ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[shivtim]

^Wow, that is huge news! Transit can't come to the Eastside trail soon enough.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

A site plan for North and Line:

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by daharris80

This is one of the more remarkable aspects of this development:

Does anyone view MARTA selling Trammell Crow the parking garage as a positive? The intent of MARTA's parking garages are for people to park their cars and opt for mass transit. Assuming both parking garages had a high utilization, MARTA reduced parking capacity by 50%. This sounds like another corporate hand out.....

[jwbab]

Selig plans billion-dollar project on Upper Westside

Link: https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2017/08/11/selig-plans-billion-dollar-project-on-upper.html

Selig Enterprises Inc. is planning a massive mixed-use project along Chattahoochee Avenue where the city’s gritty industrial past is making way for trendy restaurants, new housing and loft offices.

Known as “The Works at Chattahoochee,” the project will represent a billion-dollar investment over the next decade and could mark the largest development of its kind for the area since Atlantic Station.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^Wow, that is huge news! Transit can't come to the Eastside trail soon enough.

I think people will really be surprised how much use between the EST and Downtown will get once 1) the new EST extension to Edgewood is opened up and 2) when the EST transit connection opens up. All we need is a little more foot traffic and people will trust Edgewood and Downtown simply due to proximity and curiosity. Should be a boon for Downtown development.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Does anyone view MARTA selling Trammell Crow the parking garage as a positive? The intent of MARTA's parking garages are for people to park their cars and opt for mass transit. Assuming both parking garages had a high utilization, MARTA reduced parking capacity by 50%. This sounds like another corporate hand out.....

Or...another perspective:

MARTA is selling off a non-taxable asset to a taxable entity. Treating OTP stations as commuter stations is a big reason it has taken so long to develop TOD's her- all the more reason to let private developments take ownership/operation of the current parking decks for commuters and their employees - limiting the supply also encourages the office commuters to take MARTA.

We know any development is going to require some parking - even right next to MARTA's HRT lines - wouldn't the better alternative be for them to sell off an asset at the benefit of encouraging more private development right at the station - particularly when we're in an era of overdeveloping parking structures?

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Would someone please remind me, is that giant parking deck on North Ave wrapped with anything? Offices? Residences? Or just parking?

@Shivtim, I saw that too. Most telling to me is this:
"the region added 78,300 new residents." > "over 27,100 new residential units permitted in the 10-county region". Would be interesting to compare with age demographics of new residents.

Another Data Point - Construction Employment

The monthly report for the Associated General Contractors of America details monthly year-over-year change in construction jobs by metros. This data point is probably the best indicator of future growth for a city. Note Atlanta grew faster than our target peer cities Dallas and Seattle. Interestingly, Houston and Denver actually had a negative growth in construction employment.

https://www.agc.org/sites/default/fi...1706_Alpha.pdf

Here’s a look at the larger markets that added substantial construction jobs from June 2016 to June 2017:
Riverside-San Bernadino, California: 18,100
Los Angeles-Long Beach: 10,400
Tampa, Florida: 8,200
Atlanta: 6,000
New York City: 5,700
Detroit: 4,200
Minneapolis: 4,100

[alco89]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Does anyone view MARTA selling Trammell Crow the parking garage as a positive? The intent of MARTA's parking garages are for people to park their cars and opt for mass transit. Assuming both parking garages had a high utilization, MARTA reduced parking capacity by 50%. This sounds like another corporate hand out.....

I view it as a positive if it wasn't being used to a reasonable capacity. I have no clue though, since I've never used that station before. If it were Sandy Springs or North Springs, I'd be worried.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Does anyone view MARTA selling Trammell Crow the parking garage as a positive? The intent of MARTA's parking garages are for people to park their cars and opt for mass transit. Assuming both parking garages had a high utilization, MARTA reduced parking capacity by 50%. This sounds like another corporate hand out.....

I have to admit I had a similar gut reaction. However, I have to consider two things before having a firm stance on it.

1) How much did MARTA get for the parking lot?

2) What is the current utilization rate for parking at Dunwoody Station?

3) Location of Dunwoody Station.

Dunwoody Station is smack in the center of rapidly densifying Perimeter Center and I believe is the transfer connection to the long-term plan to run HRT to Cumberland along 285. Considering the Perimeter Center area is aspiring to be their own Buckhead with an "urban"-like walkable core, I do not see the need to support the transit station as a park and ride. If that's the case, fewer parking spaces for more people is a good thing. So long as MARTA received decent market value for the parking deck, parking deck utilization will not impact existing customers, and we continue to see dense development in this area, which I believe we all anticipate, I am okay with this sale.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Or...another perspective:

MARTA is selling off a non-taxable asset to a taxable entity. Treating OTP stations as commuter stations is a big reason it has taken so long to develop TOD's her- all the more reason to let private developments take ownership/operation of the current parking decks for commuters and their employees - limiting the supply also encourages the office commuters to take MARTA.

We know any development is going to require some parking - even right next to MARTA's HRT lines - wouldn't the better alternative be for them to sell off an asset at the benefit of encouraging more private development right at the station - particularly when we're in an era of overdeveloping parking structures?

If this development if like the rest, the Development Authority of Fulton County will be greatly reducing the amount they pay for the first 10 years. So I don't view this as financial decision on MARTA's behalf. Additionally if you live in the Perimeter, there is a 90% chance you don't live within walking distance of a MARTA station. Therefore, those citizens need to drive/park at the MARTA station. We have now cut their option by 50% by selling it to a developer.

State Farm is located right by the MARTA and it a arguably going to be one of the largest TODs in the city - and they built there own parking. Trammell Crow is adding a 16 story office building and a 10 story hotel and building zero parking. I can almost guarantee the price they paid for the MARTA deck is pennies on the dollar to what it would have cost them to build it themselves. They could have easily built five floors of parking under/above ground, but they would have had to pay market rates.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I have to admit I had a similar gut reaction.

This was the northern terminus for the red line between 96 and 2000. I actually remember parking in this deck during the Olympics, walking around centennial park that evening, then realizing the next morning that I missed the bombing by several hours when listening to the news. I had read somewhere that they overbuilt the decks there due to it being the northern terminus, and uncertainty whether the line would extend further. Now that it is no longer the northern terminus, the decks are underutilized. I think it is a great idea selling this asset- I'm sure other decks, like Chamblee, will follow suit as demand warrants. Even if MARTA gave the decks away for free, it reduces the maintenance burden on the agency for underutilized assets.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I have to admit I had a similar gut reaction. However, I have to consider two things before having a firm stance on it.

1) How much did MARTA get for the parking lot?

2) What is the current utilization rate for parking at Dunwoody Station?

3) Location of Dunwoody Station.

Dunwoody Station is smack in the center of rapidly densifying Perimeter Center and I believe is the transfer connection to the long-term plan to run HRT to Cumberland along 285. Considering the Perimeter Center area is aspiring to be their own Buckhead with an "urban"-like walkable core, I do not see the need to support the transit station as a park and ride. If that's the case, fewer parking spaces for more people is a good thing. So long as MARTA received decent market value for the parking deck, parking deck utilization will not impact existing customers, and we continue to see dense development in this area, which I believe we all anticipate, I am okay with this sale.

I really don't see Dunwoody and Sandy Springs density increasing much in terms of residential. Both cities actually push back on developments that are for rent vs. for purchase. Take a look at Google Maps foe this MARTA station. The only thing being built in this area is office buildings, retail and a couple mid-rise apartments. As matter of fact, why didn't Trammell Crow include a residential component as part of their "TOD" development plan. It's not like apartments are outside the scope of what they do.....

[daharris80]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Does anyone view MARTA selling Trammell Crow the parking garage as a positive? The intent of MARTA's parking garages are for people to park their cars and opt for mass transit. Assuming both parking garages had a high utilization, MARTA reduced parking capacity by 50%. This sounds like another corporate hand out.....

I think its MARTA addressing a change in circumstances. This station is no longer a commuter park and ride station. That demand is satisfied by North Springs (with approx. double the number of daily riders) and to a lesser degree Sandy Springs. Both have ample parking and are closer to arteries connecting to residential neighborhoods. With the rapid build-out of the area around the Dunwoody station and close proximity of new apartment residences and office space there will not be as much need for parking. It will be more of a station people are riding to.

If you take a look at the immediate area around this station a shortage of parking options is not a problem. I thought it was positive they are using this garage for the development because the last thing that side of the mall needs is another parking garage.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by montydawg

This was the northern terminus for the red line between 96 and 2000. I actually remember parking in this deck during the Olympics, walking around centennial park that evening, then realizing the next morning that I missed the bombing by several hours when listening to the news. I had read somewhere that they overbuilt the decks there due to it being the northern terminus, and uncertainty whether the line would extend further. Now that it is no longer the northern terminus, the decks are underutilized. I think it is a great idea selling this asset- I'm sure other decks, like Chamblee, will follow suit as demand warrants. Even if MARTA gave the decks away for free, it reduces the maintenance burden on the agency for underutilized assets.

Parking decks and parking lots have the highest ROI of any real estate asset class. Hence why you see more parking vs green space in our urban areas. Therefore, I would find it highly suspect if MARTA's maintenance cost + revenue are negative at this location.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by daharris80

I think its MARTA addressing a change in circumstances. This station is no longer a commuter park and ride station. That demand is satisfied by North Springs (with approx. double the number of daily riders) and to a lesser degree Sandy Springs. Both have ample parking and are closer to arteries connecting to residential neighborhoods. With the rapid build-out of the area around the Dunwoody station and close proximity of new apartment residences and office space there will not be as much need for parking. It will be more of a station people are riding to.

If you take a look at the immediate area around this station a shortage of parking options is not a problem. I thought it was positive they are using this garage for the development because the last thing that side of the mall needs is another parking garage.

There are tons of houses, townhouses and low rise apartments being developed or planned south of the North Spring MARTA. I cannot wrapped my head around the logic of asking citizens to drive further in TRAFFIC to North Springs because we are classing that location as a commuter station and are limiting parking options at the Dunwoody station.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

There are tons of houses, townhouses and low rise apartments being developed or planned south of the North Spring MARTA. I cannot wrapped my head around the logic of asking citizens to drive further in TRAFFIC to North Springs because we are classing that locations as a commuter station and are limiting parking options at the Dunwoody station.

Don't forget about High Street development going in right here:


IMO, MARTA took the right stance on Dunwoody station to encourage TOD. I'm not sold one way or the other on the parking garage per se, but in general this area is ripe for TOD... as much as I hate that it's miles away from anything else walkable/hardly walkable of itself yet.

edit: also this mixed use going in.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

There are tons of houses, townhouses and low rise apartments being developed or planned south of the North Spring MARTA. I cannot wrapped my head around the logic of asking citizens to drive further in TRAFFIC to North Springs because we are classing that locations as a commuter station and are limiting parking options at the Dunwoody station.

Because- heaven forbid- anyone ride a bus/circulator/shuttle to the station....

Also wouldn't the previous ROI statement be a flawed assumption since MARTA validates (aka "free" parking) if you're using the transit system (correct me if I'm wrong for this location)?

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Don't forget about High Street development going in right here:


IMO, MARTA took the right stance on Dunwoody station to encourage TOD. I'm not sold one way or the other on the parking garage per se, but in general this area is ripe for TOD... as much as I hate that it's miles away from anything else walkable/hardly walkable of itself yet.

edit: also this mixed use going in.

I had high hopes High Street was starting Q1 of this year as promised. It has been promised for 10+ years.

Dumb question: What makes a TOD? State Farm phase I is by the MARTA with 650K of office, 5K retail and zero residential. Is that considered a TOD? Trammell Crow's proposal is by the MARTA with 2 buildings (350K of office & 200 hotel rooms), no retail or residential. Is that a TOD development? Because I don't see either one contributing to making the Perimeter a walkable - carless area.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Because- heaven forbid- anyone ride a bus/circulator/shuttle to the station....

Also wouldn't the previous ROI statement be a flawed assumption since MARTA validates (aka "free" parking) if you're using the transit system (correct me if I'm wrong for this location)?

I live behind Phipps and I can't recollect ever seeing a bus. So are you suggesting the option for people living South of the Spring station go wait for a bus to drive them to the Dunwoody station, to then wait for a MARTA train to take them to work and then vice versa in the evening. Come on...this is Atlanta.

The cost is park is $5 a day and is a revenue generator for MARTA.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

If this development if like the rest, the Development Authority of Fulton County will be greatly reducing the amount they pay for the first 10 years.

This is in DeKalb, not Fulton.

Trammell Crow is adding a 16 story office building and a 10 story hotel and building zero parking.

Wrong. Go back and re-read the posts about the actual development (if you ever did). There are several levels of parking integrated into the office tower.

Leave it to you to go off half-cocked without even knowing the facts.