AUSTIN | ABIA Updates

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by JGFrisco

There is very little likelihood of Austin becoming a hub city, for numerous reasons.

1) The biggest is that there are two mega hubs very close by, at DFW and IAH.

2) Southwest already has two semi-hubs at Love Field (which will be open to the entire country, no Wright Amendment, in October), and at Hobby.

3) The Austin metro area develops only a medium level of passengers, and not a ton of tourists.

Hubs work on connecting traffic, and anyone connecting through this area would go AA or UA through DFW or Houston. A smaller airline can't remotely compete with those megahubs.

Smaller hubs are actually dying. From Memphis to St. Louis to Pittsburgh to Cleveland, they are closing up shop.

Ever spend 15 or more minutes taxiing at DFW or waiting for 10 or more minutes for your turn to take off at Chicago? As these huge and other hubs get more congested, more fuel is spent on the ground and more delays are bound to happen. Here's why I think Austin will someday become a hub for more than one airline...
less fuel cost taxiing, less congestion, 3rd runway planned, runways that can accommodate any size airplane, master plan for expansion in place, centrally located in US, decent weather,
great layover city if necessary, ( hubs aren't necessarily destination airports so I don't think that's an absolute qualifier), room for large airplane maintenance hangers, to name a few. That being said, I have absolutely no idea how airlines choose their hubs, but it seems to me ABIA is probably at least on some airline's radar as a future hub. Never say never.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by JGFrisco

There is very little likelihood of Austin becoming a hub city, for numerous reasons.

1) The biggest is that there are two mega hubs very close by, at DFW and IAH.

2) Southwest already has two semi-hubs at Love Field (which will be open to the entire country, no Wright Amendment, in October), and at Hobby.

3) The Austin metro area develops only a medium level of passengers, and not a ton of tourists.

Hubs work on connecting traffic, and anyone connecting through this area would go AA or UA through DFW or Houston. A smaller airline can't remotely compete with those megahubs.

Smaller hubs are actually dying. From Memphis to St. Louis to Pittsburgh to Cleveland, they are closing up shop.

Where are you basing you assumptions in Austin not developing more than a medium level with little tourists??? Do you not know anything at all about Austin because it's seems to me that you do not.

Let me educate you... Austin is at the top of the list in population growth and economic growth. That shows NO signs of changing any time soon. ABIA, is a major indicator of how fast this market is growing.

I'm assuming you know NOTHING of Austin's events and festivals so let me give you a little education on that as well... Tourism in Austin is skyrocketing. There is no doubt if you look at the hospitality and Hotel market. We are one of the ONLY cities in the nation that is seeing a large hotel construction boom, even an article in the New York Times points that out.
Austin is home to SXSW, which has become the largest music, film, tech, media ect. Cause the list keeps expanding every year. This year (which has been the case each year before) will be the largest with more applications submitted than ever before, so many that the city had to cut the submission date earlier than usual in order to assure the city's code, emergency services, and infrastructure can safely handle it. It is a truly international event with international media coverage. There will be several televised shows airing from here most notably Jimmy Kimmel's show for the entire week.

I've decided not to go in detail about all of the events because I just realized it would take way too long and I have not got the time today so to sum it up. I'm sure you have heard of Formula One, ACL, FUN FUN FUN FEST, countless other music events and festivals. Others to look forward do besides SXSW this spring are the Urban Music Fest, Raggae Fest, and for all you Dance/Electronica (EDM) fans, Euphoria Music Festival.

This year the Summer X Games will move to Austin from LA. MotoGP is in April. Of course I can't forget ACL fest as well as multiple events throughout the autumn. Republic of Texas Biker rally is pretty cool. If you haven't gone to see the parade to Congress Avenue it's pretty need seeing 50,000 motorcycles rolling in filling the entire length of Congress from the river to the Capitol.

There's so many more I don't have time to mention, the point I'm trying to make is Austin is becoming a major tourist destination. There is no doubt about that. So again I ask where you base your premise from?

[ATXboom]

[QUOTE=Plaid Shirts;6443486]When was the last time you recently saw at least two major trans-oceanic international airlines serving a mid sized U.S. city in the lower 48? I can't think of any. Korean Air isn't an airline that goes after cities such as Austin, Portland, Salt Lake City, etc. Korean Air serves cities like Seattle, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, etc.

Having Korean Air serve Austin is similar to having Korean Air serve Oakland. You already have Korean Air flying to San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas... all within an hour flight or a 30 minute drive from Oakland. As I already stated Korean Air already serves DFW and IAH. I wouldn't count on Asiana serving Austin as well.[/

By your logic Austin shouldn't have London service because of DFW and iah. But you missing the strategy behind the 787 Dreamliner. It's to open mid markets to direct trans continental flights. It's a game changer for the industry. Demand and service will be driven by business travelers. Over 2000 a day travel between Asia and Austin for business.

[Jdawgboy]

You know I happened to come across this article awhile back.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...op-4793581.php

What I noticed reading the article is an apparent arrogant bias towards Austin like how we could have managed a direct flight to London. The article goes as far as it was more of a push by the city Chamber of Commerce and even saying through a consulting firm San Antonio's airport hired claiming that Austin has inflated the reported daily passenger count flying to London. In other words they believe they should have gotten the flight.

I find it appalling to the point of hilarious that people would actually write articles like that. There is this sense of superiority that these people still feel about Austin despite the fact that we are no longer the small stepsister quaint quiet capital city they try to portray. BA would have not just decided to add a direct flight to Austin without research and market data. Austin has a larger international business travel market than many people realize, larger than many cities our size. Also despite what some article have added about the F1 track being a factor which it obviously is, you don't add a daily transatlantic flight for an event that takes place once a year.

Anyways I'm done with my rant lol.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

You know I happened to come across this article awhile back.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...op-4793581.php

What I noticed reading the article is an apparent arrogant bias towards Austin like how we could have managed a direct flight to London. The article goes as far as it was more of a push by the city Chamber of Commerce and even saying through a consulting firm San Antonio's airport hired claiming that Austin has inflated the reported daily passenger count flying to London. In other words they believe they should have gotten the flight.

I find it appalling to the point of hilarious that people would actually write articles like that. There is this sense of superiority that these people still feel about Austin despite the fact that we are no longer the small stepsister quaint quiet capital city they try to portray. BA would have not just decided to add a direct flight to Austin without research and market data. Austin has a larger international business travel market than many people realize, larger than many cities our size. Also despite what some article have added about the F1 track being a factor which it obviously is, you don't add a daily transatlantic flight for an event that takes place once a year.

Anyways I'm done with my rant lol.

Preach!!!

I totally agree. I think BA is the perfect fit for ABIA and for the city of Austin. San Antonio is simply jealous that they can only sustain a few flights to Mexico.

[texastarkus]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

You know I happened to come across this article awhile back.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...op-4793581.php

What I noticed reading the article is an apparent arrogant bias towards Austin like how we could have managed a direct flight to London. The article goes as far as it was more of a push by the city Chamber of Commerce and even saying through a consulting firm San Antonio's airport hired claiming that Austin has inflated the reported daily passenger count flying to London. In other words they believe they should have gotten the flight.

I find it appalling to the point of hilarious that people would actually write articles like that. There is this sense of superiority that these people still feel about Austin despite the fact that we are no longer the small stepsister quaint quiet capital city they try to portray. BA would have not just decided to add a direct flight to Austin without research and market data. Austin has a larger international business travel market than many people realize, larger than many cities our size. Also despite what some article have added about the F1 track being a factor which it obviously is, you don't add a daily transatlantic flight for an event that takes place once a year.

Anyways I'm done with my rant lol.

OH come on...do you really think a savy company like British Air doesn't know the actual numbers???? It is nothing more than jealousy on our part... the part of San Antonio. The Austin airport is now busier than ours, Austin is getting the new airlines ie jetblue, and virgin America. We (San Antonio) are building a new airport on top of the old and it will just take a little time to get it finished.
We have lived in the shadow of Austin for a long time and I guess the news is getting tired of it and is trying to fire a couple shots across the Austin bow.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

You know I happened to come across this article awhile back.

http://www.expressnews.com/business/...op-4793581.php

What I noticed reading the article is an apparent arrogant bias towards Austin like how we could have managed a direct flight to London. The article goes as far as it was more of a push by the city Chamber of Commerce and even saying through a consulting firm San Antonio's airport hired claiming that Austin has inflated the reported daily passenger count flying to London. In other words they believe they should have gotten the flight.

I find it appalling to the point of hilarious that people would actually write articles like that. There is this sense of superiority that these people still feel about Austin despite the fact that we are no longer the small stepsister quaint quiet capital city they try to portray. BA would have not just decided to add a direct flight to Austin without research and market data. Austin has a larger international business travel market than many people realize, larger than many cities our size. Also despite what some article have added about the F1 track being a factor which it obviously is, you don't add a daily transatlantic flight for an event that takes place once a year.

Anyways I'm done with my rant lol.

The international trade difference is reflected in the GDP numbers/growth trajectories for each metro. It's clear biz demand is driving the international flight demand in Austin... More so than most cities in the 2M range including sa.

I forget where atx ranks in GDP but it bats way above its population league.

[Austin1971]

I

[KevinFromTexas]

Austin may not be touristy in the way some other cities are. We don't have a spectacular zoo, no aquarium or planetarium and few museums. We also don't have any water parks or theme parks, though, the suburbs do. What Austin does have is a very lively central core that brings people in. The number of big festivals, concerts and other major events here every year is relentless. I really think the lack of a zoo or aquarium is mostly because of the personality of Austinites not liking the idea of some kind of animal themed park, and I really think some of those have become an outdated business/tourism model anyway. I haven't seen it yet, but that Blackfish documentary did't do Sea World any good. I think theme parks are also mostly seen as a waste of land and that model is also becoming less and less profitable. And while Formula 1 is a bit uncharacteristic of Austin's personality, there's no arguing that the track is a true tourist attraction. The big festivals and concerts are also classic tourist attractions, attracting thousands of people from outside of Austin who visit for maybe a few days to a week and then go home and tell their friends what they saw. Austin's tourism industry functions more as advertising agency than simply a tourism industry.

[Jdawgboy]

I didn't bring that article up to cause a city versus city issue, it is just something I noticed and thought I'd share. It's not just SA either, I saw one from Dallas which I'll have to look for that has a similar kind of reaction. It's simply an observation.

At any rate this will be an exciting year for ABIA. I wonder what other future announcements will pop up regarding Airlines or routes?

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Austin may not be touristy in the way some other cities are. We don't have a spectacular zoo, no aquarium or planetarium and few museums. We also don't have any water parks or theme parks, though, the suburbs do. What Austin does have is a very lively central core that brings people in. The number of big festivals, concerts and other major events here every year is relentless. I really think the lack of a zoo or aquarium is mostly because of the personality of Austinites not liking the idea of some kind of animal themed park, and I really think some of those have become an outdated business/tourism model anyway. I haven't seen it yet, but that Blackfish documentary did't do Sea World any good. I think theme parks are also mostly seen as a waste of land and that model is also becoming less and less profitable. And while Formula 1 is a bit uncharacteristic of Austin's personality, there's no arguing that the track is a true tourist attraction. The big festivals and concerts are also classic tourist attractions, attracting thousands of people from outside of Austin who visit for maybe a few days to a week and then go home and tell their friends what they saw. Austin's tourism industry functions more as advertising agency than simply a tourism industry.

I would love to see a high quality aquarium. It doesn't need to be the biggest in the world or anything, but I do think it offers a lot of educational opportunities for children.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by hereinaustin

I would love to see a high quality aquarium. It doesn't need to be the biggest in the world or anything, but I do think it offers a lot of educational opportunities for children.

To make it "Austin Weird," an artist can design the tank shape/decor, and make them really intriguing. Make it an aquarium and art display.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Austin may not be touristy in the way some other cities are. We don't have a spectacular zoo, no aquarium or planetarium and few museums. We also don't have any water parks or theme parks, though, the suburbs do. What Austin does have is a very lively central core that brings people in. The number of big festivals, concerts and other major events here every year is relentless. I really think the lack of a zoo or aquarium is mostly because of the personality of Austinites not liking the idea of some kind of animal themed park, and I really think some of those have become an outdated business/tourism model anyway. I haven't seen it yet, but that Blackfish documentary did't do Sea World any good. I think theme parks are also mostly seen as a waste of land and that model is also becoming less and less profitable. And while Formula 1 is a bit uncharacteristic of Austin's personality, there's no arguing that the track is a true tourist attraction. The big festivals and concerts are also classic tourist attractions, attracting thousands of people from outside of Austin who visit for maybe a few days to a week and then go home and tell their friends what they saw. Austin's tourism industry functions more as advertising agency than simply a tourism industry.

This is a great point of differentiation often overlooked. While everyone zigs, Austin zags. Hell, Toledo has a world class museum and zoo. Duplicating the standard of the past 100 years won't drive a differentiated culture and as a result attract a unique set of people. It probably happened by accident but it's benefited the area economically and culturally. That said, this town is full of smart people. A planetarium and art / music museum would be appropriate.

[alwaysmiling]

YES, ZAG ON!! Anyone can grab there kids, get in there car and take almost any highway out of this town and go to a plastic city with a plastic aquarium filled with animals in an artificial habitat... Austin is further in the future than to be amused by throwing sea life behind glass and gawking at it. Take your kids to Barton Springs with their goggles or a glass bottom boat tour in SM, or any of the other natural attractions that we have... Give me holograms, cloaking devices, 3d printers, anti-gravity rooms, digital art, and other types of futuristic media that looks progressively towards the challenges of the future........ something, anything, besides the sad entrapment and exploitation of animal life... we're smarter than that...

[texboy]

I thought it was great to hear Austin getting an international flight on here. Its fantastic when any city can increase the travel options of its residents and business community.

The pendulum swings both ways in this competition (and lets be honest, SA and Austin compete for air traffic) to see who can get the better flights. My view (and this is a very broad statement I'm about to make) is that SA is the last frontier in terms of the big four cities in Texas for business and leisure travel in the 21st century. Many folks on here and in the stats world see Austin surpassing SA in almost every category within the next couple decades. I have always disagreed with this view. What is left out of the stats is that Austin is increasingly becoming an expensive city to live in (the most expensive by a mile in Texas) and start/relocate a business to. Rightfully so as it is a gorgeous city with plenty of amenities for its residents to enjoy that make it a very attractive city to live in. This is not meant to cause irritation, but merely a clear observation. SA on the other hand is the cheapest city of the big 4 to live in and I believe there will be a lot of eyes turning to that city as businesses continue to search for ways to cut costs. My prediction is that SA will start ramping up in the coming decades and may play some catch up with Austin in terms of influx of people and air traffic. The puzzle pieces are there in SA, it just needs a few key parts to fit correctly in order to take off. IMO.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

This is a great point of differentiation often overlooked. While everyone zigs, Austin zags. Hell, Toledo has a world class museum and zoo. Duplicating the standard of the past 100 years won't drive a differentiated culture and as a result attract a unique set of people. It probably happened by accident but it's benefited the area economically and culturally. That said, this town is full of smart people. A planetarium and art / music museum would be appropriate.

Screw tourism! Austin needs a good art museum because the citizens would be enlightened and edified by a good museum. Austin lacks willing benefactors to pony up money and collect serious art with an eye towards giving their art collections to a museum. The Blanton is a nice university art museum. It is a start, but for the so called 11th largest city to have such an impoverished museum scene is a bit of an embarrassment actually.

[lzppjb]

Might be the first time I've heard/read the term "edified" outside of church. Kudos.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Might be the first time I've heard/read the term "edified" outside of church. Kudos.

Thank you! I have not seen the inside of a church in many years, but I usually feel quite "uplifted spiritually and intellectually" after visiting a good art museum. Around here that usually means a road trip to Houston, Ft. Worth, or Dallas. Hey, I just realized that this "tourism" topic is on the ABIA thread. Go figure.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by texboy

I thought it was great to hear Austin getting an international flight on here. Its fantastic when any city can increase the travel options of its residents and business community.

The pendulum swings both ways in this competition (and lets be honest, SA and Austin compete for air traffic) to see who can get the better flights. My view (and this is a very broad statement I'm about to make) is that SA is the last frontier in terms of the big four cities in Texas for business and leisure travel in the 21st century. Many folks on here and in the stats world see Austin surpassing SA in almost every category within the next couple decades. I have always disagreed with this view. What is left out of the stats is that Austin is increasingly becoming an expensive city to live in (the most expensive by a mile in Texas) and start/relocate a business to. Rightfully so as it is a gorgeous city with plenty of amenities for its residents to enjoy that make it a very attractive city to live in. This is not meant to cause irritation, but merely a clear observation. SA on the other hand is the cheapest city of the big 4 to live in and I believe there will be a lot of eyes turning to that city as businesses continue to search for ways to cut costs. My prediction is that SA will start ramping up in the coming decades and may play some catch up with Austin in terms of influx of people and air traffic. The puzzle pieces are there in SA, it just needs a few key parts to fit correctly in order to take off. IMO.

I respect your opinion, Texboy. However, I do have a few comments…

“The pendulum swings both ways in this competition (and lets be honest, SA and Austin compete for air traffic) to see who can get the better flights.”
-No, actually they do not. Market forces drive airline routes. I don’t care how much a city wants a specific route, without the proper market forces driving the airline to look into that route, it will not happen. Austin has more routes to the San Francisco Bay area than San Antonio because market dictated those flights…Austin and the Bay Area are hubs for the technology industry.
Furthermore, Austin’s airport has recorded more annual PAX than San Antonio’s for years.


”My view (and this is a very broad statement I'm about to make) is that SA is the last frontier in terms of the big four cities in Texas for business and leisure travel in the 21st century. Many folks on here and in the stats world see Austin surpassing SA in almost every category within the next couple decades. I have always disagreed with this view.”

-You shouldn’t disagree with the truth. Why would anyone put their professional reputation on the line with inaccurate numbers/stats? Stats are measurements of past circumstances, which may be used in the prediction of future events. Austin has never been behind San Antonio in certain measurements; trailing and caught up in several; lagging, but closing ground in many; and even loosing and possibly never catching up in others. It depends on what interests you the most as to how a particular stat will affect you personally.


”What is left out of the stats is that Austin is increasingly becoming an expensive city to live in (the most expensive by a mile in Texas) and start/relocate a business to. Rightfully so as it is a gorgeous city with plenty of amenities for its residents to enjoy that make it a very attractive city to live in. This is not meant to cause irritation, but merely a clear observation. SA on the other hand is the cheapest city of the big 4 to live in and I believe there will be a lot of eyes turning to that city as businesses continue to search for ways to cut costs.”

-Yes, Austin may be the “most expensive” city in which to live in Texas. However, there is not much difference between Austin and San Antonio. You make it sound as if someone dropped San Francisco off in the middle of Texas. Companies would not be moving to Texas in droves if any or all of the Big Four were "too expansive." Remember from where these companies are coming. California, Georgia, New York/New England…all of which are FAR more expensive than any city in Texas in which to live and run a business. Austin, for example, is cheap in their eyes. Some other reasons why businesses come to Austin over San Antonio is availability of educated/skilled labor, The University of Texas, quality of life, etc. And, please do not misread my comments and accuse me of saying SA is not a good place to live! It is.

Let's remember that pricing (in all categories) is market driven (as it is in every city). If people did not want to pay the "higher" prices, they will not and prices would fall. In this case, it is just a function of how much and how many people want to be in Austin at this point in time.

On a side note, anyone who tries to directly compare Austin to San Antonio is doing a disservice to both communities. Because of their differences in culture, economy, education, lifestyle, topography, specific location, etc., they are not on equal ground.


”My prediction is that SA will start ramping up in the coming decades and may play some catch up with Austin in terms of influx of people and air traffic. The puzzle pieces are there in SA, it just needs a few key parts to fit correctly in order to take off. IMO.”

-San Antonio has not been sitting idly on the sideline for the past 15 years. Their puzzle pieces have been there all along. And, I will give them credit; they are doing their best to improve them. Having said that, they have already ramped up and will continue to push forward. There is only so much they (or any city) can offer at any given time.

In the mid 2000’s to the early 2010’s, San Antonio and Dallas were kicking everyone’s a$$ in Texas (economically). Now, Houston and Austin are going nuts.

It is obvious that very different forces drive Austin and San Antonio’s economies. So, when one is up, the other may be struggling. Without going into a full-blown economics 101 lesson, that is why cities strive to have diversified economies.

Austin has been growing for a very long time. It has been too small to really be a player until now…people are finally noticing this little gem of Texas. The metropolitan area’s population has roughly doubled every 20-25 years since 1839 (the incorporation of the City of Austin). That is pretty consistent growth. And there does not seem to be any major barriers in the way for it not to continue this trend over the coming decades.

[GoldenBoot]

Can we PLEASE get back to ABIA talk now???