[Saint John] 91 King Street | ?m | ?s | Site Prep

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

So Councilor Barry Ogden has responded to a comment today on Facebook mentioning the hole at the top of King Street. He said that the project will happen, progress is being made. Source: https://www.facebook.com/barry.ogden...43472918676198

Councilors have to be cheer leaders and relentlessly optimistic. I'll believe it when I see foundations being poured.

Also, from what I hear about ongoing issues with "The Wentworth" I'm not sure Percy Wilber is the guy to build an iconic and truly first class development in this prime location. Although, to be fair, maybe it was the contractors that let him down with The Wentworth.

[sailor734]

This was from a discussion in the Fundy Quay thread about the new renderings of building one. It occurred it has a lot to do with 91 King as well......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugsley View Post
Yeah, the renderings for 99 King (is that what it's called?) were very poorly done. But to be fair, the ones for Fundy Quay were a bit rough at first as well. If I owned 99 King, I'd be calling the firm that did these and say "hey, I have an ugly duckling that needs some wow factor, so I can get some investment...do your magic!"

I'm sure there'd be a flood of investment in 99 King is, as you said, it was a better looking project. Investors like to be inspired and sadly, renderings are extremely important for what the final vision is likely to be. Likely why this project is plowing ahead while 99 King is going nowhere.


Yeah, the renderings for King were amateurish at best and the design itself could only be described as somewhat "drab" to my mind. I know they were trying to tie the style to the rest of KIng Sq (Irving Oil building, Admiral Beatty and the Imperial) but to me they missed the mark.

Given it's prominent and commanding location I'm almost glad it didn't go ahead. You only get one chance to get it right. Hopefully whatever does go up there eventually will be a beautiful building with architectural interest.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

This was from a discussion in the Fundy Quay thread about the new renderings of building one. It occurred it has a lot to do with 91 King as well......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugsley View Post
Yeah, the renderings for 99 King (is that what it's called?) were very poorly done. But to be fair, the ones for Fundy Quay were a bit rough at first as well. If I owned 99 King, I'd be calling the firm that did these and say "hey, I have an ugly duckling that needs some wow factor, so I can get some investment...do your magic!"

I'm sure there'd be a flood of investment in 99 King is, as you said, it was a better looking project. Investors like to be inspired and sadly, renderings are extremely important for what the final vision is likely to be. Likely why this project is plowing ahead while 99 King is going nowhere.


Yeah, the renderings for King were amateurish at best and the design itself could only be described as somewhat "drab" to my mind. I know they were trying to tie the style to the rest of KIng Sq (Irving Oil building, Admiral Beatty and the Imperial) but to me they missed the mark.

Given it's prominent and commanding location I'm almost glad it didn't go ahead. You only get one chance to get it right. Hopefully whatever does go up there eventually will be a beautiful building with architectural interest.

You think Percy is going to pony up for a new set of designs? At best, maybe minor changes???

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

You think Percy is going to pony up for a new set of designs? At best, maybe minor changes???

Hate to say it but I think the best thing for Saint John is if Percy somehow loses it or is forced to sell. Of course that's only good if the new owner is a more well financed/better skilled developer with a desire to put up a showplace......so maybe the devil you know?

Either way the renderings from a few years ago left me cold as being boring, drab and uninspired.

[adamuptownsj]

For reference... https://www.country94.ca/2021/09/08/...9-king-street/

And the loss of bilateral funding to improve Charlotte and South Market: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...-lot-1.6909947

[Pugsley]

I saw this new mid-rise project in Toronto and thought...why not just copy it. Not the greatest, but certainly more interesting than the current design AND I don't think it would be any more to construct...

[sailor734]

Not bad. If nothing else it is head and shoulders above what is/was proposed for here in those renderings. So much better than a monolithic, institutional looking block! I really like the large outdoor terraces on the upper floors. Lot's of this style in Vancouver often with substantial greenery in planters ......great look.

Obviously works better for a condo where the owner can do this type of long term landscaping but it's still nice to have room for a cafe table and chairs along with a couple of lounges

Question for anyone with construction expertise.....are inset balconies easier/cheaper to build than those that protrude from the exterior wall ?

[sailor734]

I had occasion to park on King and walk to the Charlotte St entrance of the market today. 99 King is a disgrace! The fencing is rusted and falling over, many of the faded banners are hanging by one corner (or missing altogether), the walls of the pit have been hit with anti Israel/pro Palestine graffiti and there is gravel/rubble strewn around what used to be the sidewalk. It looks like something from the Bronx in New York's darkest days in the 1970's.

I get that the city has no power to force development but surely they can force a cleanup and a proper fence?

The fact that there was someone sleeping on the sidewalk (at 10:30AM) at the corner of King and Germain only added to the post apocalyptic atmosphere

[homebody]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I had occasion to park on King and walk to the Charlotte St entrance of the market today. 99 King is a disgrace! The fencing is rusted and falling over, many of the faded banners are hanging by one corner (or missing altogether), the walls of the pit have been hit with anti Israel/pro Palestine graffiti and there is gravel/rubble strewn around what used to be the sidewalk. It looks like something from the Bronx in New York's darkest days in the 1970's.

I get that the city has no power to force development but surely they can force a cleanup and a proper fence?

The fact that there was someone sleeping on the sidewalk (at 10:30AM) at the corner of King and Germain only added to the post apocalyptic atmosphere

Agreed! Something needs to be done. I thought not long ago there they said there would be some movement on 99 King. A councillor maybe?

[DyAm00394]

A bit of an update from the developer in a new CTV article about the Charlotte Street Reimagination project starting. He's committed to getting work started before the end of 2024 He is saying one of the biggest hold backs is the provincial government not removing or easing the PST like other provinces. If they did he would have shovels in the ground next month.

"Just beyond that intersection, city crews find themselves in a hold up with the former Woolworth’s site uptown still sitting as a giant hole almost three years after it was demolished.

“I think it’s a disgrace, it’s pitiful,” says resident Robert Fox on the status of the pit. “People come in on boats and stuff like that cruise ships and they look at that in the centre of the city, a hole with nothing there.”

“Something should change, someone needs to do something about it,” agreed high school students Kieran Kirkpatrick and Cameron Wilson. “It’s been here for way to long and they should take charge and do something about it.”

The pit is not only holding up parts of the Charlotte Street Reimagination Project, but also part of the city’s 10-year strategic plan for the Saint John City Market that would pedestrianize Market Street south.

Percy Wilbur is the developer for the site, and still plans to build an approximately 180 unit apartment complex that would have commercial outlets on the main floor.

If it were up to him, he says he would be ready to get shovels in the ground in the next month, but the biggest hold back in terms of starting work at this time is because of the provincial government.

“The federal government and the local municipality have bent over backwards to try and assist developers in creating incentives to sort out this housing shortage,” says Wilbur. “The New Brunswick government is not following suit with most of the other provincial governments in eliminating or easing the PST (provincial sales tax) portion for residential construction.”

Wilbur finds it puzzling the province won’t ease that amount, saying the province is collecting around $8,000 a year from a hole in the ground but it would be closed to half a million dollars once the building is up and running.

He remains committed to getting work started before the end of 2024.

“You just try your best,” says Wilbur on residents frustrated with the lack of progress. “If they don’t understand then that’s there issue not mine.”

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/work-on-...site-1.6823310

[adamuptownsj]

What's his excuse for the state of it, though? Can the city not put in a proper fence and bill him? You can have a pit or a vacant lot without it looking like a bad part of Caracas.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

What's his excuse for the state of it, though? Can the city not put in a proper fence and bill him? You can have a pit or a vacant lot without it looking like a bad part of Caracas.

That's my point too. Nobody can force development of the site but he should be required to tidy up the unsightly mess......and also, what gives him the right to occupy/block the public sidewalk along Charlotte and King on an ongoing basis?

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

A bit of an update from the developer in a new CTV article about the Charlotte Street Reimagination project starting. He's committed to getting work started before the end of 2024 He is saying one of the biggest hold backs is the provincial government not removing or easing the PST like other provinces. If they did he would have shovels in the ground next month.

“You just try your best,” says Wilbur on residents frustrated with the lack of progress. “If they don’t understand then that’s their issue not mine.”

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/work-on-...site-1.6823310

Seems odd to be so snarky about public complaints in your statement too.

[sailor734]

I think the PST comment is a red herring. There are multiple large building projects underway throughout the province. I’m assuming they are all paying tax. How are they able to proceed when Mr Wilber isn’t?

[JakeNB]

Percy’s lame excuse doesn’t hold water. He just doesn’t have the capital and goodwill in the construction industry to pull this off - after he stiffed so many contractors on the Wentworth project.

[sailor734]

Another media story about "The Hole"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rths-1.7176819

Sadly, I don't really think there is anything to be done to spur construction here short of city government forking out a bunch of money or signing an agreement to lease a bunch of office space......neither is likely (nor would it be a good idea)

What can the city do, if anything, to at least improve the site? Do they have the power to force site cleanup and/or sidewalk remediation? Could they force Wilber to put up a new fence that is on his property? (not on public sidewalks)

I wonder where the actual property lines are? The edge of the pit....or does Wilber actually own part of the sidewalk where the concrete barriers anchoring the wire fence are? What's normal uptown?

Second question is what's this fixation with commercial space on Wilbur's part? If there is such a critical shortage of housing why not just build 100% residential? Given demand wouldn't it be pretty much fully reserved when it opened?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Another media story about "The Hole"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rths-1.7176819

Sadly, I don't really think there is anything to be done to spur construction here short of city government forking out a bunch of money or signing an agreement to lease a bunch of office space......neither is likely (nor would it be a good idea)

What can the city do, if anything, to at least improve the site? Do they have the power to force site cleanup and/or sidewalk remediation? Could they force Wilber to put up a new fence that is on his property? (not on public sidewalks)

I wonder where the actual property lines are? The edge of the pit....or does Wilber actually own part of the sidewalk where the concrete barriers anchoring the wire fence are? What's normal uptown?

Second question is what's this fixation with commercial space on Wilbur's part? If there is such a critical shortage of housing why not just build 100% residential? Given demand wouldn't it be pretty much fully reserved when it opened?

My guess / theory is the actual problem is he can’t find a builder that will 1. Build it for the price he’s willing to pay; and 2. Willing to take the risk of not getting paid and/or dickering for a discount during the construction process. Percy’s pencil is too sharp for his own good. He tried to keep my relative’s damage deposit when they moved out claiming the apartment was left dirty when in fact it was spotless, even cleaner than it was when they moved in.

[sailor734]

I don’t know the whole story about the Wentworth but I have heard people say he burnt a few bridges within the construction industry.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I don’t know the whole story about the Wentworth but I have heard people say he burnt a few bridges within the construction industry.

Dynamited a few bridges is more like it.

[Helladog]

Is having Bottom floor tenants ready and committed really an issue when most of the building is residential? The Wellington was built without such a tenant ready as far as I know. When built I’m sure it would be a great spot for retail/commercial on the bottom, and someone would most likely bite. “Build it and they will come”.

It seems like there is a different excuse every time an article is published.