The Brooklyn Factor - Page 6

softee · #**101** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

And yes, Montreal is Canada's urban masterpiece in terms of residential building stock, and the margin is similar to Toronto's lead in terms of skyscrapers and downtown grandeur.

Just as Montreal cannot offer this:

https://goo.gl/maps/hRUicuN7jbQw4Dd88

Toronto can't offer this:

https://goo.gl/maps/oCaGLX2tqPBAXCW4A

These are pretty close:

https://goo.gl/maps/VRZCZtgT37bnLLvE9
https://goo.gl/maps/zK5T3tt9Wq3DpQRw8
https://goo.gl/maps/7TLfLtwEuHq2yHf7A
https://goo.gl/maps/rRGaohBgnhf4db8ZA
https://goo.gl/maps/p2ZBKLukkC6xzq4P8

And some more hemmed-in streets:

https://goo.gl/maps/zfRp7D6dxUBib8Kp6
https://goo.gl/maps/z8e4pzVupJim2kEb6
https://goo.gl/maps/BWkKhrrrgBFj3ssk8
https://goo.gl/maps/5oEbTVYBSXmvPAKb9
https://goo.gl/maps/sPxKthsZsaA6StY28

And there are plenty more!

Segun · #**102** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 6:22 PM**

I might make another thread showing cities with commercial streets with 2-3 story buildings, forming the urban canyon effect.

MolsonExport · #**103** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 6:56 PM**

Montreal's lowrise, high density housing goes on for miles in every direction from the city centre. I have spent hundreds of days exploring the various streets, but there are still many more that I have yet to traipse down.

tripadvisor

pinimig

reddit

The foreground mostly shows wealthy Westmount, but it is the areas behind and north of the Mountain where the low-rise/high density urban fabric stretches for miles and miles.

overflightstock

iheartthed · #**104** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 6:59 PM**

^Looks like the aftermath of an asteroid strike.

MolsonExport · #**105** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 7:16 PM**

denuded of foliage, yes. in the summer, it looks more like a mountain (err, large hill as the summit is only 764ft/233m), and less like a crater (the centre being two giant cemeteries and Mt. Royal Park)

wiki

Martin Mtl · #**106** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

These are pretty close:

https://goo.gl/maps/VRZCZtgT37bnLLvE9
https://goo.gl/maps/zK5T3tt9Wq3DpQRw8
https://goo.gl/maps/7TLfLtwEuHq2yHf7A
https://goo.gl/maps/rRGaohBgnhf4db8ZA
https://goo.gl/maps/p2ZBKLukkC6xzq4P8

And some more hemmed-in streets:

https://goo.gl/maps/zfRp7D6dxUBib8Kp6
https://goo.gl/maps/z8e4pzVupJim2kEb6
https://goo.gl/maps/BWkKhrrrgBFj3ssk8
https://goo.gl/maps/5oEbTVYBSXmvPAKb9
https://goo.gl/maps/sPxKthsZsaA6StY28

And there are plenty more!

But these are like one block stretches, sometimes only on one side of the street.

kool maudit · #**107** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 7:34 PM**

Toronto is a wonderful, lively metropolis at a fascinating point in its history, but it just can't do what Montreal can in terms of prewar urban residential grace.

You know I love TO but this is just true.

lio45 · #**108** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189

But honestly, we should talk more about Montreal here in this forum. I still can't get over why it's not as well known in this forum as Toronto. It's clearly the most urban of the two.

? Montreal is super well known on SSP.

lio45 · #**109** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

Another one of Chicago, showing what a busier neighborhood away from the Loop looks like at ground level.

Source: Loop.Net

That looks great. (Both the urban fabric in the foreground and the impressive skyline in the distance.)

softee · #**110** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:39 PM**

I'm not disagreeing that Montreal's uniform looking plex neighbourhoods give the appearance of greater urbanity than Toronto's tightly packed neighbourhoods of rowhouses, semi-detached homes and detached houses all mixed up haphazardly together throughout the residential streets of the old city, but in terms of population density and overall feel, Toronto's old neighbourhoods are just as dense and functionally urban as Montreal's, especially when you include nearby pre-war neighbourhood commercial strips, which both cities have in abundance.

hipster duck · #**111** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189

I still can't get over why it's not as well known in this forum as Toronto. It's clearly the most urban of the two.

This might be the homer in me talking, but I wouldn't say it's clearly more urban than Toronto.

Montreal definitely has more ornate historical architecture than Toronto, and its dominant form of urban housing comes right up to the sidewalk and doesn't have gaps with the building next door - if that's your jam - but I don't think that translates to a city that is decidedly more vibrant, or one with more neighbourhoods that are walkable and have good drinking, dining and shopping options.

kool maudit · #**112** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:51 PM**

That's true. My most recent experience with both cities saw Toronto decisively take the W in urban vitality. But this IS about the ornate attached prewar walkups and their vibe. And Toronto's best in this department is... Beaver Hall Hill to Montreal's King and Bay. It's just how things are.

I mean, I think Amsterdam -- hell, maybe even Copenhagen -- is more vibrant than Vienna but you gotta respect those blocks. They are profoundly special even if they don't carry the day on their own.

There is just no getting around it.

Pedestrian · #**113** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

When I think of the most common type of walkable urbanity in US and Canada, I like to compare it to Brooklyn, meaning (architecture and design aside) you could place these neighborhoods adjacent to your average neighborhood in Brooklyn with no immediate discernable difference.

The Brooklyn factor is most found in large swaths of the city....

- outside downtown
- most predominantly filled with 3-4 story buildings
- with good amount of pedestrian traffic
- with a network of intersecting commercial streets

The Brooklyn factor is that feeling you get of being in the middle of the urban jungle, with a seamless stream of pedestrian activity from street to street, meaning you can wander in any direction and find it. Traffic usually follows, adding to the vibrancy of the street.

IMO, I think there are outliers, parts of Vancouver have commercial streets with 1 story buildings, with a mixture of high-rises and multi-family apartments, and the occasional single family home such as Robson street in the West End.

Examples of intersections that give you this feeling.

San Francisco - Mission & 16th
Toronto - Bloor & Spadina
Chicago - Diversey & Clark
Washington DC - 14th & U Street
Boston - Broadway & Dorchester
Montreal - St.Laurent & Mont Royal
Philadelphia - Broad & South
Vancouver - Main & Broadway

What are some other areas in the US and Canada that fit this category?

Interesting pick. 16th & Mission is probably SF's second most active drug bazaar (after UN Plaza) and what both have in common is sitting on top of BART stations give them quick, ready access to Oakland drug gangs.

Actually, I'd pick several other spots in SF before that one:

18th & Castro

https://www.ebar.com/news/latest_news//275677

24th & Castro

Google Streetview

16th & Valencia (not Mission)

Google Streetview

5th Ave. & Clement St

Google Streetview

Martin Mtl · #**114** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 9:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

I'm not disagreeing that Montreal's uniform looking plex neighbourhoods give the appearance of greater urbanity than Toronto's tightly packed neighbourhoods of rowhouses, semi-detached homes and detached houses all mixed up haphazardly together throughout the residential streets of the old city, but in terms of population density and overall feel, Toronto's old neighbourhoods are just as dense and functionally urban as Montreal's, especially when you include nearby pre-war neighbourhood commercial strips, which both cities have in abundance.

I totally agree.

Martin Mtl · #**115** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 9:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

This might be the homer in me talking, but I wouldn't say it's clearly more urban than Toronto.

Montreal definitely has more ornate historical architecture than Toronto, and its dominant form of urban housing comes right up to the sidewalk and doesn't have gaps with the building next door - if that's your jam - but I don't think that translates to a city that is decidedly more vibrant, or one with more neighbourhoods that are walkable and have good drinking, dining and shopping options.

That's not true, though. There are of course tons of houses build right up to the sidewalk, but it's inaccurate to say that it dominates. The dominant form is a triplex or a duplex with some form of front greenery, sometimes very lush. I mean you have to put all these outdoor stairs somewhere...

These would be typical Montreal residential streets:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.53632...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.53445...7i16384!8i8192

Segun · #**116** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 9:20 PM**

Montreal's streets are too tree-lined, and filled with patches of green to feel like Brooklyn though

If you're talking about vibe, this is very important. Something happens to the experience, when nature vies for attention with the built environment in the urban city. It's impossible to ignore. The more green space you add, the more rustic and wild it begins to feel, especially in Summer nights.

Montreal
https://goo.gl/maps/7X51cfZLEsuAaUfS9

Brooklyn
https://goo.gl/maps/vN6GD6em9nCzmbqv7

jd3189 · #**117** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

I'm not disagreeing that Montreal's uniform looking plex neighbourhoods give the appearance of greater urbanity than Toronto's tightly packed neighbourhoods of rowhouses, semi-detached homes and detached houses all mixed up haphazardly together throughout the residential streets of the old city, but in terms of population density and overall feel, Toronto's old neighbourhoods are just as dense and functionally urban as Montreal's, especially when you include nearby pre-war neighbourhood commercial strips, which both cities have in abundance.

I can agree I guess. Let's see some Toronto pics though so that we can compare.

jd3189 · #**118** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

? Montreal is super well known on SSP.

I suppose, but in City Discussions, Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, and even Winnipeg are brought up more than Montreal, at least over the past 10 years I've been around. But that's may just be me.

JManc · #**119** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

? Montreal is super well known on SSP.

It is and it isn't. Toronto and to a lesser extant Vancouver steal its thunder. It's a shame I lived so close to to Montreal and only went there a few times. Other than Houston, it was the closest major city I lived near.

homebucket · #**120** Posted **Aug 11, 2020, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189

I suppose, but in City Discussions, Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, and even Winnipeg are brought up more than Montreal, at least over the past 10 years I've been around. But that's may just be me.

I agree. In City Discussions, I feel like Toronto gets the most hype. Vancouver somewhat but not really, and Montreal even less. Maybe it's different in the Canadian subforums of SSP though, but I don't really go there. This thread probably contains the most I've seen of Montreal in the last 8 years.