California High Speed Rail Thread

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by pesto

It's hard to imagine how one group could have enraged everyone from the upscale left on the Peninsula to the down and dirty right of Bako and King's County. Not exactly natural allies. But HSR managed to do it.

This is California. You're aren't succeeding unless everyone sues you.

CAHSR must be doing something right.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by pesto

It's hard to imagine how one group could have enraged everyone from the upscale left on the Peninsula to the down and dirty right of Bako and King's County. Not exactly natural allies. But HSR managed to do it.

Simple. They're N-I-M-B-Y-s...

[fflint]

They're NIMBY scum.

[M II A II R II K]

U.S. Transportation Secretary LaHood Awards Nearly $1 Billion for California High-Speed Rail Construction


November 22, 2011

Read More: http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2011/fra3711.html

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today awarded a $928.6 million grant to the California High-Speed Rail Authority for initial construction of California High-Speed Rail. Construction will begin next year in Fresno, creating tens of thousands of jobs in California. “California’s population will grow by 60 percent over the next 40 years,” said Secretary LaHood. “Investing in a green, job creating high-speed rail network is less expensive and more practical than paying for all of the expansions to already congested highways and airports that would be necessary to accommodate the state’s projected population boom.”

Today’s grant, when combined with voter-approved state support and previously-awarded federal dollars, will fund the construction of the first usable segment of the California system in the Central Valley. In the recently released business plan, the Authority embraced a phased implementation similar to those used for international systems. The first construction project will put more than 100,000 people to work during the next five years. Over the course of the network’s construction, more than one million jobs are expected to be created, and the economic activity spurred by the new system is expected to add up to 450,000 new non-high-speed rail jobs to the California economy by 2040.

.....

[202_Cyclist]

California Bullet Train Project Advances Amid Cries of Boondoggle

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
NY Times
11/26/2011


(Jim Wilson/The New York Times) Gov. Jerry Brown says the high-speed rail line will avoid “the huge problems of massive airport and highway expansion.”

"SACRAMENTO — Across the country, the era of ambitious public works projects seems to be over. Governments are shelving or rejecting plans for highways, railroads and big buildings under the weight of collapsing revenues and voters’ resistance.

But not California.

With a brashness and ambition that evoke a California of a generation ago, state leaders — starting with Gov. Jerry Brown — have rallied around a plan to build a 520-mile high-speed rail line from Los Angeles to San Francisco, cutting the trip from a six-hour drive to a train ride of two hours and 38 minutes. And they are doing it in the face of what might seem like insurmountable political and fiscal obstacles..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/us...pagewanted=all

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

California Bullet Train Project Advances Amid Cries of Boondoggle

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
NY Times
11/26/2011


(Jim Wilson/The New York Times) Gov. Jerry Brown says the high-speed rail line will avoid “the huge problems of massive airport and highway expansion.”

"SACRAMENTO — Across the country, the era of ambitious public works projects seems to be over. Governments are shelving or rejecting plans for highways, railroads and big buildings under the weight of collapsing revenues and voters’ resistance.

But not California.

With a brashness and ambition that evoke a California of a generation ago, state leaders — starting with Gov. Jerry Brown — have rallied around a plan to build a 520-mile high-speed rail line from Los Angeles to San Francisco, cutting the trip from a six-hour drive to a train ride of two hours and 38 minutes. And they are doing it in the face of what might seem like insurmountable political and fiscal obstacles..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/us...pagewanted=all

I'm sick of politicians that steal our taxpayers money.

[202_Cyclist]

Skyscraperfan23:

I'm sick of politicians that steal our taxpayers money."

Yes, RepuB(P)lican politicians who will close schools and lay off police and firefighters or who will let our roads and transit crumble so that the wealthiest 2% who have 25 percent of our nation's wealth have even more massive tax cuts disgust me.

[JDRCRASH]

There's no reason, NONE, why the United States can put a man on the moon, or develop the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world, yet can't build the greatest high-speed train network in the world...


I'm sick of this bullshit...

[Yankee]

At first I was terrified at the prospect of the initial stretch being built in the central valley. People in LA don't use trains, let alone people in Bakersfield or Modesto, ridership would literally be in the double digits per day and that's a high speed train. I mean that's analogous to building a subway under a corn field.

But now I actually think it's brilliant. You build this initial stretch and then you just gotta build the rest no matter what. And it's even better it's not connecting LA or SF to the central valley, by making it going from nowhere to nowhere you are forcing the project to expand quickly and in both directions. By 2030 a lot of things will change in Southern California I think, the region will continue to get denser and more public transit will continue to be built.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Yankee

At first I was terrified at the prospect of the initial stretch being built in the central valley. People in LA don't use trains, let alone people in Bakersfield or Modesto, ridership would literally be in the double digits per day and that's a high speed train. I mean that's analogous to building a subway under a corn field.

But now I actually think it's brilliant. You build this initial stretch and then you just gotta build the rest no matter what. And it's even better it's not connecting LA or SF to the central valley, by making it going from nowhere to nowhere you are forcing the project to expand quickly and in both directions. By 2030 a lot of things will change in Southern California I think, the region will continue to get denser and more public transit will continue to be built.

people in LA dont use trains? 350,000 boardings a day and growing isnt insignificant.

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by Yankee

At first I was terrified at the prospect of the initial stretch being built in the central valley. People in LA don't use trains, let alone people in Bakersfield or Modesto, ridership would literally be in the double digits per day and that's a high speed train. I mean that's analogous to building a subway under a corn field.

Double digits per day in the valley?

Then explain how the much slower San Joaquin rail service carries 3,000+ a day in the valley?

It seems like you know very little about the market you are talking about, especially the absurd claim that people in LA dont use trains. Almost half a million do, every day.

[edluva]

god hsr is never going to take off is it? i'm losing my patience with this increasingly backwards country.

[NYonward]

People who cry boondoggle or "misspent money" have 2 things in common: no sense of history and no vision for the future. I hope California wins this and gets this thing going.

[202_Cyclist]

NYonward:

People who cry boondoggle or "misspent money" have 2 things in common: no sense of history and no vision for the future. I hope California wins this and gets this thing going.

Exactly right. The revised business plan predicts the LA - SF route will be completed in 2033. The interstate highways built in the 1950s - 1960s are still in service today, more than 50 years later. California already has 38M people, and is as dense statewide as Spain (which has a successful high speed rail network). CA in 2080 will have more than 60M people. First, it is debatable whether there is room in the state to build all the new highway lanes and new runways to accomodate another 20M - 25M people. Second, even if you could, there would likely be crippling congestion.

Many of these people who also think efficient, modern, passenger rail is a boondoggle, have no problem at all spending $100B or more on new hihgway capacity.

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Many of these people who also think efficient, modern, passenger rail is a boondoggle, have no problem at all spending $100B or more on new hihgway capacity.

On that note... Boston spent $15 billion on undergrounding about 1 mile of freeway. Imagine how much it would cost to add another 10 lanes to I-5 from SF to LA.

Anyone care to calc the costs? I bet the land acquisitions alone would top the 10s of billions of $$$.

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Skyscraperfan23:

I'm sick of politicians that steal our taxpayers money."

Yes, RepuB(P)lican politicians who will close schools and lay off police and firefighters or who will let our roads and transit crumble so that the wealthiest 2% who have 25 percent of our nation's wealth have even more massive tax cuts disgust me.

Both Parties disgusts me and quit blaming republicans(they are corrupt as well), they are both the same to me.
that is why I Left the democratic party in 2007, cause they are just as corrupt as the rest
(throwing impeachment off the table and continuing to fund disgusting immoral wars)

and this HSR is a taxpayer spending bill crap that I Will not paying for.
good thing rick scott killed it in our state for good reason, i'm sick of the leftist agenda, they are just as bad as the neocons.

Shatter the left/right paradigm.

i'm a libertarian and government should stay out of people's lives

Why spent money on a HSR that we don't have, Big Government stinks and It doesn't work.

[skyscraperfan23]

And guess what high speed rail is come from?

You guess it, China., good grief

Now I Enjoy high speed rail as much as everybody else, I Think it's a great alternative to the other stuff, but, it's a wasteful taxpayer spending project that we can afford

Stop wasteful government spending.

[JDRCRASH]

I hate to say it, because the truth is, most regions in the US absolutely deserve HSR...

However... if things don't improve until 2013 (assuming BO gets reelected), and the GOP congress moves to try and take back the $12 Billion allocation to HSR (they're already pushing to take back CHSR's portion), should the idea of diverting all of it to California be considered?

I mean, I know it sounds unfair (and it is), but would getting a fully functioning system up and running from say, San Jose to Palmdale/Sylmar (think Caltrain and Metrolink), as soon as possible be a good choice, and would send good signals to Washington that HSR is a worthy investment... and as a result, spark "real" investments (not $50 Billion, but more like $250 Billion) in HSR projects all around the country?

[drifting sun]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

And guess what high speed rail is come from?

You guess it, China., good grief

Now I Enjoy high speed rail as much as everybody else, I Think it's a great alternative to the other stuff, but, it's a wasteful taxpayer spending project that we can afford

Stop wasteful government spending.

You know what's worse than either Republicans or Democrats? Libertarians. Libertarians with their vague rants about "stop wasteful spending"...."government stay out of our lives"...."I'm a Libertarian and thus, rise above the muck of both political parties"....ad nauseum. Amidst your typical vague Libertarian ranting exists gross inaccuracies. High speed rail has been successfully implemented in Europe and Japan for decades, long before China got on the bandwagon; at least strive for some semblance of historical accuracy when spewing your Libertarian dogma. Also, you don't make sense at all when you profess (falsely, I presume) to being a fan of HSR as an alternative, while at the same time bashing it as a "a complete waste of taxpayer's money".

[pesto]

Originally Posted by drifting sun

You know what's worse than either Republicans or Democrats? Libertarians. Libertarians with their vague rants about "stop wasteful spending"...."government stay out of our lives"...."I'm a Libertarian and thus, rise above the muck of both political parties"....ad nauseum. Amidst your typical vague Libertarian ranting exists gross inaccuracies. High speed rail has been successfully implemented in Europe and Japan for decades, long before China got on the bandwagon; at least strive for some semblance of historical accuracy when spewing your Libertarian dogma. Also, you don't make sense at all when you profess (falsely, I presume) to being a fan of HSR as an alternative, while at the same time bashing it as a "a complete waste of taxpayer's money".

You realize you are doing the same as what you are criticizing? Do you understand the difference between Europe and California? Start with differences in urban centralization, density, car ownership, gas prices, disposable income level, distance between cities, parking availability, air alternatives, etc.

All things consdered, HSR makes a lot of sense in the 3rd world, much of Europe and in the Northeast US but much less in California.