ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

In the future some of us could become in-town Republicans!

I would welcome that.

I'm so sick of how people in this state think that Democrat=Urban, and Republican=Suburban or Rural. I'd love to see urban issues as bipartisan issues. As it is now, the few Republicans who are sensitive to urban issues are ridiculed by their party.

[AubieTurtle]

Originally Posted by Terminus

I would welcome that.

I'm so sick of how people in this state think that Democrat=Urban, and Republican=Suburban or Rural. I'd love to see urban issues as bipartisan issues. As it is now, the few Republicans who are sensitive to urban issues are ridiculed by their party.

It's going to happen... it already is happening. Suburban areas are already becoming more liberal due to one of the traditional bases (lower income) of the left moving more into the 'burbs. Intown might take more time since right wingers seem to be choosing to move further out into the exurbs instead of intown (I know some are moving intown but as a group, it seems like its the exurbs for them) while you're getting more moderate and liberal middle class folks as the bulk of the new intown population. So even if you still have a divide, it looks like it will be more of the intown and inner ring suburbs versus exurbs.

If Republicans or Democrats are getting ridiculed by the bulk of their party for views that are different, well, good! Hopefully, eventually people like the Republicans pushing for the "Brain Train" or intown Democrats pushing for enforcement of "quality of life" laws will start to identify more with individual issues instead of mindlessly following what their team, er, party tells them to. That would be a very good thing.

Personally, I'd like to have the electronic voting machines set up to give a nice strong shock to anyone pressing the straight party button.

[Teshadoh]

The larger metro areas appear to be more sophisticated regarding political affiliations. Whereas smaller urban areas that are more provincial than NYC like Atlanta , political power is typically controlled by a few - either neo-conservative fundamentalist suburbanites or minority oriented liberal politics in the urban core. Obvously this is a simplistic view - but LA & NYC can elect republicans that do not follow the official republican platform. Otherwise, the conservatives in power in suburban Atlanta are too often following the far-right rhetoric of Ralph Reed. Additionally, the republican party is controlled largely by a few influential rural beucrats & industrialists in places like GA.

Which is unfortunate, because if it weren't for social-conservatism - I might likely support a republican. Though one big difference between the two parties - the very concept of supporting 'big business' vs. the disenfranchised individual. But b/c NIMBYism is a dirty word in this internet forum at least - most forummers here would likely support a republican over a democrat if it weren't for the backwards social view of rural republicans.

[Chris Creech]

I read in the paper today there's going to be a move to rename the Civic Center Station, to Ivan Allen Plaza Station.

The name never made sense anyhow, since the Civic Center is so far away, and it's not exactly a great pedestrian route to it.

This would make much more sense, and also solidify the idenity of the area.

Though I also wouldn't mind "Centinial Hill Station" That would be a more a little more inclusive.

[sabino86]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech

I read in the paper today there's going to be a move to rename the Civic Center Station, to Ivan Allen Plaza Station.

The name never made sense anyhow, since the Civic Center is so far away, and it's not exactly a great pedestrian route to it.

This would make much more sense, and also solidify the idenity of the area.

Though I also wouldn't mind "Centennial Hill Station" That would be a more a little more inclusive.

Do you have a link for this story?

And as for renaming it, I agree with "Centennial Hill" as well.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by AubieTurtle

Personally, I'd like to have the electronic voting machines set up to give a nice strong shock to anyone pressing the straight party button.

I want Fiorenza to get his bad Republican self down into this city and help us make this place truly world class. Bring all your friends, too!!

[Fiorenza]

Thanks for the encouragement, Andrea....we're workin' on it!

[AubieTurtle]

I think the Ivan Allen idea came out of the makers of the fantasy transit map associated with Citizens for Progressive Transit. I'm actually quite annoyed by this since I made a similar (though less extensive map) long ago that was likely the inspiration of their map. On that map I renamed Civic Center to Centennial Hill but they chose to go with the name of a corporate development instead, which is a strange choice for what is suppose to be a grassroots organization.

I realize that the name "Centennial Hill" was coined by Hines but the neighborhood has adopted it and it has spread to a much wider area than Hines had intended. It seems like the Ivan Allen folks want to override the community preference in favor of their marketing needs. With the Ivan Allen project continuing to add blocks, it does comprise a large chunk of the neighborhood, which is typically defined as being bordered by the connector, North Avenue, Baker, and either Marietta or Luckie. Whether it was renamed Ivan Allen or Centennial Hill, it is on the boundry of either of those areas so you can't really say it is in the heart of either one, meaning that SoNo or Bedford-Pine would have almost as much of a claim on the station.

This is probably all silly anyway because I doubt MARTA is going to be open to renaming the station unless someone gives them a big pile of money to redo the maps and have an advertising campaign to inform the public of the name change. I can't tell you how often I get stopped while walking down the street by people trying to find Alexander Street which is now Ivan Allen Blvd. Once a particular name gets into common use, it is hard to erase all mention of it. I'd hate for tourists who have an old travelers guidebook to get confused because the station changed names on them. As it is there are already enough problems with conventioners getting off at Arts Center because they confuse "N5" with Five Points.

[Teshadoh]

I know myself & a few others have discussed this & I'm glad MARTA is reviewing it. Especially a MARTA station between MLK & Inman Park which I have considered would be a great Cabbagetown station.

MARTA studies closing rail gaps
Stations too few and too far between

By PAUL DONSKY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/02/07

Nearly three miles separate the Arts Center and Lindbergh rail stations on MARTA's north-south line.

In transit terms, that's a vast gap. Most people will walk no more than a half-mile to catch a train or bus, experts say.
Keith Hadley/Staff
(ENLARGE)
MARTA is looking at the feasibility of shoe-horning in rail stations where significant gaps exist between existing stations.


MARTA's 48-mile rail system has several similar gaps, to the frustration of transit system officials on the lookout for new riders and additional revenue.

Historically, MARTA has sought to build ridership by expanding its rail lines. But with construction costs at about $100 million per mile, it's an expensive proposition. MARTA officials are now wondering whether there might be a cheaper alternative: Shoe-horning new stations into some of those gaps.

The MARTA board of directors recently asked staffers to study the concept of building "infill" stations.

Infill stations could "add a lot of new ridership, add to the quality of life for those in Fulton and DeKalb," said MARTA board Chairman Ed Wall. "It might not cost a whole lot to drop a station in there."

The prospect of building infill stations was initially floated by Lara Hodgson, an executive with Dewberry Capital, an Atlanta development company located on Peachtree Street in the no-man's land between Midtown and Buckhead.

Hodgson, the company's chief marketing officer, said the idea came to her after she learned that MARTA's subway tunnel went right under her company's office building. Yet the nearest station, Arts Center, is more than a 10-minute walk away.

"MARTA's approach has always been to extend the line, and once they've built that, development would come," said Hodgson, appointed last year by Gov. Sonny Perdue to serve on metro Atlanta's regional Transit Planning Board.

"But what if you did the opposite?" she added. "What if you build where development already is? ... Let's take the rail we already have and figure out how to serve more people."

Infill stations could tie into the planned Beltline transit project and even provide better connections to places like Turner Field, Hodgson said.

But building the new stations could prove difficult. An infill station in the fast-growing area near Hodgson's workplace, for instance, would have to be built either underground or on a bridge spanning I-85. MARTA officials estimate it would cost $175 million to $300 million.

An infill station was recently built on Washington's rapid rail system. The project took four years and $120 million to complete — roughly the cost of the planned 26-mile commuter rail line between downtown Atlanta and south Clayton County.

The new station was built just west of the existing tracks, served by a new stretch of rail about one-third of a mile long.

"It was the most challenging thing I've ever been involved with, because we had to keep the railroad running" during construction, said John Thomas, acting director of construction with the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority.

Businesses chipped in $25M

The new station has attracted about 6,000 new riders a day. It was partially funded by businesses in the area, which chipped in $25 million.

MARTA has not set aside any money to build infill stations.

Hodgson has suggested MARTA look at four gaps that could support a station: between the Garnett and West End stations just south of downtown Atlanta; between King Memorial and Inman Park stations just east of downtown; between the Arts Center and Lindbergh stations north of Midtown; and between the West Lake and Ashby stations on Atlanta's west side.

The sites have relatively high population densities and offer some intriguing possibilities, she said.

A new station between King Memorial and Inman Park, for instance, could serve as a transfer point to the planned Beltline transit loop. The area includes a growing number of condominiums, apartments, shops and restaurants.

The Garnett-West End gap was home to a vast public housing project that has been torn down to make way for a mixed-income village. It's also across I-20 from the Atlanta University Center and only blocks from the hip bars, art galleries and cafes of the blossoming Castleberry Hill neighborhood.

The station would be close to Turner Field, providing baseball fans with a shorter shuttle ride to the game than the current route from downtown.

Conrad Woods, owner of the Coffee Loft in Castleberry Hill, said a Castleberry stop could help bring more people to his shop and others in the area.

Castleberry "is in a growth stage, and it needs more people in the general area walking around," he said.

Hodgson does have a vested interest in promoting an infill station between Arts Center and Lindbergh. Her boss, developer John Dewberry, has ambitious plans to transform the area into "Uptown" Atlanta, a densely packed neighborhood with office towers, condos and shops.

But the area is growing, she said, noting the recent arrival of the Savannah College of Art and Design's Atlanta campus. The school has 900 students and 120 faculty members.

Gloria Gaines, MARTA's assistant general manager for planning, said the transit system is taking the infill station concept seriously.

"MARTA has to be open to all new ideas," she said. "If this makes sense for MARTA, I tell you, we're on it and we'll be ready to do it."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...102a_3DOT.html

[WSUSOM]

What a great ideal, I also think an infill station between decatur and Avondale train stations would be great considering the future plans of the city of decatur and the Avondale mixed use project involving MARTA( Sorry for the run on sentence but my brain is a little fried from reading about acute renal failure for the last couple of hours).

[AubieTurtle]

I hope they can come up with some simplier station designs. If they all look like King Memorial, then it is going to cost a fortune (I think that station catches stray asteroids in its gravitational field). The tricky part is how to build stations inline without making everyone go insane from several more years of single tracking. Building the station slightly out of line from the current track and then rerouting to the new station sounds good but requires new property acquistion and in some places wouldn't be possible due to existing structures.

Anyone who saw my old fantasy transit map may remember my plans for the "black line", which ran from Pershing Station (between Arts Center and Lindberg) to Five Points and added mini stations at 12th Street, Tech Square and Baker. The point was that small two car trains could be used in that very dense part of town during the times when the mainline trains were down to 15 or 20 minute frequency so that there could be a train in that area every couple of minutes during off peak because the demand to get up and down midtown and downtown likely exists for more frequent service. The Peachtree Street car might fill that demand, provided it doesn't fall pray to the problem with the existing heavy rail, namely that it has to go back and forth through lots of low density low ridership areas during off peak hours.

[atlanta_transit]

Another cool idea is a Simpson Road station on the PC line - for 4 cars and also expand Bankhead for 4 cars. That way there is more rIdership and an operational problem is made better. You might even get away with closing the line for a year or so and making a bus bridge since current ridership is so low. The buses that serve Bankhead could be temporarily rerouted to/from other stations.

[micropundit]

(I think that station catches stray asteroids in its gravitational field

).

[RobMidtowner]

If they build a station at Pershing Point, that would force me to stop using my car to get to work.

[Chris Creech]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

If they build a station at Pershing Point, that would force me to stop using my car to get to work.

Wasn't Dewberry floating the idea of a Peachtree Point station? where he'd help pay for it? I wonder if MARTA would take another look at that now.

That's a great spot for one.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by AubieTurtle

Anyone who saw my old fantasy transit map...

Aubie, do you still have this map? If so can you post it, I would be curious to see.

[joey]

Pershing Point would be a very difficult location for an infill station, though. The DC-Metro New York Ave. station the article refers to was a new station built where the tracks were already elevated, adjacent to a wide rail yard. Even without digging, and with lots of open space next to it, it was still very expensive.

I'd love to see a station in that area of Peachtree, but with the section being underground, I don't see how it could affordably be built. They would need to build a new temporary parallel underground tunnel while it's under construction, one that would be abandoned once the station opened. Or, if they built the station across the interstate north of Dewberry, besides being less desirable because of the distance away, would require an incredibly expensive bridge to hold it.

The best chance, I feel, for a station in that area would be for it to be on a new short northwest branch that would come out of the existing provisions just north of Arts Center. At one point, stations at Brookwood and Northside Drive/I-75 were planned off of the truncated (post-Cobb-vote) northwest line, and this would have crossed the Connector somewhere around Loring Heights. But, even this would require expensive new tunneling and bridging (not to mention a whole new line), and these stations would be only conveniently accessible from the south.


http://world.nycsubway.org/us/atlant...rovisions.html

[BtiVaHiAtl]

Interesting article on someone from the 'burbs and his switch to a MARTA commute.

http://www.cfpt.org/blog.php?action=viewpost&id=105

I found this article interesting because I live within 5 miles of the Clifton Corridor and commute there everyday on the MARTA bus. My commute is about 35 minutes, only about 20 of which are actually spent riding the bus, and I have also had a very positive experience with my daily commute.

[sabino86]

Originally Posted by joey

Pershing Point would be a very difficult location for an infill station, though. The DC-Metro New York Ave. station the article refers to was a new station built where the tracks were already elevated, adjacent to a wide rail yard. Even without digging, and with lots of open space next to it, it was still very expensive.

I'd love to see a station in that area of Peachtree, but with the section being underground, I don't see how it could affordably be built. They would need to build a new temporary parallel underground tunnel while it's under construction, one that would be abandoned once the station opened. Or, if they built the station across the interstate north of Dewberry, besides being less desirable because of the distance away, would require an incredibly expensive bridge to hold it.

The best chance, I feel, for a station in that area would be for it to be on a new short northwest branch that would come out of the existing provisions just north of Arts Center. At one point, stations at Brookwood and Northside Drive/I-75 were planned off of the truncated (post-Cobb-vote) northwest line, and this would have crossed the Connector somewhere around Loring Heights. But, even this would require expensive new tunneling and bridging (not to mention a whole new line), and these stations would be only conveniently accessible from the south.


http://world.nycsubway.org/us/atlant...rovisions.html

In regards to that, Dewberry actually suggested using the Northwest Line provision as part of a rerouted North Line and build the Peachtree Pointe station on that while keeping the North Line operational and then when construction would be finished, the currently used portion would be abandoned.

[jason21atl]

I haven't been closely monitoring this thread so I don't know if this point has already been made. I sold my car several weeks ago and have been using MARTA as my sole method of transportation. I take it to work, shopping, entertainment, etc. I also walk ALOT. I probably do more walking in a day than a lot of people probably do in a week.....walk to the MARTA station, walk to the grocery store, walk to restaurants, walk to nightlife, etc. So far, it has worked out perfectly for me and I only wish I would have moved intown and sold my car sooner.

Anyway, my point is that people in Atlanta (even many "intowners") view MARTA as "second-class transportation" and not "alternative transportation." When I tell people I decided to sell my car and use MARTA, they automatically assume I am on tough financial times, I lost my driver's license, or am just plain crazy. They just can't comprehend the fact that I am very financially stable, am physically able to drive, and choose not to do so. It's gotten to the point that I hate talking with people about because I am getting so tired of having to explain my reasoning and assure them that I'm not down on my luck.

Unfortunately in the US and especially in the south, automobiles are seen as status symbols and signs of how wealthy one is. MARTA and other public transit in Atlanta is seen as transportation for people who can't afford a car. Mass transit isn't going to boom in a city like Atlanta as long as people view it as "second class."