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  #181  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2008, 8:31 PM
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Hopefully "The SF Mart Project" will include a really great anchor store(s), that will bring in a lot of foot traffic and influence other "quality" stores to open up in the area.

What I really hope to see happen as a result of more street life is something like this at Civic Center Plaza:



Source: http://www.smwm.com/index.php?p=project&id=56&pgid=5
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  #182  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2008, 9:28 PM
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^^^in 1818 Nathan too was elevated.
I stand corrected. "The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" is specially true if you also receive news of the outcome of Waterloo by means of messenger pigeons before anyone else in the financial markets.
     
     
  #183  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2008, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by nequidnimis View Post
I stand corrected. "The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets" is specially true if you also receive news of the outcome of Waterloo by means of messenger pigeons before anyone else in the financial markets.
thats right, rothschild was able to basically buy out all of england

but lets get back to topic....
     
     
  #184  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2008, 1:04 AM
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Originally Posted by San Frangelino View Post
Hopefully "The SF Mart Project" will include a really great anchor store(s), that will bring in a lot of foot traffic and influence other "quality" stores to open up in the area.

What I really hope to see happen as a result of more street life is something like this at Civic Center Plaza:



Source: http://www.smwm.com/index.php?p=project&id=56&pgid=5
They'll never do that. All that shrubbery would be like Union Square before the renovation--hidey holes for homeless campers (and a perfect place to relieve oneself)

By the way--as far as "quality stores"--I'm still just hoping for a Target on Mid-Market some year SOON.
     
     
  #185  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2008, 8:39 AM
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We do need more trees in the area. It would be an improvement to the entire downtown, tenderloin, civic/van ness areas to create an entire downtown with a tree canopy like downtown Sacramento.
     
     
  #186  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2008, 4:24 AM
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We do need more trees in the area. It would be an improvement to the entire downtown, tenderloin, civic/van ness areas to create an entire downtown with a tree canopy like downtown Sacramento.
Downtown Sacramento doesn't have a tree canopy--Midtown, East Sac, Land Park, etc. have the tree canopy. Those are mostly residential areas. I cannot think of any CBD that has a tree canopy.
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  #187  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2008, 7:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
I cannot think of any CBD that has a tree canopy.
I'm not sure what counts as a "canopy" but the New Orleans CBD has a fair number of trees as seen here:


Source: http://www.city-data.com/forum/louis...s-11-25-a.html
     
     
  #188  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2008, 5:09 PM
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More trees at the edge of the Civic Center Plaza would definitely be welcome. There are no trees currently at the edge, just angled parking. The side streets could definitely use more trees as well. The city now faces a budget crisis, so it probably won't happen in the near future, but I wish the Mayor had done more tree planting while the coffers were full. Perhaps this should be in a separate thread, but would anyone like to share what they consider Mayor Newsom's most significant imprint on the city?
     
     
  #189  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2008, 6:10 PM
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^^^The city has never done a lot of tree planting outside of parks. Most of the newly planted trees you see on the street were planted by Friends of the Urban Forest: http://www.fuf.net/index.html , another of those volunteer groups like Market Street Railway that actually does the work the city's highly paid staff doesn't or won't do. The city does give them some money to do the planting, though, and they could always use more (if anybody wants to donate).

The problem, from my perspective, is not that a lot of trees don't get planted but that the life of a street tree in SF is, as someone once said about another subject, "nasty, brutish and short". Aside from the harsh wind, lack of rainfall from May through October and general city conditions, there are far too many vandals who seem to delight in snapping off newly planted saplings and/or pushing them over. I guess it's the way they prove their manhood.

One thing the city does do is mandate the species to plant on many streets and I think their notions are way off base. The species they seem to love (or did--recent planting suggest they are accepting reality) is the London Plane Tree or sycamore:


Source: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...&ct=image&cd=3

That's what you see up and down Market St, ravaged by the wind and dry conditions. The city apparently likes them because they do tolerate city air pollution and soot in places like damp London, but to me they all look unhealthy in Mediterranean San Francisco (check out how much healthier they look out in the East Bay sometime). There are species that do so much better here like whatever those things are they just planted around The Infinity.
     
     
  #190  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTinSF
The problem, from my perspective, is not that a lot of trees don't get planted but that the life of a street tree in SF is, as someone once said about another subject, "nasty, brutish and short". Aside from the harsh wind, lack of rainfall from May through October and general city conditions, there are far too many vandals who seem to delight in snapping off newly planted saplings and/or pushing them over. I guess it's the way they prove their manhood.

One thing the city does do is mandate the species to plant on many streets and I think their notions are way off base. The species they seem to love (or did--recent planting suggest they are accepting reality) is the London Plane Tree or sycamore. That's what you see up and down Market St, ravaged by the wind and dry conditions. The city apparently likes them because they do tolerate city air pollution and soot in places like damp London, but to me they all look unhealthy in Mediterranean San Francisco (check out how much healthier they look out in the East Bay sometime). There are species that do so much better here like whatever those things are they just planted around The Infinity.
Well stated BT. I'm a member of FUF and have been wondering for ages when the City would wake up and abandon its love affair with the Plane Trees. A number of other species do quite well here--look at Franklin Street north of Market through the Civic Center as an example of that. It slayed me that when upper Market (above Van Ness) was belatedly redone, they cut down healthy big trees in some areas to plant trees that matched the sickly ones on lower Market. I thought at the time that it was positively stupid and feel justified with that opinion when I look at the same places today.
     
     
  #191  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 6:23 AM
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^^^When Opera Plaza was built in 1982, the developer planted eucalyptus on all 4 sides of the building. The city came along and said their "tree plan" (or whatever its called) said we had to have Plane Trees on Van Ness so they dug up the eucalyptus (and replanted them in the median of the block between Eddy and Turk). The eucalyptus on the other 3 sides of the building have matured and grown nicely--yeah, they're nasty trees but they survive anywhere and have nice red flowers in spring. The Plane Trees all died, so we planted more--and more and more. After about three dead trees per planting space, we convinced the city to let us plant the same species they planted at The Infinity and now, after about a decade, they too are maturing into nice looking trees.

By the way, one of the two times I've ever gone to City Hall to fight anything was when Vivande Ristorante wanted to cut down 2 of the eucalyptus because they claimed the trees obscured their signage (even though the trees were there when they moved in and put up the signs)--the other was when somebody wanted to open one more fast food joint on Van Ness between Ellis and Golden Gate as if Mickey D's, BK, Round Table Pizza and Taco Bell weren't enough. We (the residents) won and the trees remain to this day (we blocked the fast food joint too).
     
     
  #192  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 8:34 PM
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I am wondering if California sycamores, which are also plane trees, but native and drought tolerant, would fare better: http://www.cal-ipc.org/landscaping/d...cal&type=Trees
     
     
  #193  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 10:29 PM
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You would think so, since it's a native. The Fern Pine (right below it on that page) might be another good alternative.
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  #194  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 4:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
I cannot think of any CBD that has a tree canopy.
Much of Portland's CBD includes a tree canopy.

In a view that may be unpopular here, I think that having lots of trees often leaves the streets feeling dark and uninviting, and detracts from the vibrancy one would otherwise expect to experience in a CBD.

     
     
  #195  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nequidnimis View Post
I am wondering if California sycamores, which are also plane trees, but native and drought tolerant, would fare better: http://www.cal-ipc.org/landscaping/d...cal&type=Trees
This link is to a list for Southern California trees--we'd do better to plant trees that do well in Northern California or Mediterranean climates.
     
     
  #196  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PBuchman View Post
I think that having lots of trees often leaves the streets feeling dark and uninviting, and detracts from the vibrancy one would otherwise expect to experience in a CBD.
We are so far off-topic . . . .

But your point may be true about a CBD. I don't know--maybe I'm too much of a tree-lover to be objective. I think it comes from being basically an Easterner and in the hot, steamy southeast, trees are nearly always welcome. But even in "cool, gray" San Francisco, Noe Street between Market and Duboce doesn't feel "dark and uninviting" to me.
     
     
  #197  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
This link is to a list for Southern California trees--we'd do better to plant trees that do well in Northern California or Mediterranean climates.
It says of the California sycamore: "Can be found growing wild throughout California."
     
     
  #198  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2008, 4:02 PM
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I remember when they re-didi upper market - theres what an uproar about putting int he palm trees - every one thought it was too "LA" really thought redwoods would have been better - but the palms look good on upper market and embarcadero. (Rohnert Park has planted redwoods everywhere and they also look great along highway 17 through los gatos area)
The trees on lower market are so dull. and If there are trees on van ness they must be really un inspiring because I never even notice they are there.
Once they start the Van Ness BRT project it will be an opportunity to redesign Van Ness entirely.

What kind of trees soften the noise? trees on both side and down the median could creat a canopy on ven ness --- I do recall braodway through downtown Oakland has a nice tree'd area.
     
     
  #199  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2008, 4:23 PM
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pics

I put three new pics of trinity construction here:

http://web.mac.com/jtatarazuk/iWeb/Site/Photos%202.html

Looks like they have poured some concrete and are making good progress on the foundation. Can't wait to see the structure start going up.
If someone can post the pics that would be great.
     
     
  #200  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2008, 5:15 PM
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