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  #61  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 4:18 AM
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MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
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^y'all sound like a bunch of women ...nobody here cares if your post is lame...damn, if I worried about BS posts I'd never had made it to almost 5,000 posts. Stupid shit is said all the time...it is posting when drinking that I worry about. Going back the next morning like, 'oh hell Mark, what did you blog last night'.

If more peeps here just posted what was on their mind, I think we'd have a more vibrant community. It seems like everyone needs to talk twice as much to keep these threads lively in this new format.
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  #62  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 5:08 AM
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Lets all drink & blog like Mark!
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  #63  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 5:12 AM
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⇑ I relate...
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  #64  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 7:39 AM
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im probably the worst poster
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  #65  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 5:03 PM
cturner144 cturner144 is offline
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Nyt

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopdx View Post
Oh my god. It seems that the NYTs has an article a week about us! One goofy comment was “If you want to be on the Westside, your price range will start a little higher and you’re going the have trees and bigger lots.” The last time I looked the Eastside had trees as well.
The NYTs calls to interview me and a 25 minute conversation gets condensed down to a quote (complete with a typo in the print version). The context was skewed as what I was referring to was the likes of Forest Park. Mt. Tabor may be the east side version but nothing like the size of FP. Oh well.

Charles Turner
Goofy Commenter and Realtor for Prudential NW Properties
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 5:48 PM
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Portland joins the rest of the nation ...

Case-Shiller Index for January is out.

Looks like it’s beginning, albeit in a small way. Year-over-year, Portland prices were down 0.5% (Seattle prices were down 1.3%):
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/25/real...ex.htm?cnn=yes

The trend graphs focusing on Portland and Seattle can be found here:
http://portlandrealestateoutsider.bl...s-drop-in.html

The beginning of the Portland bubble lagged about 12-18 months behind other cities in the index, and the Portland peak, as well as this first dip into negative YOY price changes, is consistent with this time shift. It’s good to know that the law of supply and demand has not been suspended.

Of course, price/income and price/rent ratios differ for each of the cities on the Case-Shiller list, so I would expect the details to differ. But I would expect price/income and price/rent ratios to overcorrect by a similar amount in all cities and then return to each city’s individual historical baseline over a medium time period. Details notwithstanding, I think this is a significant milestone in the Portland real estate market’s evolution.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 10:14 PM
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Oregonian: Portland home values take first dip

More Portland-centric information in today’s Oregonian, though not much about condo towers …

“The Portland area, once a star performer in an otherwise gloomy U.S. housing market, crossed into the same dismal territory in January when home values dropped for the first time since record-keeping began in 1987, according to a report released Tuesday.

The Standard & Poor's Case-Shiller report comes amid warnings from a respected economic consulting firm that home values could fall as much as 15 percent in Portland, Salem and Eugene and up to 25 percent in resort or retirement communities on the coast and in Bend, Hood River and southern Oregon.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...240.xml&coll=7

They’re being a little overly dramatic by saying that Portland “crossed into the same dismal territory”. After all, Portland’s 0.5% decline is still small compared to Phoenix and Miami’s 20% decline, although in the beginning, Phoenix and Miami’s declines were small, too. And the monthly decline is rather steep, with an overall 4% drop from the peak. First year-over-year decline in 20 years is significant, even if it is small …

Last edited by Leo; Mar 27, 2008 at 9:39 PM.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2008, 5:15 PM
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Thumbs down Portland's condo market feeling housing recession

Portland condo developers hit best of times, worst of timing
Buildings that opened as the condo boom melted down sit vacant in a shifting market
Sunday, April 06, 2008
RYAN FRANK and JEFF MANNING
The Oregonian

Condo king Homer Williams gambled that Portland's condo mania had reached such a fevered pitch that he could sell Pearl District luxury on a humdrum stretch of Southeast Portland.

He and his partners launched a $40 million building, a sprawling, 123-condo complex, along eclectic Belmont Street in 2006.

Their timing couldn't have been worse.

Just as 2121 Belmont's sales office opened last year, the national mortgage market melted down and the economy sputtered.

Since sales opened last year, 2121 Belmont had no sales, Williams said Tuesday. To cope, Williams said, the complex will switch to apartments, the fourth such conversion of the slowdown.

About 15 major buildings, including 2121, were planned during the city's five-year condo wave, and their construction started near the crest. Now that these buildings are finishing, buyers have backed off. Brokers and developers say they're still seeing lots of interest and some sales. But the pace of those sales has slowed far faster than Williams expected.

The shifting market is good news for buyers in search of a deal and for apartment owners who can cash in on strong demand from reluctant buyers. It's bad news for developers who accelerated construction at the end of the boom. Some made bets as big as $175 million on a single project that they wouldn't get pushed off by the bust.

Portland has outperformed almost every other major housing market. Job growth has slowed but is relatively stable and people continue to move here, two key drivers of housing demand. Still, recession fears fester in potential buyers who can't get a home loan or sell their house. Others worry that values would drop after they buy, costing them thousands.

Williams acknowledges that the slowdown is real but says much of it is tied to psychology. "It's between the ears," he said. "People are afraid right now."

Portland has roughly 1,300 new and existing condos on the market in the 28 biggest downtown projects. Over the past five years, an average of 800 condos sold annually. If the past five years is an indictor -- and some say it's not -- the city has enough supply to serve demand for 18 months to two years, said Patrick Clark, one of the city's top condo salesmen at Realty Trust City. That compares with about a 10-month inventory of homes for sale in the overall housing market.

"That would be optimistic to say that," Clark said of the current supply. Not surprisingly, the city's major developers have shelved plans for more towers until the supply is whittled down.

The next year could be bleak for developers with large, slow-selling condo buildings.

In some ways, they have a self-fulfilling problem. Brokers steer buyers away from struggling buildings over worries that the developer may reduce prices or, worse, that the bank will take the building back.

"I discriminate against unsold property," said John Cooper, a Portland real estate broker whose company is Portland Condos LLC. "If I'm representing a buyer, I don't want to put him in that situation.

"It was just the wrong time to come on the market."

Riding the boom

Portland developers rode one of the longest and largest downtown condo construction booms in U.S. history.

The downtown condo market, tiny in Portland until the 1990s, cashed in on twin forces: Baby boomers leaving their empty nests and young professionals with no desire to round out a Beaverton cul-de-sac.

With ready demand, developers built more than 4,000 downtown condos since 2001. That's more than twice the amount built in the past 30 years, according to real estate firm CB Richard Ellis.

At the peak in 2005, brokers needed just a week to get more than 200 people to reserve a spot in South Waterfront's John Ross tower. But no boom lasts forever. Like the 1990s dot-com expansion, all business cycles are, after all, cycles.

Portland's condo sales started to slow about 18 months ago. The first wisp of change attracted little notice.

Quick-turn investors, more tuned in to business cycles than typical buyers are, bailed first. Their purchases had induced artificial demand in the run-up, representing as much as 20 percent of the sales in a building, Clark said. Investors who tried to turn a quick sale, combined with all the new construction, produced more supply than the market could support.

Portland has less of a condo hangover than other cities. But for its size, Portland's slowing sales are comparable. "Portland looks the same as the nation. No better. No worse," said Dwight Frankfather, senior vice president at Chicago's Corus Bank, one of the country's leading lenders to condo developers.

How do developers overcome the mortgage market and buyers' worries? There are few shortcuts.

"You work through this stuff. It's just painful," Williams said.

In South Waterfront, Williams and his partner on the John Ross, Gerding Edlen Development, are trying to recruit buyers with a lease-to-own program. With no marketing, the program attracted 12 people.

The John Ross needs the help.

After a bustling opening week in 2005, the 31-story tower has seen more than 70 of those presumed buyers back out. Developers closed 181 sales, leaving 122 to go.

Clark, who's selling units in the building, said about 300 people visited the neighborhood sales office in February. But they aren't closing the deal.

"There's a number of potential buyers out there waiting to see if we've hit bottom," Clark said.

Dream team backing

The 2121 Belmont condo project was backed by a dream team.

Homer Williams and another experienced local condo developer, Scott Stehman of Reliance Development, initially envisioned the project. Cityview Investors, a California firm that gets most of its money from that state's public employees retirement fund, invested more than $4 million. They hired Hoffman Construction to build it.

Even before the real estate downturn, 2121 Belmont was pushing the real estate envelope.

It's five stories tall and spreads across several blocks in a neighborhood of wood-framed single family homes and small apartment complexes.

It was expensive at $400 per square foot, more than any other eastside condo building. The most expensive units bore price tags north of a half-million.

And the location was a challenge, 10 blocks from Belmont's commercial hub.

Yet, in the heady days, it didn't seem a stretch to think consumers would jump at the chance to buy an eastside condo of Pearl District size and cost.

The developers borrowed more than $29 million from LaSalle National Bank to finance the rest of the deal.

The high hopes quickly gave way to ugly reality last summer.

Just as developers mounted initial sales efforts, the mortgage industry went into freefall, further slowing an already declining housing market.

Days after opening their sales office, Stehman said, they effectively ended sales efforts, considering them largely a waste of time and money. By this spring, without a single sale, Williams said they decided to convert 2121 Belmont to apartments.

At some point, when the bad news ends and buyers again open their wallets, they will probably reconvert the building to condominiums, he said.

It's not a given that developers will be fill their condo-turned-apartment buildings at the sky-high rents they want.

But Williams predicts the renters they do get will someday turn into buyers. Rents are so high, it will make financial sense for them to buy, he said. But he acknowledges that buyers will stay renters until the economy and housing prices settle.

The trouble for developers stuck paying construction loans: No one has a clue when that will happen.

Ryan Frank: 503-221-8519; ryanfrank@news.oregonian.com. Jeff Manning: 503-294-7606; jmanning@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...540.xml&coll=7
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2008, 5:37 PM
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I think the interesting aspect is that, a single family home, to sell, will dump the price. At a certain price, everything sells.

The condos though, just switch to apartments.

I have been towing around with getting a second downtown condo, but the discount (proportional to the discount you can get on a SFH) isn't proportional.

I'm no expert, just one of the many buyers again hanging out on the sidelines.
It's very interesting times. Probably can't go wrong buying now over the long haul, but as the article said plainly, everyone wants to buy at the absolute bottom, no higher! I think it means that people who are considered 'buyers' are just people on the fringe looking to get a good deal, as opposed to the normal buyers who are simply priced out or locked out of good mortgages right now.

Very very interesting stuff to watch unfold. Developers...making a killing in the good times... eating crow (relatively) in the bad times.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2008, 7:00 PM
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These are interesting times.

It's not great for local jobs to see this kind of problem and not great for advancing the development of a more livable city either. I think it's not that terrible for the developers though...at least for the major ones. They make their money taking risks and I think (like the stock market) they do just fine overall as long as they are strong enough to ride out the down times. Things will be stronger again and projects will start selling and new projects coming off hold. It might take a year. My sense is that even with the doom and gloom some projects that are on hold may restart early in 2009.
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2008, 7:18 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Now's really the time to invest, tho. I wouldn't necessarily wait until it bottoms out... you never know when that will be. My landlord just bought 5 apartment buildings in my neighborhood and is in the (very slow - unit by unit) process of incrementally renovating them.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 10:46 PM
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“The condos though, just switch to apartments.”

I think the developers are making it sound easier than it actually is. For example:

“It's not a given that developers will be fill their condo-turned-apartment buildings at the sky-high rents they want.

But Williams predicts the renters they do get will someday turn into buyers. Rents are so high, it will make financial sense for them to buy, he said. But he acknowledges that buyers will stay renters until the economy and housing prices settle.”

Williams is completely ignoring the reason why people are renting to begin with: It is much cheaper than buying. If he is going to make rents so high that it will make financial sense to buy, then his rentals will sit just as empty as his condos. Going rental is only going to help developers if they can actually get renters.

The impact of condos “just” switching to apartments could easily be oversupply in the rental market. I don’t think this idea is too far-fetched. Last year, there were only two buildings I would seriously consider renting in: The Burlington and the Louisa. By next year, with The Wyatt and Ladd Tower, my choices will have doubled.

I’m surprised the Encore has only sold 12 out of 177 units. I think that building is going rental next. 937 wouldn’t even discuss how many units they’d sold – that doesn’t bode well for the 937 either…
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 11:26 PM
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A lot of negative mind sets on this forum.... It is a wonder anything gets done, imo.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 2:59 AM
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I don't think it's negative?

We are in a correction, both in housing and economy wise. I'm not waiting for someone from the Bush administration to tell me we are in one. Families are hurting, and have been for the better part of 6 years. We have a war draining any real funds we could use to prop the economy. Every other house appears to be in foreclosure. I don't think luxury condos or luxury apartments are going to be a huge sell in Portland. Since the low hanging fruit has been picked, I'd like to see the developers start building for the everyday Portlanders now.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 3:24 AM
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What I am getting at...and I agree with most of your points, Mark...is that a lot of construction has been going on the last few years in Portland. It seems as if people sometime get "negative/disheartened" when they don't see cranes rising; towers announced or rising; condo's sitting empty or being converted to apartments. I agree there probably was an overbuild (high end condo's, etc.) but I remember just a few years ago there weren't any condo towers in Portland, to speak of. So much has been built in Portland the last 10 years. Things are going through a down cycle....which might prove to be beneficial....especially when the market changes again we might get more towers/housing that have a newer variety of styles/designs that are being utilized today... I apologize that my prior post, in itself, was negative.

Last edited by PacificNW; Apr 8, 2008 at 7:34 PM.
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 4:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
... Every other house appears to be in foreclosure...
Oh come on. That's just a little too much drama. Geesh.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 4:53 AM
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if I said, every other house is in foreclosure that would be over the top...I put 'appears'. From MSM to local coverage, all anyone is hearing is the plight of the homeowner. Like everyone who has ever bought a place is struggling. We know that isn't that case, but a sizable enough majority is hurting and it is dragging down the market.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 5:47 AM
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...but a sizable enough majority is hurting and it is dragging down the market.
The number of foreclosures is nowhere near a sizable majority. It's not even a sizable minority. I do agree that reactions to media reports are negatively impacting the market. So is the credit squeeze. And the fear that values will drop further. Real estate is cyclical. In the early 1990's real estate values in Southern California dropped by 20 to 25 percent. Twelve years later values had tripled, or better, from that time.
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 8:25 AM
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The number of foreclosures is nowhere near a sizable majority. It's not even a sizable minority. I do agree that reactions to media reports are negatively impacting the market. So is the credit squeeze. And the fear that values will drop further. Real estate is cyclical. In the early 1990's real estate values in Southern California dropped by 20 to 25 percent. Twelve years later values had tripled, or better, from that time.
Agreed, this isn't that bad. I'm much more concerned about the global economy than the housing market correcting itself. Can't say I feel too bad for most people suffering a foreclosure now. If you can't afford, why'd you get it? On the contrary, I think the credit crunch could help condo sales by restricting loan amounts to condo prices.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
From MSM to local coverage, all anyone is hearing is the plight of the homeowner.
to a large extent, it's media hysteria. a sense of panic makes people tune in.
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