noirish Los Angeles

[Flyingwedge]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

The old Fort Moore Hill cemetery boundaries are a bit confusing on the map.
The cemetery property line appears to cross over onto the school property...as well as the corner of the I.O.O.F. property.


detail


And what about the I.O.O.F. parcel... -Was there ever an I.O.O.F. Hall on the property?

( Independent Order of Odd Fellows)

I believe the cemetery at some point was divided into sections, with certain groups like the IOOF having their own area.

[ScottyB]

Originally Posted by KevinW

I lived right off Oak Knoll for six months back in 1975. We were a block south of California on Cornell Rd. Used to ride my skateboard down to the mansions on Oak Knoll or to the Pantry grocery store at California and Lake. The air was so dirty it hurt to breath. We moved there in June and in November after a rain storm I was shocked to see the San Gabriel Mts looming over us. I had no idea they were there for four months...

Hey Kevin, you were my neighbor and fellow skateboarder at that time; I grew up on Oak Knoll at Ridge Way. Many a trip down what we called Kewen Canyon (more officially known as Mill Canyon) and many pleasant hours in the remnants of the natural environment still there at that time (that's why all the trees on the right side of the map).
At the mouth of the canyon is the Old Mill of the San Gabriel Mission, which surely not new to NLA (though I found little reference). This view is looking E and shows Wilson's Lake, so named as it was part of B.D.Wilson's Lake Vineyard ranch.


PDHC

For a time the Mill was used as the caddy shack for the Huntington Hotel. I believe about this era:


PDHC

Couple more Pasadena Country Club pics


PDHC


PDHC

As near as I can tell the Clubhouse was in the area along Oak Grove Ave in San Marino. I was treated to a tour at what is now called Thornton Gardens, which is a property in that area acquired by the Huntington Library and transformed into, well, a Huntington estate. Here is the Myron Hunt mansion:


scb

fancy chimney brickwork!

scb

the orchid house

scb

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by ScottyB

Hey Kevin, you were my neighbor and fellow skateboarder at that time; I grew up on Oak Knoll at Ridge Way. Many a trip down what we called Kewen Canyon (more officially known as Mill Canyon) and many pleasant hours in the remnants of the natural environment still there at that time (that's why all the trees on the right side of the map).
At the mouth of the canyon is the Old Mill of the San Gabriel Mission, which surely not new to NLA (though I found little reference). This view is looking E and shows Wilson's Lake, so named as it was part of B.D.Wilson's Lake Vineyard ranch.


PDHC


scb

Interesting report Scotty.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4345/...6d1b72_b_d.jpg

Scotty's skateboard days.....San Marino. My home was about half mile south of this location. I drove these streets to work and college.

[GatoVerde]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Interesting information OS.

the big white house wasn't at 626 Stevens Place? or did I read that wrong





Thanks for the map Hoss. -so Stevens Place was pretty much behind Los Angeles High School.

The old Fort Moore Hill cemetery boundaries are a bit confusing on the map.
The cemetery property line appears to cross over onto the school property...as well as the corner of the I.O.O.F. property.


detail

And one of the 'green' buildings has the property line going through it!



No doubt we covered this much earlier on NLA) - but this information on the cemetery bears repeating.

"Fort Moore Hill became home to a cemetery, with the first documented burial tracing back to December 19, 1853. Alternately known as Los Angeles City Cemetery, Protestant Cemetery, Fort Moore Hill Cemetery, Fort Hill Cemetery, or simply "the cemetery on the hill", it was the city's first non-Catholic cemetery.

The cemetery was overseen by the city starting in 1869. It was not well taken care of, lacking clearly delineated boundaries, complete records or adequate maintenance. The Los Angeles City Council passed a resolution on August 30, 1879, closing the cemetery to any future burials except for those with already reserved plots. By 1884, the city had sold portions of the cemetery as residential lots and the rest to the Los Angeles Board of Education (later the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The city never removed any bodies, and the former cemetery was the site of repeated, grisly findings and much negative press. As a result, the city began moving the bodies, most to Evergreen Cemetery, Rosedale Cemetery and Hollywood Memorial Park Cemetery, with the final bodies being transferred in May 1947. The recent construction of Los Angeles High School #9 resulted in the discovery of additional human remains."
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And what about the I.O.O.F. parcel... -Was there ever an I.O.O.F. Hall on the property?

( Independent Order of Odd Fellows)

I believe the designations, IOOF, IOORM, etc., were actual cemetery designations, that is, portions of the cemetery that were for burials from those groups. I don't think there were any lodges, etc.

It was an unofficial cemetery as it was created for people who did not want to bury their dead in the Catholic cemetery, which in the early part of the city history was the only official option. The Jewish cemetery also existed at the site of the Naval Reserve center in Elysian Park, but of course, that cemetery was exclusive.

At first the City Cemetery was rather undisturbed, but when development began on Fort Hill the cemetery reduced in size (without removal of many dead) and the new reduced boundaries were mapped and apportioned.

[GatoVerde]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

I don't believe we have seen J.B. Hunter's Texas Tamales.


one last photo

CSL


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Just noticing the similarities in wagon construction, although the tamale wagon seems to have more container volume.

A&Z Nuts is still in business, and the wagon still remains.

[GatoVerde]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Tom, the Tamale Man has made an appearance on NLA, but I don't believe we have seen the guy shown below.



https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/479774166526858124/

"Tamales in Highland Park, 1885"

Any idea what a 'cornucopia' would be.....perhaps a tamale with everything?

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And it appears there yet another early L.A. tamale entrepreneur:

http://www.xlntfoods.com/a-little-xlnt-history/

[ScottyB]

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug

Interesting report Scotty.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4345/...6d1b72_b_d.jpg

Scotty's skateboard days.....San Marino. My home was about half mile south of this location. I drove these streets to work and college.

Another neighbor! How 'bout that. This was our house, actually. I imagine at least one of you can guess the architect.


Michael Locke

[odinthor]

Originally Posted by GatoVerde

And it appears there yet another early L.A. tamale entrepreneur:

http://www.xlntfoods.com/a-little-xlnt-history/

Tamale vendors came to have their detractors:


Los Angeles Times, July 25, 1906, via ProQuest via CSULB Library.

About the "Cornucopia," could it be a tamale filled with . . . corn?

[GatoVerde]

Originally Posted by odinthor

Tamale vendors came to have their detractors:


Los Angeles Times, July 25, 1906, via ProQuest via CSULB Library.

About the "Cornucopia," could it be a tamale filled with . . . corn?

A pioneer tamale man, from From p.392, [1869] Newmark, Sixty Years in Southern California [1869]

"Who was more familiar both to the youth of the town and to grown-ups than Nicolas Martinez, in summer the purveyor of cooling ice cream, in winter the vender of hot tamales! From morning till night, month in and month out during the sixties and seventies, Martinez paced the streets, his dark skin made still swarthier in contrast to his white costume a shirt, scarcely tidy, together with pantaloons none too symmetrical and hanging down in generous folds at the waist. On his head, in true native fashion, he balanced in a small hooped tub what he had for sale; he spoke with a pronounced Latin accent, and his favorite method of announcing his presence was to bawl out his wares. The same receptacle, resting upon a round board with an opening to ease the load and covered with a bunch of cloths, served both to keep the tamales hot and the ice cream cool ; while to dispense the latter, he carried in one hand a circular iron tray, in which were holes to accommodate three or four glasses. Further, for the convenience of the exacting youth of the town, he added a spoon to each cream-filled glass ; and what stray speck of the ice was left on the spoon after the youngster had given it a parting lick, Nicolas, bawling anew to attract the next customer, fastidiously removed with his tobacco-stained fingers."

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by GatoVerde

And it appears there yet another early L.A. tamale entrepreneur:


http://www.xlntfoods.com/a-little-xlnt-history/

I hadn't heard of XLNT until your post GV (I grew up in the midwest), but their tamales appear to have a huge following among Californians.
From what I read, the tamales were served in Los Angeles area school cafeterias in the 1950s and 60s. (hence the nostalgic adoration)
I'm curious..do any of you NLAers that grew up in the Los Angeles area remember them?



ocweekly
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here's a nifty pic.

In this photograph of Phillipe's you'll notice a metal steamer of XNLT tamales on the counter. (at least I think it's a steamer)


afcaforum

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[ethereal_reality]

626 Stevens Place and the Tamale Factory

I noticed the 'rooms' to the left of the tamale factory. -no doubt for his vendors or tamale cooks(?)

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge

also, that one small square building appears to have been built over the property line. why is that?
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[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by ScottyB

At the mouth of the canyon is the Old Mill of the San Gabriel Mission. This view is looking E and shows Wilson's Lake.


PDHC

This is such a great photograph ScottyB.


This pic isn't nearly as clear, but it show the opposite side (around 1890s)


https://calisphere.org/item/917bec8e...974d9483cb552/

Originally Posted by ScottyB

For a time the Mill was used as the caddy shack for the Huntington Hotel.

I'd like to hear more about this
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[Otis Criblecoblis]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

I hadn't heard of XLNT until your post GV (I grew up in the midwest), but their tamales appear to have a huge following among Californians.
From what I read, the tamales were served in Los Angeles area school cafeterias in the 1950s and 60s. (hence the nostalgic adoration)
I'm curious..do any of you NLAers that grew up in the Los Angeles area remember them?

XLNT Tamales have never left us! The company is now located in San Marcos, down in San Diego County, and according to their Web site (http://www.xlntfoods.com), their products are found mostly in Southern California, with a few outlets in Arizona and Nevada.

While their sodium content makes them as a practical matter off-limits to me nowadays, I ate them quite frequently as a boy. They are made of a smooth, dense chili encased in masa. They are junk food, but they are tasty.

I recall that when I was a boy, they were so cheap that I could afford them easily on my modest allowance. Then, when the hyper-inflation of the Seventies first hit, they seemed to double or triple in price overnight.

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

I hadn't heard of XLNT until your post GV (I grew up in the midwest), but their tamales appear to have a huge following among Californians.
From what I read, the tamales were served in Los Angeles area school cafeterias in the 1950s and 60s. (hence the nostalgic adoration)
I'm curious..do any of you NLAers that grew up in the Los Angeles area remember them?



ocweekly
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XLNT Tamales are mediocre at best. They seem to be made of ''mystery'' ground meat. No texture...if you know what I mean.

Best tamales are made of meat that you can see and identify with your eyes.

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by ScottyB

Another neighbor! How 'bout that. This was our house, actually. I imagine at least one of you can guess the architect.


Michael Locke

Let me quess.....is this a Heineman....just a wild guess.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4436/...3cfe16_b_d.jpg

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by ScottyB

Another neighbor! How 'bout that. This was our house, actually. I imagine at least one of you can guess the architect.


Michael Locke

Arthur Heineman...Pasadena developer.

[Lomara]

This thing is amazing.

I immediately noticed how the map pointed out Dutch Harbor in the Aleutians as a target. I learned this year (through the male soap opera (i mean reality show) I watch, "Deadliest Catch") that the Japanese did occupy the base there for a time. I had no idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dutch_Harbor

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Here you go Martin. (the 1600 x 1200 size is still difficult to read...the next choice jumps up to this RIDICULOUS size)

Should I delete it?

Gargantuan Image removed

Does anyone have a tip how I can find a suitable
size between 1600 x 1200 and the 'Full Size'?
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Click on link below / with help from Flyingwedge

1937 Invasion Map

[ethereal_reality]

Here is another 'invasion' map written in Japanese. [1941]

David Rumsey Map Collection

I would like someone to translate what is written beneath the large battleship just off the California coast.

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[Earl Boebert]

The general shape of the Pacific War was predicted in 1925 by a British journalist (and probable spook) named Hector Bywater:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Charles_Bywater

I have copies of both his "The Great Pacific War" and William Honan's biography of him, "Visions of Infamy."

As Honan shows, it turns out that if you have a copy of "Jane's Fighting Ships" for that period and plot steaming ranges, etc. on a chart of the Pacific, there are relatively few ways that events could unfold.

Cheers,

Earl

[ethereal_reality]

remember this...

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

'mystery' location

This cabinet card is from an old file of mine. It's simply labeled Los Angeles vicinity.

ebay

The tallest part of the house appears to be octogonal. Does anyone have an idea where this might have been located?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



I thought I might have found it's location this afternoon.

Original 1887 Sierra Madre City Library on Central Ave, renamed Sierra Madre Blvd in 1936.

-this was also the Sierra Madre Congregational Church temporary meeting place in 1889."


http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Old_North...re,_California)


Close but no Cigar.
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