PHILADELPHIA | 30th Street Station District | 1,200 FT - 180 FT | 85 - 12 FLOORS

[echoorbiter]

Originally Posted by TK2001

That has to be from River Drive in Westville NJ.

[wanderer34]

As much as I love this proposal, I don't see it coming to fruition. I know its supposed to come in different phases, but the problem isn't the proposal itself, but its really the fact that every time some proposal comes into town (the great American Commerce Center which would've given the city the tallest tower not only in PA, but in America for at least a couple of years until the Freedom Tower is fully erected is one, as well as the old Center City Tower, which would've been Comcast's HQ, the SLS hotel on Broad and Spruce, and the Mandeville Tower, and the unfinished Waterfront Square), it either never gets built, it gets delayed like the SLS, or in the case of the ACC, it goes through red tape, NIMBYism, bureaucracy, and corruption and corporate welfare a la Comcast, so that proposal dies in favor for another corporate tower like the CITC.

The problem with Philadelphia is that although it's a beautiful city with a lot of amenities (the Art Museum, Fairmount Park, South Street, Manayunk, South Philly,and the SportsComplex), the city still has a major inferiority complex and it's business structure and its business taxes are going to be a major hindrance in getting this entire proposal into reality. I was a major booster for the ACC, and to this day, I believe the had the ACC gotten built, it would not have just radically changed the face of Philadelphia as a major world class city in America, but it would've helped Philadelphia with it's economy as well since the ACC was designed to attract a major company to the city.

Philadelphia cannot survive on the backs of Comcast alone. I predict Aramark might leave the city in the near future to Washington DC or some other city, we couldn't retain Santander (formerly SovereignBank) and they leave to Boston, and Crown Cork and Seal might go the way of being a subsidiary like Pepboys and Rohm and Haas are!!! As long as we have the tax structure that Philadelphia has plus the nimbyism, the negativity, the corruption, and the parochialism that permeates Philadelphia,since the ACC couldn't get built, the Schuylkill Yards is only going to be a huge figure of our imagination!!!

I'm currently in SF, and the city doesn't need a huge skyline like NYC and Chicago, because it has many hills and views which is it's strongest points plus it has a great troll and light rail system (Muni), and an even better, albeit expensive commuter system (BART), which links not only Oakland, Berkeley, and Richmond, but will link with San Jose in a few months , as well as commuter rail lines suck as Caltrain and even commuter rail lines gong from San Jose to Sacramento, and even Marin County has its own commuter rail system. The Bay Area is light years ahead when it comes to not only retaining businesses like Wells Fargo, TheGap, Levi's, and Uber, but it has the best mass transit system in the West Coast, and is on par with NYC, Chicago, Boston, and DC when it comes to total infrastructure.

Philadelphia had a great mass transit system with the PRR and the Reading Railroad, but once SEPTA came to be, those diesel lines going to Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Reading, Lancaster, and West Chester have been mothballed and won't even come back because PA is a very parochial and cannibalistic state which doesn't even prop up it's biggest city in favor of rural areas. If Philadelphia doesn't get dropped off the Top 10 American cities by 2020, it's definitely going to happen by 2030!!!

[Urbanthusiat]

Nephew. 2020+ isn’t going to look like the second half of the 20th century for Philly. Things don’t stay the same forever. If it isn’t obvious to you at this point that Philly is in a good position to be successful in the 21st century then you can’t be helped. You’ve got exactly the “inferiority complex” that you’re claiming to hate. Thanks for adding nothing to the forum.

[mcgrath618]

While I can’t speak for any of the other lines, SEPTA is currently rebuilding WaWa station with the intent to return to West Chester, and have sunk millions into evaluating a return to Quakertown and Phoenixville.

[SJPhillyBoy]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Nephew. 2020+ isn’t going to look like the second half of the 20th century for Philly. Things don’t stay the same forever. If it isn’t obvious to you at this point that Philly is in a good position to be successful in the 21st century then you can’t be helped. You’ve got exactly the “inferiority complex” that you’re claiming to hate. Thanks for adding nothing to the forum.

[City Wide]

To wanderer34

Even for those who think the 30th Station plan is the best idea since sliced bread, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone to expects to see this concept developed, even the first stages of it, any time soon. (of course if Amazon comes to Schuylkill Yards that might change things) Amtrak seems to be having all sorts of problems and issues even finding a partner to work with them in coming up with marketable proposals for the actual station and it's immediate surroundings. The idea of putting up a tower at 30th & JFK (to be built over active tracks) has gone no where. This is certainly not the first rational proposal for this area, and won't be the last. A new team with new eyes and a new vision comes up with a new plan about every 10 to 15 years.

All I'm saying is that as interesting as this latest exercise in futuristic planning for what could be built north of the station might be, it's not happening, and that has very little to do with your other criticisms of the building and development environment in Philly. The tower shown in the drawings could be twice as tall or half as tall and that wouldn't effect its changes of getting built.

Even if Amtrak handed over the land to a developer free of charge it would still be a extremely expense site to build on. Besides the fact that much of the proposed site is over active tracks, there is also no public utilities. That's not even considering if there would be demand for additional office space in the area.

Other then that, it seems that you are saying 'taxes are too high' and the City doesn't bend over backwards to welcome any and all development. While I somewhat disagree with those premises, that opinion is hardly new 'news'.

[iheartphilly]

^
And, building over the tracks is a nice talking point and far from reality due to even more costs that will be born by the developer. The cost to develop in Philly is in line with NYC construction costs but we don't command the same rent as NYC and adding any additional infrastructure cost over the track is cost prohibitive. That will be a real major hurdle. Also, land is not scarce for development in Philly. Further, philly isn't busting at the seams for new office towers and we have plenty of land all around the city for development and we sometimes have to compete with Philly suburbs for the businesses looking for a new building.

In terms of Schuykill Yards, it is very attractive and basically a clean slate for a very large company or companies in the same industry that need multiple office towers and is designated as KOZ as a benefit to those companies that chose it for development. Bottom line: we need to land more new major businesses to get any further towers built, especially at SY.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^


In terms of Schuykill Yards, it is very attractive and basically a clean slate for a very large company or companies in the same industry that need multiple office towers and is designated as KOZ as a benefit to those companies that chose it for development. Bottom line: we need to land more new major businesses to get any further towers built, especially at SY.

I am not aware of where these companies major offices are located or how many new borns would have to be sacrificed in
order to entice there moving to SY .... but , my major tenant list could include the likes of house hold names such as ,

Alphabet / Costco / American Express / Johnson&Johnson / 3M / UPS / Procter&Gamble / IBM , and others I don't want to
take up anymore space to list .

However , weather Amazon ever gets around to sweeping away all the bull shit and finally picks a location , it might not be a
bad idea to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket .

Obviously , I am probably the last person to think of , or have a similar list but it surely must beat stagnation .

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

I am not aware of where these companies major offices are located or how many new borns would have to be sacrificed in
order to entice there moving to SY .... but , my major tenant list could include the likes of house hold names such as ,

Alphabet / Costco / American Express / Johnson&Johnson / 3M / UPS / Procter&Gamble / IBM , and others I don't want to
take up anymore space to list .

However , weather Amazon ever gets around to sweeping away all the bull shit and finally picks a location , it might not be a
bad idea to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket .

Obviously , I am probably the last person to think of , or have a similar list but it surely must beat stagnation .

I don't think many established Fortune 500 companies are likely to relocate to Philadelphia, Schuylkill Yards notwithstanding. With few exceptions, companies only move out-of-state and uproot their entire workforce to go to a low tax and low regulatory environment or because insane incentives are thrown at them. Philly will never tick those boxes the way other places do. Our success and growth will come by drawing companies from the suburbs and nearby (which happens but not nearly enough) and growing startups that become successful and remain, including companies that don't yet exist. Comcast was homegrown, and any future Comcasts are also likely to be homegrown, Amazon notwithstanding. We need to continue to improve our tax and regulatory environment and that will help us be successful, but we're never going to be Florida or Texas as far as taxes and regulation, and we probably shouldn't be.

[Boku]

https://media.amtrak.com/2018/11/amt...street-statio/

AMTRAK NARROWS SEARCH FOR MASTER DEVELOPER FOR WILLIAM H. GRAY III 30TH STREET STATION

PHILADELPHIA – As part of the ongoing work to enhance the customer experience at the William H. Gray III 30th Street Station, Amtrak narrowed the list to four teams that will compete to be selected as Master Developer to update the historic station.

Several firms responded to a Request for Qualification (RFQ), and those who are on the list are the following, in alphabetical order:

Brandywine Realty Trust: Brandywine, Pelli Clarke, Pelli Architects, WSP, CBRE
G30 Collaborative: Meridiam, Gensler, Gannett Fleming, Turner Construction, Aramark, MarketPlace, WeWork
PHL 30 Vision LLC: JLL, FXCollaborative, AKF, Pennoni, ARUP, Jingoli, JLL
Plenary Infrastructure PHL: Plenary, SOM, Pennoni, Arora, Urban, AKRF, Gilbane Building, Johnson Controls, Vantage, Republic

The announcement of the four teams is part of the process that will result in the selection of a preferred developer who will assist in: introducing new customer amenities, reinvigorating the retail and commercial potential of the station, enhancing transit and pedestrian traffic flow, and expanding the station’s concourses to accommodate anticipated increases in ridership.

“The selection of the four teams is a significant milestone, as it represents the next step in realizing the future vision of the William H. Gray III 30th Street Station,” Amtrak Senior Program Manager Natalie Shieh said. “By partnering with the right development team, Amtrak will update this major transportation hub as a world-class gateway for the traveling public and Philadelphia.”

The nearly 100-year-old facility is the third busiest station in Amtrak’s national system, serving more than 4 million Amtrak customers and more than 8 million combined SEPTA and NJ TRANSIT rail commuters annually. Amtrak recently made capital investments at the William H. Gray III 30th Street Station totaling more than $100 million, including the current refurbishment of the building facade, improvements to the public restrooms, replacement of the customer elevators and escalators, and restoration of the historic bronze entrance doors.

The next step in the process will be a Request for Proposals from the four teams, with a Master Developer decision by Amtrak in 2019.

Learn more about these and many other infrastructure investments that Amtrak is leading at nec.amtrak.com.

I don't see anything about building tall-ass buildings, smh.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Boku

I don't see anything about building tall-ass buildings, smh.

Redoing the station was always supposed to be the first step. And it makes sense. Build the station and surrounding public space to make it more attractive to companies who would then fill the towers. It makes it easier for tenants to visualize the area's potential, and easier for them to see themselves using Septa/Amtrak everyday. Glad to see them resuming progress on this. This will be transformative for Philadelphia.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^I don't think anyone paying attention is expecting any tower(s) to be built in the 30th Street District any time soon (and not until SY is built out). The one exception that I can think of is that small hole over the tracks directly across 30th St. and adjacent to the original Cira Centre. That might be a cost effective spot to build sooner rather than later.

[iheartphilly]

[QUOTE=Boku;8385359]https://media.amtrak.com/2018/11/amt...street-statio/

AMTRAK NARROWS SEARCH FOR MASTER DEVELOPER FOR WILLIAM H. GRAY III 30TH STREET STATION

The G30 group looks very interesting. You've got a French developer in the mix. You don't see those everyday here in Philly for big construction projects. Anyone know of their projects, current or in the past?

[Nova08]

This is just a first step in a multi-decade project that includes redesigning streets, new traffic patterns, redesigning the "porch" area around the station, modernizing the eateries and shops within the station.

[Philly Fan]

SEPTA’s 30th Street stop getting an upgrade thanks to federal grant

[iheartphilly]

^
The article is not clear. What exactly is being done with the $37 million by 2020? And, I'm frustrated that it will take to 2 years to complete. Not only is infrastructure bad but what's worse is the amount of time it takes for it to be replaced or repaired. SMH.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
The article is not clear. What exactly is being done with the $37 million by 2020? And, I'm frustrated that it will take to 2 years to complete. Not only is infrastructure bad but what's worse is the amount of time it takes for it to be replaced or repaired. SMH.

From the article, I would guess this:

SEPTA’s upgrades for the subway station include a new elevator at 30th Street, a new head house at the stairway near 31st Street, platform widening, and new escalators.

and possibly this:

The 30th Street Station improvements also include plans to reopen and renovate a tunnel connecting the subway and five trolley lines that intersect there to the Amtrak station.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
The article is not clear. What exactly is being done with the $37 million by 2020? And, I'm frustrated that it will take to 2 years to complete. Not only is infrastructure bad but what's worse is the amount of time it takes for it to be replaced or repaired. SMH.

It's nearly 2019 and you're complaining about a $37 million upgrade to be completed "by 2020."

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
The article is not clear. What exactly is being done with the $37 million by 2020? And, I'm frustrated that it will take to 2 years to complete. Not only is infrastructure bad but what's worse is the amount of time it takes for it to be replaced or repaired. SMH.

There's no doubt a significant amount of engineering work/planning that has to go into such a substantial project. The 2020 timeline actually seems quite aggressive.

I'm also very perplexed by your "frustration"--since when is receiving substantial federal dollars for a major public transit improvement (especially with the current administration) considered a "bad" thing?

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

There's no doubt a significant amount of engineering work/planning that has to go into such a substantial project. The 2020 timeline actually seems quite aggressive.

I'm also very perplexed by your "frustration"--since when is receiving substantial federal dollars for a major public transit improvement (especially with the current administration) considered a "bad" thing?

Is there a public bid site for this project and a scope of work for the project. I like to see it. Also, you may of misinterpreted what I said. I'm not frustrated by public/private funding for the project-I'm actually a big believer that more federal funding is needed to repair our infrastructure, but the timeline to get the project completed is my only frustration.