Paris Set to Quadruple in Size

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There is a visa to stay in France more than 3 months.

And a person who really wants to live in Paris would care for that? Or more specifically, the elite of a 21 million people metropolis with a GDP per capita above US$ 20,000 would have problems to get a residence permit?

Rich people (and even middle class) from São Paulo keep living in their neighbourhoods in São Paulo and travel to Paris, London or wherever the place as many times they want and then come back home. I know you have the numbers of people flying between São Paulo and Paris every year. You can figure it out.

[New Brisavoine]

Take a shower and breathe. Your life is not at threat.

It's a fact of life Brazilians move more to the First World than we move to Brazil. Now if you wish to deny that, what can I say...

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Take a shower and breathe. Your life is not at threat.

It's a fact of life Brazilians move more to the First World than we move to Brazil. Now if you wish to deny that, what can I say...

Errr... what? Brazil has one of the smallest share of people living abroad in the world. It's like 0.5% or so. And that's not even the issue here.

I just stated the obvious: even poor people in poor countries can move abroad if they want to easily. Paris is an example of that. And you suggest me or rich people in São Paulo couldn't move to Paris if we wanted to? Ok then...

Anyway, my original point was very simple: I like to live in the best districts a place can offer, no matter if it's in Londrina, São Paulo, Paris or Cochinchina.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Errr... what? Brazil has one of the smallest share of people living abroad in the world. It's like 0.5% or so. And that's not even the issue here.

In the EU alone, there were more than 550,000 Brazilian-born people living there at the 2011 EU censuses.

These are the main countries of destination:
- Portugal: 139,700 Brazilian-born lived in Portugal in 2011
- Spain: 101,600
- Italy: 83,600
- France: 56,700
- UK: 52,200
- Germany: 47,600

There's a reason why so many Brazilians migrate to the First World. You won't find such a high number of Europeans moving to the Tropics (despite the obvious attraction of sunnier and warmer climates).

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In the EU alone, there were more than 550,000 Brazilian-born people living there at the 2011 EU censuses.

These are the main countries of destination:
- Portugal: 139,700 Brazilian-born lived in Portugal in 2011
- Spain: 101,600
- Italy: 83,600
- France: 56,700
- UK: 52,200
- Germany: 47,600

There's a reason why so many Brazilians migrate to the First World. You won't find such a high number of Europeans moving to the Tropics (despite the obvious attraction of sunnier and warmer climates).

Yes, and 1 million or so worldwide. 0.5% of the total population, one of the lowest % in the world. And how we got into this discussion, it's a mistery!

P.S. There are over 300,000 Portuguese in Brazil or 3% of Portugal's population.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Errr... what? Brazil has one of the smallest share of people living abroad in the world. It's like 0.5% or so. And that's not even the issue here.

I just stated the obvious: even poor people in poor countries can move abroad if they want to easily. Paris is an example of that. And you suggest me or rich people in São Paulo couldn't move to Paris if we wanted to? Ok then...

Anyway, my original point was very simple: I like to live in the best districts a place can offer, no matter if it's in Londrina, São Paulo, Paris or Cochinchina.

Tons of wealthy Brazilians live in Miami and NYC. It seems that many of the wealthiest families live in global cities, while still maintaining business interests in Brazil. The NY Times just had an article on this phenomenon-

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/re...hy-towers.html

[mousquet]

The tiny bit of Brazil showing off the British flag is so eager to show how wealthy it actually is... It only makes me smiling. It's a deeply unsexy, unstylish attitude. No wonder people over here are so embarrassed whenever a random talk comes to their money. Still we already know Brazil is going to do better and better anyhow...

Well hey, it's only money, huh. Nothing much more than your penis or your cunt, really.
Money may be a powerful engine indeed, but not that real damn orgasm you're so obviously desperately seeking.
Use your brains first and foremost, dear folks and bros.

[10023]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Well these houses in the picture are only 5.8 km (3.6 miles) from the Champs-Elysées. That's the same distance as between 125th Street and Midtown Manhattan. Tell me what's the rationale of not even looking for housing in this neighborhood just because back in 1860 it wasn't included in the administrative borders of the City of Paris? It would be the same as if the administrative border of New York City was on 59th street, and the foreign journalist moving to NYC would refuse to even consider looking for housing north of 59th on the ground that it's "the suburbs", and then complain about how hard it is to find an apartment in NYC (i.e. the area south of 59th), and how limited the housing stock is in NYC, a "museum frozen in time" (quote and quote).

Well, I wouldn't live above 59th Street in NYC (actually I wouldn't live above 30th).

New Brisavoine, it has nothing to do with how many km one is from the Champs Élysées as the crow flies (and what exactly is so interesting about that anyway?). Does the neighborhood in the foreground above look and feel like the Marais or Latin Quarter? Does it have the restaurants and nightlife of SoPi or Bastille? Can I live in an early 19th c. apartment with high ceilings and parquet floors and windows that open to the street in nice weather?

If the answer to those things is no (and you know that it is), then it is not the Paris that I or many others would move to from abroad. I didn't move to London to live in Wimbledon or Chiswick either.

I know there are some very nice parts of suburban Paris. There are nice areas in suburban London or NY or Chicago or Boston. But to go back to the WSJ article that started this discussion, that doesn't mean they are the same thing as central Paris neighborhoods, or a substitute for the type of place I describe above, which, as the article says, are in finite supply and now very expensive.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Tons of wealthy Brazilians live in Miami and NYC. It seems that many of the wealthiest families live in global cities, while still maintaining business interests in Brazil. The NY Times just had an article on this phenomenon-

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/re...hy-towers.html

That's not the case at all. Most of Brazilian billionaires and multi-millionaires live in Brazil and keep their businesses running from here: bankers, industrials, agribusinessmen, etc.

Those who live in Miami/NYC are mostly very low profile upper middle-classers.

Originally Posted by mousquet

The tiny bit of Brazil showing off the British flag is so eager to show how wealthy it actually is... It only makes me smiling. It's a deeply unsexy, unstylish attitude. No wonder people over here are so embarrassed whenever a random talk comes to their money. Still we already know Brazil is going to do better and better anyhow...

Well hey, it's only money, huh. Nothing much more than your penis or your cunt, really.
Money may be a powerful engine indeed, but not that real damn orgasm you're so obviously desperately seeking.
Use your brains first and foremost, dear folks and bros.

Dear, I don't know where your hatred come from. It must be hard to live with all this bitterness and vulgarity.

I didn't say or implied I'm wealthy. That's up to your imagination. I just commented that I liked to live in the best parts of a given city, no matter the continent. Many people think like that, including the author of the article Brisavoine posted. And that's it.

[Yuri]

Making some points:

--- It seems Brisavoine implied if Paris annexed neighbouring suburbs, the author wouldn't mind to live outside the roadring. I highly doubt it. Actually he might not even looking for the outer arrondissements;

--- When I went to London last year, I decided to go walking from Canary Wharf to the City, just to see the "real city". I absolutely hate it, and it was just a regular neighbourhood;

--- In Paris, I hated everything I saw from the train coming from London and from the Roissy Bus to the Charles de Gaulle. Extremely depressing landscape. Not to mention, when in Paris proper, I walked everywhere as I found the subway umbearable dirty and hated scammers coming to talk to you.

That's why I said: I would HATE to live in any city outside the best parts of it. I held on that when I changed Londrina for São Paulo, and I'd the same if I had to change São Paulo for any other city in the world. I'm extremely well where I am and I don't see the point to get used to a lower standard.

[Minato Ku]

The districts between CDG and Central Paris are old industrial areas.
Full of warehouses and the few residential areas you may see are among the poorest in Paris area.
(especially if you stay around the highway or trains tracks)
It is not at all representative of the periphery of Paris.

The area between the City and Canary Wharf, Tower Hamlet is one of the most deprived borough of London.
Same here as for Paris.

[Acajack]

Yuriandrade: élite rich people can live very well in the vast majority of the world's countries, even many of those that are poor, dangerous, corrupt, unstable and have high income inequalities.

Pointing to the lifestyle of you and you high class friends in SP doesn't really prove much about the overall situation in that city, or Paris or anywhere else.

There are lots of people doing the same in Johannesburg, Moscow, Manila, etc.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

The districts between CDG and Central Paris are old industrial areas.
Full of warehouses and the few residential areas you may see are among the poorest in Paris area.
(especially if you stay around the highway or trains tracks)
It is not at all representative of the periphery of Paris.

The area between the City and Canary Wharf, Tower Hamlet is one of the most deprived borough of London.
Same here as for Paris.

Exactly my point: most of London and Paris are not desirable areas for an average middle-classer from a mid-income country, let alone for the wealthy.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yuriandrade: élite rich people can live very well in the vast majority of the world's countries, even many of those that are poor, dangerous, corrupt, unstable and have high income inequalities.

That's precisely what I said. Were you intending to bring something new?

Originally Posted by Acajack

Pointing to the lifestyle of you and you high class friends in SP doesn't really prove much about the overall situation in that city, or Paris or anywhere else.

There are lots of people doing the same in Johannesburg, Moscow, Manila, etc.

I'm a simple mortal hardworking middle-classer. Most of my friends the same. And we are living very well down here in São Paulo with no urge to move to a bland Parisian suburb unlike Brisavoine implied. BTW, where did you read I was talking about the average living standards of both Paris and São Paulo?

P.S. Do you realise when you are mentioning Johannesburg, Moscow, Manila, São Paulo you are talking about cities whose GDP per capita might be as high as five times higher than the other and you casually threw them all in the same bag?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Exactly my point: most of London and Paris are not desirable areas for an average middle-classer from a mid-income country, let alone for the wealthy.

That's absurd. Those are two of the most desirable cities anywhere.

Just because all of Brazil doesn't move to Paris tomorrow doesn't mean Paris isn't desirable.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That's absurd. Those are two of the most desirable cities anywhere.

Just because all of Brazil doesn't move to Paris tomorrow doesn't mean Paris isn't desirable.

You clearly didn't read the post you quoted and decided to makeup your own version of what I said.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

You clearly didn't read the post you quoted and decided to makeup your own version of what I said.

Your exact quote was:

"And we are living very well down here in São Paulo with no urge to move to a bland Parisian suburb unlike Brisavoine implied."

On a comparative basis, Paulistas are not living as well as Parisians, and many would likely prefer a Parisian living standard. There are many reasons why people stay rooted in a place, but that doesn't mean those people, under the right conditions, wouldn't prefer somewhere else.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Your exact quote was:

"And we are living very well down here in São Paulo with no urge to move to a bland Parisian suburb unlike Brisavoine implied."

On a comparative basis, Paulistas are not living as well as Parisians, and many would likely prefer a Parisian living standard. There are many reasons why people stay rooted in a place, but that doesn't mean those people, under the right conditions, wouldn't prefer somewhere else.

"We" meaning me and my friends. Pay attention on the context to avoid unnecessary discussions.

You are from Polanco, right? A charming middle class district, I gather. I highly doubt people are in lines there to move to a far away, bland Parisian banlieu.

[Minato Ku]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Exactly my point: most of London and Paris are not desirable areas for an average middle-classer from a mid-income country, let alone for the wealthy.

No, I said that the areas, you visited, are not representative of the majority of the city periphery.
Most of periphery of Paris and London is more desirable for an average middle-class familly than the central part of the city.
Tiny appartments, expensive prices...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

It is not at all representative of the periphery of Paris.

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Exactly my point: most of London and Paris are not desirable areas for an average middle-classer from a mid-income country, let alone for the wealthy.

You do it on purpose. You're officially a troll.