The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

That's really interesting because this T&T article from 2015 says the games will generate an economic impact of $25M according to GNB.

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tim...=story-related

Hmmmm........

Do you think maybe, just maybe, the chief organizer is pulling these numbers out of his ass????

Lets see - if the budget of the games is $17M, then we'll say that the games should be able to pull in $25M.

Now that the games are going to cost $130M, lets say that the games will generate hundreds of millions of dollars...........

Yeah, that's the ticket..........

[Philbilly]

Word on the street has it that day &c Ross is moving to caledonia (frenette st)
and Kent is buying they're land. All the moving to be done by late next year. Irving wants them out. Did anyone hear anything similar?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Philbilly

Word on the street has it that day &c Ross is moving to caledonia (frenette st)
and Kent is buying they're land. All the moving to be done by late next year. Irving wants them out. Did anyone hear anything similar?

The original rumour was that day & Ross was going to sell out to "Mapleton Crossing Phase Two" as part of the plan to relocate Costco here.



There was a frenzied bidding war for Costco however, Day & Ross was too greedy and Costco ended up going to the Granite Centre instead.

Day & Ross might still be interested in selling. Their current location off of Mapleton is not ideal for a trucking company. I don't know why Kent would want the Day & Ross property however. They've already expanded their distribution centre in the Caledonia Industrial Park, and they have a current large retail store at Wheeler Park. I don't think the retail store is busy enough to warrant any relocation or expansion, but you never know. They just recently relocated their Dartmouth store to a massive new building next to IKEA.

In any event, i have heard no rumours.........

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The original rumour was that day & Ross was going to sell out to "Mapleton Crossing Phase Two" as part of the plan to relocate Costco here.

Day & Ross might still be interested in selling. Their current location off of Mapleton is not ideal for a trucking company. I don't know why Kent would want the Day & Ross property however. They've already expanded their distribution centre in the Caledonia Industrial Park, and they have a current large retail store at Wheeler Park. I don't think the retail store is busy enough to warrant any relocation or expansion, but you never know. They just recently relocated their Dartmouth store to a massive new building next to IKEA.

In any event, i have heard no rumours.........

I was going to say that Irving might want to put a Big Stop in there even though they have one in Salisbury I think they could have another successful one here too, but he said Kent wants the property. That would be neat if Kent did want the property though, it would make room for an even bigger redevelopment in Trinity Dive or would make room for 2 redevelopments rather than 1 .

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I live in ward three, and the by-election to replace Rob McKee is coming up on Monday. I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for before, but I know now. If there is one person who will stand up for Moncton ratepayers, and who will help put an end to this ridiculous and fraudulent farce, it will be Brian Hicks.

That's who I'm voting for..........

Well, I got my wish and Brian Hicks was elected in the Ward 3 by-election. It wasn't even close really........

He is a fiscal conservative, and the "gang of three" on city council will now be a "gang of four". This should make it very difficult for the Francophonie Games organizers to pry any more money out of Moncton city council for their fraudulent enterprise.

On the other hand, this will also mean that council in general will be less progressive for the remainder of their term. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. It may mean that a number of other (potentially worthwhile) forward thinking projects will have a tougher time getting council approval.

[MonctonRad]

And the Higgs budget is lopping nearly $250M off of infrastructure projects formerly approved by the Gallant government.

The following projects have been postponed (Moncton region projects bolded):

- A new Centennial Building and courthouse complex in Fredericton
- A new New Brunswick Museum in Saint John
- Route 11 upgrades between Cocagne River and Little Bouctouche River and between Glenwood and Miramichi
- Planning for a new school in Moncton to replace Bessborough and Hillcrest schools
- The design of a new K-8 school in Campbellton
- Renovations to the Memramcook Institute.

The budget however includes a new francophone K-8 school in Moncton. The previous Liberal government had announced plans for the school to take pressure off two overcrowded schools in the city, École Le Sommet and École Champlain

a new maternity and newborn unit at the Moncton Hospital and a surgical suite addition at the Dr. Georges-L.-Dumont University Hospital Centre are also safe (planning and/or construction of both these projects are already well advanced).

A big difference between "Profligate Gallant" and "Parsimonious Higgs". Does anyone in the province still think the Francophonie Games are still going ahead???? I would say only if they are $20M or less. A $130M games certainly won't fly, especially considering the cost cutting on needed infrastructure projects elsewhere.

[Feneant]

Higgs could always say its either we get the games or the new school they promised, maybe that would placate the French- although as others have said the games aren't limited only to french people.

I don't understand this city or the province, we're dirt poor but yet we can somehow afford (italic because we CANT) to constantly spend millions on things like parks, fountains and new schools every year. I went to Champlain and didn't die of exhaust fumes, I went to Vanier in the early 90s and it was a dump but you know what, we all survived.

Maybe this is a part of our culture of expensive shiny things? Canadians owe 1.70$ for every dollar they bring in and they apparently expect provinces to do the same 'A little debt never hurt anyone!'.

[Ammn_guy]

My first question around the games is.. how much is the exectutive commitee getting paid.

What seems to have happened over the decades with these events is that what used to be a well supported mostly volunteer run event has turned it to some peoples profession.. and some business, entrpreneurs have latched onto major events as opportunity to create lucrative business's .. where voluteers where typically used in the past.

I understand the infrastructure costs.. kinda with the exception of the soccer fields in Dieppe that seems unnecessary there are 4 professional grade artificial fields fields in Moncton with another 8 practice fields at the sportsplex. They could even use Mt A if they needed too probrably.

I also understand some professionals need to be paid.. however 84 million in operating costs.. sounds like some serious wallet padding or large pool of paid execs sitting around to me.

[Taeolas]

Don't worry, the province has a solution to pay for the games.

Each NBer is expected to sell 4 cases of World's Finest Chocolates, or 12 year long magazine subscriptions. Or face a 500$ fine. Also NBers will be randomly picked to sell 50/50 tix at all of the sporting events.

Yes I know that is satire, thank goodness.

[MonctonRad]

4 members of Francophonie Games committee resign over controversy
Members point to 'undue controversy' around planning for games
Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News · Posted: Dec 12, 2018 7:04 PM AT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

actually, five members of the board have resigned, all provincial appointees. They say that they "no longer had the confidence of the province to continue their mandate."

Personally, I think they realize the jig is up and have decided to abandon the sinking ship.

Meanwhile the Liberal government in Ottawa has decided to politicize this fraudulent bidding process by stating that "New Brunswick needs to accept responsibility for the games."

Fat chance for that!!! The provincial government was deceived by the games organizing committee. No reasonable person (aside from Dominic LeBlanc) would believe otherwise.

Higgs response to LeBlanc's challenge was quite reasonable:

Higgs repeated again Wednesday that the province would not put in more than $10 million but was not as clear on what would happen if the costs could not be lowered enough.

"It's not my plug to pull," Higgs told reporters. "It didn't get here through any action of mine.

"We recognize the commitment had been made, and we said we'll honour our commitment.

The blame game has started. The Francophonie Games are as dead as a doornail..........

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

4 members of Francophonie Games committee resign over controversy
Members point to 'undue controversy' around planning for games
Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News · Posted: Dec 12, 2018 7:04 PM AT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

actually, five members of the board have resigned, all provincial appointees. They say that they "no longer had the confidence of the province to continue their mandate."

Personally, I think they realize the jig is up and have decided to abandon the sinking ship.

Meanwhile the Liberal government in Ottawa has decided to politicize this fraudulent bidding process by stating that "New Brunswick needs to accept responsibility for the games."

Fat chance for that!!! The provincial government was deceived by the games organizing committee. No reasonable person (aside from Dominic LeBlanc) would believe otherwise.

Higgs response to LeBlanc's challenge was quite reasonable:



The blame game has started. The Francophonie Games are as dead as a doornail..........

Not exactly sure why some people want to see these games dead. I would rather it go through but just for a compromise to be made as to the arrangements to use already existing infrastructure and keep the price down rather than pay a higher cost or to cancel the games all together.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Not exactly sure why some people want to see these games dead. I would rather it go through but just for a compromise to be made as to the arrangements to use already existing infrastructure and keep the price down rather than pay a higher cost or to cancel the games all together.

Let me rephrase - I don't necessarily want to see them dead either, I just can't imagine how you can bridge the chasm between a $17M games and a $130M games. It's just too broad a leap.

Higgs won't pony up much more (especially when he is pruning $250M off of needed infrastructure). Even if he wanted to, he leads a weak minority government and the Peoples Alliance has already gone on record as opposing any more public money be spent on this enterprise.

Also, despite Dominic LeBlanc's righteous (politically motivated) indignation, he has stated that the feds will only provide matching funds to the provincial contribution, thus punting the ball back to Higgs. LeBlanc's tears are crocodile tears on this file.

Moncton and Dieppe do not have the fiscal capacity to increase their funding by much. LaPierre has refused on Dieppe's part, and Arnold is hobbled by a restive city council and pre-existing financial obligations for other civic infrastructure (events centre, north end YMCA, new RCMP station etc.). The cupboard is bare.

Unless a scaled back games can be held for $25M tops, then NB should just withdraw support for the games and be done with it.

There are precedents in Canada for doing this (Halifax and the Commonwealth Games, Calgary and their most recent Olympic Games bid). Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Let me rephrase - I don't necessarily want to see them dead either, I just can't imagine how you can bridge the chasm between a $17M games and a $130M games. It's just too broad a leap.

Higgs won't pony up much more (especially when he is pruning $250M off of needed infrastructure). Even if he wanted to, he leads a weak minority government and the Peoples Alliance has already gone on record as opposing any more public money be spent on this enterprise.

Also, despite Dominic LeBlanc's righteous (politically motivated) indignation, he has stated that the feds will only provide matching funds to the provincial contribution, thus punting the ball back to Higgs. LeBlanc's tears are crocodile tears on this file.

Moncton and Dieppe do not have the fiscal capacity to increase their funding by much. LaPierre has refused on Dieppe's part, and Arnold is hobbled by a restive city council and pre-existing financial obligations for other civic infrastructure (events centre, north end YMCA, new RCMP station etc.). The cupboard is bare.

Unless a scaled back games can be held for $25M tops, then NB should just withdraw support for the games and be done with it.

There are precedents in Canada for doing this (Halifax and the Commonwealth Games, Calgary and their most recent Olympic Games bid). Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

Personally I agree with your second post 100%. It was more like facts, not opinion. It's just your first post seemed like you were very energetic and enthusiastic. Maybe I just took you the wrong way.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Personally I agree with your second post 100%. It was more like facts, not opinion. It's just your first post seemed like you were very energetic, enthusiastic and couldn't be happier. Maybe I just took you the wrong way.

Sometimes when I perceive a wrong, I let my enthusiasm get the better of me.

I'm personally affronted that the games organizing committee tried to deceive the politicians in such a blatant manner. I don't want to see them rewarded for their deliberate deception by suckering the government into caving into their outlandish requests. I'm mad as hell over this.

This will however be a black eye for Moncton that I am embarrassed over, but I would rather be embarrassed than impoverished.

[MonctonRad]

Brian Hicks returns to Moncton council ready to scrap over spending
Newly elected Hicks says he will continue to 'stand up and fight' when he sees something wrong
Jordan Gill · CBC News · Posted: Dec 12, 2018 2:46 PM AT | Last Updated: December 12
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ncil-1.4942722

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This will however be a black eye for Moncton that I am embarrassed over, but I would rather be embarrassed than impoverished.

There very well could be a fee associated with cancelling the bid at this point. It's possible that when Moncton signed on to host that they entered into an agreement with the JDF and breaching that agreement could be millions unto itself. This isn't a simple situation of Moncton stepping away whenever it wants to.

I don't know if a cancellation fee exists in this situation but it would not shock me, and it wouldn't shock me if it was nine figures. It's unlikely to be as high as the hosting fee required but it still may be a fee nonetheless.

[Taeolas]

There very likely are cancellation fees, as well as minimum requirements guidelines. So if the city can't provide those minimum facilities and whatever, there might be more fines on top of that. This bid committee has probably dug Moncton into a hole that will be expensive to get out no matter what way the city goes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

There very well could be a fee associated with cancelling the bid at this point. It's possible that when Moncton signed on to host that they entered into an agreement with the JDF and breaching that agreement could be millions unto itself. This isn't a simple situation of Moncton stepping away whenever it wants to.

You may be right. Nobody has mentioned cancellation fees yet.

If there are cancellation fees, this will be a final "gift" to the province by the Gallant Liberals.

Just like Atcon, a "gift that keeps on giving".........

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You may be right. Nobody has mentioned cancellation fees yet.

If there are cancellation fees, this will be a final "gift" to the province by the Gallant Liberals.

Just like Atcon, a "gift that keeps on giving".........

Yes, it's Gallant's fault that the organizers are either incompetent or intentionally lied.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sometimes when I perceive a wrong, I let my enthusiasm get the better of me.

I'm personally affronted that the games organizing committee tried to deceive the politicians in such a blatant manner. I don't want to see them rewarded for their deliberate deception by suckering the government into caving into their outlandish requests. I'm mad as hell over this.

This will however be a black eye for Moncton that I am embarrassed over, but I would rather be embarrassed than impoverished.

I doubt this will be seen as a black eye by many. The Jeux de la Francophonie, while a big event, isn't nearly as well respected or globally noticed as say the women's fifa or other events hosted in the city.

I am an avid sports fan, and I feel even within the nation's that take part in the games, the games are seen as a second teir competition by most. Let us be done with it and let Sherbrooke host.... if they still want it.