[Saint John] Port Development - Page 5

Ottawa · #81 Posted **Aug 29, 2023, 8:57 PM**

Here's another pic I found today that may indicate some rail upgrades being done. The asphalt at the NBSR/Eagle Rock Road, Welsford crossing has been replaced just at the rail crossing. Track upgrades need to be done eventually and NBSR is likely to do necessary upgrades if this level of reconstruction is being done.

It would be interesting to know if anything else has been done (rail replacement, ballast or tie replacement, etc.) other than just the asphalt replacement on the road. It might indicate other upgrades are being done elsewhere also.

Pic courtesy of https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/d...b_cameras.html

cdnguys · #82 Posted **Aug 29, 2023, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I assume you're referring to Bayshore Yard or are you talking about somewhere else? Take some pics for us next time you're in the area. Always appreciate that stuff.

The actual yard right at terminal. I was going to take a pic then decided wouldn’t need it. Next time I will

Ottawa · #83 Posted **Aug 31, 2023, 12:37 AM**

Looking northeast at the three cranes working the NYK NEBULA yesterday. At this angle it's obvious the newer cranes are wider when the booms are down which means they can work on wider (bigger capacity) ships.

Looking north on the port rail yard from the vicinity of Market Place just west of the port boundary. Intermodal trains are loaded and unloaded from this staging yard.

Both pics courtesy of X007.

Ottawa · #84 Posted **Aug 31, 2023, 5:39 PM**

2 (out of 5) headlines on theloadstar.com today are focused on scrapping older/smaller container vessels to achieve the efficiencies needed to restore profitability.

"Container lines may be eyeing even more new tonnage"

In the midst of reduced TEUs and reduced rates, companies are continuing to place new orders for 12 to 16K+ TEU ships to reduce their costs per mile and per teu. Not just increased efficiency by size but also by fuel. Methanol and/or LNG seem to be the preference...

and

"RCL sells more older box ships for scrap as earnings fall"

They're scrapping small and buying 7-12K TEU ships in a down market.

Scrapping smaller box ships is a boom industry in 2023 and it is only going to increase. 2/3 of the way through 2023, there is a >900% increase in scrapping over the entirety of 2022. This is where Saint John will shine in the coming years. Montreal has a 6000 TEU limit which is based on the entire St. Lawrence River. Where is that business headed?

Ottawa · #85 Posted **Aug 31, 2023, 5:45 PM**

CSX is upgrading the switches at the Mattawamkeag interchange with NBSR/EMR.

You can see the massive difference between the existing rail and the 136 lb rail they are converting to. VERY BEEFY!

https://youtu.be/R397tmo_6P0?si=EpQRS5mV04YUb922

cdnguys · #86 Posted **Aug 31, 2023, 6:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa

2 (out of 5) headlines on theloadstar.com today are focused on scrapping older/smaller container vessels to achieve the efficiencies needed to restore profitability.

"Container lines may be eyeing even more new tonnage"

In the midst of reduced TEUs and reduced rates, companies are continuing to place new orders for 12 to 16K+ TEU ships to reduce their costs per mile and per teu. Not just increased efficiency by size but also by fuel. Methanol and/or LNG seem to be the preference...

and

"RCL sells more older box ships for scrap as earnings fall"

They're scrapping small and buying 7-12K TEU ships in a down market.

Scrapping smaller box ships is a boom industry in 2023 and it is only going to increase. 2/3 of the way through 2023, there is a >900% increase in scrapping over the entirety of 2022. This is where Saint John will shine in the coming years. Montreal has a 6000 TEU limit which is based on the entire St. Lawrence River. Where is that business headed?

So ships getting too big for the St. Lawrence seems like sweet revenge for Saint John losing it’s major port status when they started ice breaking the river.

MonctonRad · #87 Posted **Aug 31, 2023, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnguys

So ships getting too big for the St. Lawrence seems like sweet revenge for Saint John losing it’s major port status when they started ice breaking the river.

Don't worry, the feds will surely pay for dredging the river channel.

MonctonianSentinel01 · #88 Posted **Sep 1, 2023, 1:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa

This is where Saint John will shine in the coming years. Montreal has a 6000 TEU limit which is based on the entire St. Lawrence River. Where is that business headed?

Yeah when we talk about heavier ships like crude oil and other commodities, they have to dock at Quebec City and unload half of the weight/volume at the port into holding tanks. They then continue on to Montreal with that half that they kept. They unload that in Montreal and then go back to Quebec City to get the other half, reload it and then go unload that half in Montreal, just because the Saint Lawrence isn't deep enough for the heavier ships. They more than likely won't be able to handle the larger container ships though.

Then there is Quebec City that is/or has built a container terminal. I believe that up to Quebec City they may be able to handle the larger TEU ships and unload those there. Saint John may still be the better choice, but now you will have Quebec City to contend with. Then again, the container terminal in QC may not be that big of caliber to compete with SJ. I need to read more about it.

cdnguys · #89 Posted **Sep 1, 2023, 4:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Yeah when we talk about heavier ships like crude oil and other commodities, they have to dock at Quebec City and unload half of the weight/volume at the port into holding tanks. They then continue on to Montreal with that half that they kept. They unload that in Montreal and then go back to Quebec City to get the other half, reload it and then go unload that half in Montreal, just because the Saint Lawrence isn't deep enough for the heavier ships. They more than likely won't be able to handle the larger container ships though.

Then there is Quebec City that is/or has built a container terminal. I believe that up to Quebec City they may be able to handle the larger TEU ships and unload those there. Saint John may still be the better choice, but now you will have Quebec City to content with. Then again, the container terminal in QC may not be that big of caliber to compete with SJ. I need to read more about it.

I’m just an armchair enthusiast - but when you think about it there are very smart people out there that get paid the big bucks to figure out the future for business and DP World and CP wouldn’t invest tens of millions if they didn’t think the future of shipping was in SJ. The cranes alone were $50m so just maybe there will be some huge announcement that a major line will move into SJ from another port. Just got the sense it was not completely a “build it and they will come” expansion - I have a sneaking suspicion some major deal is coming brokered in the UAE

MonctonianSentinel01 · #90 Posted **Sep 1, 2023, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I’m just an armchair enthusiast - but when you think about it there are very smart people out there that get paid the big bucks to figure out the future for business and DP World and CP wouldn’t invest tens of millions if they didn’t think the future of shipping was in SJ. The cranes alone were $50m so just maybe there will be some huge announcement that a major line will move into SJ from another port. Just got the sense it was not completely a “build it and they will come” expansion - I have a sneaking suspicion some major deal is coming brokered in the UAE

For sure buddy, and awesome!

nwalbert · #91 Posted **Sep 1, 2023, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I’m just an armchair enthusiast - but when you think about it there are very smart people out there that get paid the big bucks to figure out the future for business and DP World and CP wouldn’t invest tens of millions if they didn’t think the future of shipping was in SJ. The cranes alone were $50m so just maybe there will be some huge announcement that a major line will move into SJ from another port. Just got the sense it was not completely a “build it and they will come” expansion - I have a sneaking suspicion some major deal is coming brokered in the UAE

Absolutely!! These companies are successful for their planning, not guessing. You can see the Millions that Irving has been investing as well.

Ottawa · #92 Posted **Sep 2, 2023, 5:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Yeah when we talk about heavier ships like crude oil and other commodities, they have to dock at Quebec City and unload half of the weight/volume at the port into holding tanks. They then continue on to Montreal with that half that they kept. They unload that in Montreal and then go back to Quebec City to get the other half, reload it and then go unload that half in Montreal, just because the Saint Lawrence isn't deep enough for the heavier ships. They more than likely won't be able to handle the larger container ships though.

Then there is Quebec City that is/or has built a container terminal. I believe that up to Quebec City they may be able to handle the larger TEU ships and unload those there. Saint John may still be the better choice, but now you will have Quebec City to contend with. Then again, the container terminal in QC may not be that big of caliber to compete with SJ. I need to read more about it.

Quebec City's biggest impediment is the maximum length of ships between Quebec City and Baie-Comeau is 294 meters. That's the size of the NYK ships that call on Saint John and the 13K TEU max is on the low end of the range (12-16K TEU) that are being ordered today. The other big issue is the single source (CN) rail option. So the maximum TEU size into QC is 13K and CN dictates your rates.

Quebec City will work today but it has a relatively short best-before date.

RR Drummer · #93 Posted **Sep 3, 2023, 12:39 AM**

This time last week we were traveling through New York to New Jersey and as I looked at the massive cranes and the innumerable amount of containers at the Ports there I couldn’t help but feel as sense of pride in our Port. The investment and continued development is something that is exciting as we see it unfold. Great job to the many efforts of people and businesses into the Port of Saint John.

FromMaine · #94 Posted **Sep 3, 2023, 2:26 AM**

The Quebec City "Laurentia" container port did not materialize. This is why CN is looking elsewhere right now... they also failed the bid to Halterm so they are still looking to control their own destiny on the Atlantic (not sure why if Halifax is limited for expansion at both terminals?)

For a 6000 TEU ship to make it up the St Lawrence they still can NOT fully load, as I recall they would be limited to about half. MSC ran a few up the seaway in this size but not sure if the practice has continued.

You all hit the nail on the head with the new builds, vessel sizes and draft restrictions.

Interesting video here for those who have not seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZbQrYiKLKM

MonctonianSentinel01 · #95 Posted **Sep 3, 2023, 3:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromMaine

The Quebec City "Laurentia" container port did not materialize.

Good to know. Well that's another competitor that we don't have to worry about then. I am very proud of our port city. This is great for New Brunswick as well as Saint John. Great video with the drone shots.

That pretty well only leaves Halifax as Saint John's main competitor then. There is a rumor about a port opening up in Port Hawkesbury, I guess we'll have to see if that happens. Although not sure what kind of business that will bring in. It's farther away than Halifax or Saint John so I don't think that's a plus. They like to keep it on the boat as long as possible.

Ottawa · #96 Posted **Sep 6, 2023, 2:43 AM**

There was an unusually high number of Hapag Lloyd reefers (22) on the eastbound train today. There was a total of 35 if you include UASC and generics. They probably did not have gensets... The one that I could see because of it's orientation did not have a genset.

It looks like they may be stockpiling the CMA CGM reefers from a few weeks back and I am curious to know if they are likely to do the same with these. There is a stack of what appears to be about 60 CMA CGM reefers in the immediate vicinity of the reefer plugs.

Ottawa · #97 Posted **Sep 7, 2023, 9:36 PM**

More (NOR?) reefers coming to Saint John today on the eastbound train. 24 Hapag Lloyd labelled reefers out of a total load of 89 containers. In all, there were 33 reefers on today's eastbound. That's 37% of the entire intermodal load by container. By TEU, the % is even higher.

It would be interesting to know if they keep any of these on dock after a few weeks, maybe with the current stock of CMA CGM reefers.

cdnguys · #98 Posted **Sep 8, 2023, 10:02 AM**

New cranes on port have been named Carleton and Rodney

nwalbert · #99 Posted **Sep 8, 2023, 12:10 PM**

I see that after a record shattering 2022 and a global slowdown of shipping volumes, that Port SJ is up 18% YoY through the end of July. Impressive!!

I was also reading about the Potash stress test that the Port was put under, and passed with flying colors. Apparently the port was running 24 hours, and how passed the thresholds to hire more people.

CharlotteCountyLogan · #**100** Posted **Sep 8, 2023, 12:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I see that after a record shattering 2022 and a global slowdown of shipping volumes, that Port SJ is up 18% YoY through the end of July. Impressive!!

I was also reading about the Potash stress test that the Port was put under, and passed with flying colors. Apparently the port was running 24 hours, and how passed the thresholds to hire more people.

Can you send a link to the numbers?