DENVER | Transportation Thread

[ddvmke]

Originally Posted by Scottk

1500 weekly riders? Is this in both directions or only 1 way?

If my math is correct this means there is roughly an average of 10 riders per train.


Why even bother building this line if it only goes to Westminster?

Based on other publications, I believe this should say weekDAY riders, not weekLY riders*

[The Dirt]

Meaning 750 unique riders.

[TakeFive]

Example Number Three (Southeast Michigan)

RTA or Regional Transit Authority covers the southeast Michigan counties of Macomb, Oakland, Washtenaw and Wayne which includes Detroit and Ann Arbor.

What transportation is being proposed?
According to Michigan Radio, By MICHAEL SCHRAMM • OCT 22, 2016 (and other sources)

The Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan is seeking funding to implement various transportation services in and between these counties.

Projected Revenue and Investment

• Property taxpayers in the four counties will pay $1.20 per every $1,000 of taxable value for 20 years beginning in 2016 and ending in 2035.
• It is expected that $3.1 billion would be generated from this tax over 20 years and would be used to leverage an additional $1.6 billion of funding from
  state and federal funds for capital projects.

What It Buys

• Regional Rail: rail lines intended to connect riders to and from work including a rail line between Ann Arbor and Detroit
• Bus Rapid Transit: busses operating in key regional areas.
• Commuter Express: weekday rush-hour busses connecting workers to employment centers.
• Cross-County Connectors: "regional bus services which will allow people to easily travel through the region." Unlike Bus Rapid Transit, these busses travel in mixed traffic and would be "more reliable than local bus service."
• Airport Express: busses connecting residents to the Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
• Streetcar: a modern, hybrid-electrified rail service connecting downtown Detroit, Midtown and New Center

[retefio]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I went to the Denver Moves meeting a couple of weeks ago. If my input and the input of other participants has any weight, you should see the following:
1) Colfax Streetcar (downtown to Fitz)
...

Is the Colfax Streetcar still a viable possibility? I've been following this casually (that is, not too closely) for a while and I thought that the city decided on BRT down Colfax.

I would be overjoyed to hear the Colfax Streetcar could still happen.

[TakeFive]

Example Number Four (New Jersey)

Christie signs $16B infrastructure plan, raising gas tax 23 cents
By RYAN HUTCHINS 10/14/16 - Politico

Gov. Chris Christie on Friday signed New Jersey’s first gas tax increase in nearly three decades, delivering a $16 billion infrastructure spending plan and ending nearly four months of economic tumult.

It's hard to decipher which state, New Jersey or Illinois is more dysfunctional.

The hike, combined with new charges on diesel fuel, will raise an additional $1.2 billion in revenue over the current gas tax. It will allow the state to replenish its Transportation Trust Fund, which became insolvent in July after years of mismanagement under numerous governors. The new revenue will be combined with additional borrowing to provide $2 billion in state transportation spending each year for the next eight years.

Note: This "political breakthrough" (which can be used for both roads and transit) must still be ratified by the voters on 8th of November.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Example Number Three (Southeast Michigan)

For drawing talent to region, transit beats trotting the globe
October 16, 2016 by MARY KRAMER - Inside Detroit Business/Crain's Detroit

If voters in four Southeast Michigan counties approve a new property tax Nov. 8 to fund a network for public transportation in our region, we will finally shed our reputation as a backwater of transit.

Whooaa, like Denver maybe?

For the life of me, I don't understand why local political leaders aren't out there beating the drum for this millage because it's an economic development tool. They trot the globe trolling for new jobs for the region, but they won't invest in something that will help local employers already here find the workers who need jobs. And if Denver is any model, the system could actually attract new talent to the region.

Denver voters approved a sales tax increase for a seven-county region more than a decade ago, covering bus rapid transit and light rail. The price tag: $4.7 billion.

Earlier this year, The New York Times reported that an analysis of population movement by the Brookings Institution showed that Denver had the highest net annual migration of millennials of any city in the country from 2009-14.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

For drawing talent to region, transit beats trotting the globe
October 16, 2016 by MARY KRAMER - Inside Detroit Business/Crain's Detroit

Whooaa, like Denver maybe?

Yeah, but moving to Denver is cool. Moving to SE Michigan?

[TakeFive]

The growth continues...

Photo credit: Chelsea Self / Post Independent

Long-range Bustang plans boost Rifle roundabout
October 31, 2016 by Ryan Hoffman - Post Independent | Glenwood Springs and Rifle CO.

Rifle might be getting its long-planned roundabout just north of Interstate 70 sooner than anticipated thanks to Bustang, the regional state-run transit service.

Thank you CDOT

...recent conversations with the Colorado Department of Transportation moved those plans ahead in the project pecking order.
Specifically, CDOT allocated $2 million to help construct a park-and-ride that has been included in the overall roundabout project.

Next stop Grand Junction?

Although the park-and-ride would serve several benefits, including being used for the Roaring Fork Transportation Authority’s Hogback route, the ultimate hope is to use it as a stop for a future expansion of the popular Bustang service to Grand Junction, according to Mark Imhoff, transit and rail director for CDOT.

[DUPio]

RTD has an article about how CU will offer a shuttle to and from the Fitzsimons station.

Do they have any definite plans for redevelopment of that golf course? I know they overestimated the amount of space they needed for Bioscience redevelopment and knowing Aurora they will replace it with something low density. It just seems like an incredibly inefficient and expensive mistake to have a station on Fitzsimons parkway. How many people are going to hassle with two transfers that still require a 5 minute walk to work at the final stop? Even during rush hour it would save me ~15 minutes to drive, and thats assuming everything runs on time and transfers require minimal time.

[trubador]

Originally Posted by DUPio

RTD has an article about how CU will offer a shuttle to and from the Fitzsimons station.

Do they have any definite plans for redevelopment of that golf course? I know they overestimated the amount of space they needed for Bioscience redevelopment and knowing Aurora they will replace it with something low density. It just seems like an incredibly inefficient and expensive mistake to have a station on Fitzsimons parkway. How many people are going to hassle with two transfers that still require a 5 minute walk to work at the final stop? Even during rush hour it would save me ~15 minutes to drive, and thats assuming everything runs on time and transfers require minimal time.

I thought they had plans to close down the golf course and build a housing development.

http://www.denverpost.com/2014/09/03...pus-in-motion/

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/f...e-golf-course/

[TakeFive]

Just for grins I'll predict Seattle's ST3 and New Jersey's gas tax will pass while San Diego's Measure A and Southeast Michigan's RTA proposal do not pass.
I'll be reporting in real time (ofc I will).

[TakeFive]

Example Number One - Seattle
Sound Transit 3 has passed with 55 percent of the vote.

Seattle is ideal for transit for a number of reasons. Foremost is the kind of growing density that makes transit "textbook" qualified. Add in a booming economy which is always a good time to get something like Sound Transit 3 approved.

Example Number Two - San Diego
SANDAG Measure A did NOT pass although it did receive 57 percent approval.

Stupid politics. No, not today's politics but yesterdays conservative wave that succeeded in requiring tax increases to receive a super-majority of 66 percent to pass. Hard to even accomplish anything constructive with that kind of requirement.

Example Number Three - Southeast Michigan
The RTA transit proposal did NOT pass.

This vote was close and three of the four counties voted to approve but one county voted negative by a hefty margin which killed this transit attempt.

Example Number Four - New Jersey
The gas tax increase was ratified by voters.

The heavy lifting had been done in the legislature but voters needed to approve a constitutional change to make it legal.

Comment: Seattle may be an aspirational example but I suspect it's wishful thinking that Denver could pass something comparable. ST3 was a regional proposal btw. I've got one more "example" coming before coming up with the solution to Denver's needs. All examples provide ideas and clues for what Denver should propose to voters.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by DUPio

RTD has an article about how CU will offer a shuttle to and from the Fitzsimons station.

Do they have any definite plans for redevelopment of that golf course? I know they overestimated the amount of space they needed for Bioscience redevelopment and knowing Aurora they will replace it with something low density. It just seems like an incredibly inefficient and expensive mistake to have a station on Fitzsimons parkway. How many people are going to hassle with two transfers that still require a 5 minute walk to work at the final stop? Even during rush hour it would save me ~15 minutes to drive, and thats assuming everything runs on time and transfers require minimal time.

Agreed, that station looks really inconvenient. Perhaps convenient for coyotes to hop aboard.

Another thing that looks inconvenient is the station up on the bridge over Colfax. Looks cool, but you have to take an elevator or lots of stairs. And then there is on park and ride here, that I see. So the only real access to it is by shuttle? Or drop-off?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Agreed, that station looks really inconvenient. Perhaps convenient for coyotes to hop aboard.

Another thing that looks inconvenient is the station up on the bridge over Colfax. Looks cool, but you have to take an elevator or lots of stairs. And then there is on park and ride here, that I see. So the only real access to it is by shuttle? Or drop-off?

Is there anything convenient about the R Line? It's design is even worse then the W Line in terms of tight tight radii. At least the W Line can be sped up by removing politically driven speed restrictions, there's no hope for that on the R Line.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Agreed, that station looks really inconvenient. Perhaps convenient for coyotes to hop aboard.

Another thing that looks inconvenient is the station up on the bridge over Colfax. Looks cool, but you have to take an elevator or lots of stairs. And then there is on park and ride here, that I see. So the only real access to it is by shuttle? Or drop-off?

Are you talking about this dandy station?


Images courtesy: RTD/FasTracks


Try using a modicum of imagination and you can see all the bustling foot traffic AFTER TOD. And if you're coming from Stapleton or even DIA with Anschutz as your destination then this is your next stop.


Images courtesy: RTD/FasTracks

As DUPio mentioned CU will be providing free shuttle service and according to RTD/Fastracks:

Buses will operate seven days per week between the hours of 5:30 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. It will have stops at these locations:

• East 17th Place
• East 17th Avenue
• Montview Boulevard

Shuttles will be timed to meet the light rail trains at Fitzsimons Station. The average route time is less than fifteen minutes.

Some may not yet realize it but RTD/Fastracks is a First Class operation.

[Denverite]

Could someone explain what the heck is going on with CDOT shortfalls? Why is it always so broke? I don't understand. Colorado has one of the best economies in the country. Housing prices and sales are sky high, weed sales sky high, residential and commercial construction is sky high, tourism is sky high, net migration = more tax base, sky high job growth = more spending which = more taxes, property taxes have increased year over year, toll roads planned all over, yet CDOT is broke? And they penalize people who buy hybrids that want to be eco friendly and save money.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. Where is all their money going? Do other states do this?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.9news...?client=safari

[guppyflyer]

Originally Posted by Denverite

Could someone explain what the heck is going on with CDOT shortfalls? Why is it always so broke? I don't understand. Colorado has one of the best economies in the country. Housing prices and sales are sky high, weed sales sky high, residential and commercial construction is sky high, tourism is sky high, net migration = more tax base, sky high job growth = more spending which = more taxes, property taxes have increased year over year, toll roads planned all over, yet CDOT is broke? And they penalize people who buy hybrids that want to be eco friendly and save money.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. Where is all their money going? Do other states do this?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.9news...?client=safari

Simple answer, the revenue stream that funds CDOT does not benefit from the sources you cite.



Thus improved efficiency has reduced revenues while use has increased. Hence, a shortfall and the desire for a usage tax vs a fuel tax (the road doesn't care if it's a hybrid or not):

[Denverite]

Can't CDOT raise the gas tax? Can CDOT simply impose this ridiculously unfair tax without a public vote? Do other states do this? How do they gather their data?

This really is BS. The math does not add up at all. This plan costs more for the people who have cleaner cars. Meanwhile people who drive Hummers get a freaking rebate!? That is insnae. It should be reversed, if anything. If you want to buy and drive a giant heavy truck that requires more fuel and thus more emissions, then you should be the one to pay more, not the people who are trying to be proactive about emissions and also try to save money. Not to mention a bigger truck causes far more wear on the roads than a Prius.

This is all sorts of dumb.

And really, what states do this? Many states have many hundreds miles more roads in smaller land area with many more bridges. I am unaware they have to penalize hybrids in order to make their budget. Plus, all our new highway expansions are toll roads. So we are paying on the front end and then on the back end for a lot of metro area freeways.

Something is just not right in this picture.

[Denverite]

And does anyone know if this means that the gas tax at the pump will be eliminated? In other words, will our gas at the pump be 40-cents/gal less?

[TakeFive]

Denverite... It's like "Where do I start?"

If CDOT could impose taxes chances are they wouldn't be in such a state of poverty.

Colorado is significantly hampered by TABOR. If you're unfamiliar with the TABOR Amendment, I would recommend asking your BFF Google. One upshot is that essentially ALL tax increases in the state have to be approved by voters. That has led to a leadership vacuum.

Without both political parties getting together on a plan to take to voters to increase revenue for CDOT it won't and hasn't happened. For a current snapshot check out yesterday's DBJ article

With respect to your concern over a VMT tax - or vehicle miles traveled tax, this has been looked at by most of the states and at the Federal level. To date nobody has actually tried to implement something. CDOT is merely, as the article points out, doing a pilot study using volunteers.