who did this now?
He killed himself right after he finished shooting all those girls.
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  #4537  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 4:10 PM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
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He killed himself right after he finished shooting all those girls.
I hate scum bags like that. They don’t deserve the easy way out.
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  #4538  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 4:14 PM
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I hate scum bags like that. They don’t deserve the easy way out.
It literally makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. And that's not something I say very often.
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  #4539  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2019, 2:03 PM
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https://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...north-york/amp

A shooting occurred on Highway 400 south yesterday. 3 people were shot including the driver of one of the vehicles. While the driver and the other victim will survive, the third one has deceased in the hospital...

How many is GTA at now?
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  #4540  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
https://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...north-york/amp

A shooting occurred on Highway 400 south yesterday. 3 people were shot including the driver of one of the vehicles. While the driver and the other victim will survive, the third one has deceased in the hospital...

How many is GTA at now?
Probably between 125 and 150.
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