DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by idiot206

Can you fill me in on the plan you hope is thwarted? And what is wrong with the RTD? I'm an out of towner. I will say the only time I went to Denver, I had a bad experience taking the bus into the city from DIA but it seems that won't be an issue after 2016.

My biggest problem whenever I visit is you can hear vaudeville music and almost see sepia tones and exaggeratedly quick choppy movements whenever you have to pay for a ticket to ride anything on RTD. I shouldn't have to look like I'm going to a strip club everytime I plan to use public transit somewhere. Or more honestly, I shouldn't have to use precious precious dollar bills which who knows what that last one will get me with Ginger at the Glendale Ballet.

There is a much longer list I'm sure.. we can always have fun about what they promised Boulder, I constantly enjoy picking on the layout of Union Station(ish), headways here, wonky routes there. But if I could just go up to a machine put my CC in it and get a prepaid strip to use on the buses and choo-choos, that I can refill whenever I need to, like EVERYONE else in the country can (maybe not Pueblo... but I'm pretty sure their bus system still accepts bits of string as payment so as long as you're not naked you're good), 90% of my gripes with them would go away.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Where she'll put a spiked collar on me and tie me up out by the pool in only a speedo, where I'm only allowed to speak in a fake Italian accent. And the other Creekians will come by to rub my hair. I can't wait.

Ahem, transportation. Back to RTD-bashing!

Where in the hell have the two of you been spending your nights?

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Nah, that's Aurora thwarting one of Denver's more stupid plans (if we think that a plan that's meant to get built sooner rather than later is stupid). RTD is just along for the ride.

Remember, a large part of RTD's stupidity stems from having to satisfy every single town in the area, which makes for a transit system that's politically acceptable, but maybe not the most efficient.

I'm all for speed of getting things done.. but whatever Aurora's reasons for opposing "Denver's" plan, I also think the plan is awful. Might as well just repaint the buses and run them a bit more often. And I'm not saying that derisively.. if we're going to do as little as the plan calls for lets REALLY do it cheaply. Let me put it this way... if you gave Dan Reeves and John Fox a set of plans for improving Colfax mobility, this is exactly the plan they would have picked. It's probably ok.. it won't really lose you anything. But it's not going to win anything that counts.

[bcp]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

My biggest problem whenever I visit is you can hear vaudeville music and almost see sepia tones and exaggeratedly quick choppy movements whenever you have to pay for a ticket to ride anything on RTD. I shouldn't have to look like I'm going to a strip club everytime I plan to use public transit somewhere. Or more honestly, I shouldn't have to use precious precious dollar bills which who knows what that last one will get me with Ginger at the Glendale Ballet.

There is a much longer list I'm sure.. we can always have fun about what they promised Boulder, I constantly enjoy picking on the layout of Union Station(ish), headways here, wonky routes there. But if I could just go up to a machine put my CC in it and get a prepaid strip to use on the buses and choo-choos, that I can refill whenever I need to, like EVERYONE else in the country can (maybe not Pueblo... but I'm pretty sure their bus system still accepts bits of string as payment so as long as you're not naked you're good), 90% of my gripes with them would go away.

HA! thank you for the good laugh...and analysis is spot on...now i'm going to go play my grinder accordion.

[TakeFive]

Hardly shocking but still a bit surprised at how quickly the political winds may be changing in Colorado. Probably wouldn't take that much to change the metro area's transit friendly bias from positive to negative.

Maybe the new regime will find a way to fast track approval for Weld County to build a new whiz bang refinery for utilizing all the fracking crude from the Bakken to Colorado's Niobrara. Then we can once again start paving over the landscape.

[Cirrus]

This is how far behind RTD is: We're now talking about phasing out smartcards, because they're obsolete.

Originally Posted by WMATA

Metro awards Accenture contract for new electronic fare payment system

Metro today announced the Authority will begin testing a new electronic payment program to replace the existing fare collection systems. The new system will enable customers to continue to use SmarTrip cards, while expanding fare payment to chip-enabled credit cards, federal government ID cards, and mobile phones using near field communications (NFC).

That said, in all seriousness, this is the sort of problem that doesn't happen when your city has a white-collar transit culture. Which is to say it's the sort of problem that FasTracks should naturally solve, once all those trains are running.

[TakeFive]

I happen to read a DBJ interview/article regarding Frontier's future plans. I then picked up a link to the Washington BJ about Frontier's move into Dulles International Airport with flights to about 16 different cities.

With Dulles growing in the early 2000's the airport embarked on a $5 billion expansion. Funny think happened... after peaking with 22.1 million passengers in 2005 the airport did a U-turn and is now down to 15 million passengers a year (2013). Maybe Frontier's timing is perfect?

Next I decided to check out the Silver Line, the 1st new DC rail transit expansion in decades which will end up at Dulles when finished in 2018. It is essentially identical to the Denver East Line in length. Cost however is four times as much per mile as Fastracks. The Silver Line is expected to cost about $5.8 billion which is about what all of Fastracks will cost. The 11.7 mile 1st phase opened in July and it does look nice. WaPo did a nice article on the opening HERE.

Just sayin'.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

This is how far behind RTD is: We're now talking about phasing out smartcards, because they're obsolete.



That said, in all seriousness, this is the sort of problem that doesn't happen when your city has a white-collar transit culture. Which is to say it's the sort of problem that FasTracks should naturally solve, once all those trains are running.

Interesting. I didn't even know Accenture was in that business though with their HQ in Dublin it doesn't surprise. The EU has used chip embedded CC's for years and is using NFC as well.

Until recently domestic banks and credit card companies have deemed the losses from hackers/security issues to be modest in comparison to rolling out chip embedded cards. The other big HUGE issue is the cost to retailers with installing the necessary terminals. It is also a question of which specific technology or technologies? Would there be several or just one technology? The issues are only compounded when you start using Near Field Communication. PayPal, Apple or who will be the tech winners and losers. When you consider the very large number of small businesses in this country and the burden of their cost has a lot to do with why we've yet to go there. But it's coming now sooner than later.

With respect to RTD if their "new" system is software based then I see no impediment to adopting the new tech. Just a matter of buying new - needed terminals. Ideally, you don't want to have to roll out new terminals frequently (LOL).

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I happen to read a DBJ interview/article regarding Frontier's future plans. I then picked up a link to the Washington BJ about Frontier's move into Dulles International Airport with flights to about 16 different cities.

With Dulles growing in the early 2000's the airport embarked on a $5 billion expansion. Funny think happened... after peaking with 22.1 million passengers in 2005 the airport did a U-turn and is now down to 15 million passengers a year (2013). Maybe Frontier's timing is perfect?

Next I decided to check out the Silver Line, the 1st new DC rail transit expansion in decades which will end up at Dulles when finished in 2018. It is essentially identical to the Denver East Line in length. Cost however is four times as much per mile as Fastracks. The Silver Line is expected to cost about $5.8 billion which is about what all of Fastracks will cost. The 11.7 mile 1st phase opened in July and it does look nice. WaPo did a nice article on the opening HERE.

Just sayin'.

Part of that probably has to do with the technology selected. Building electric third rail is expensive.

[TakeFive]

^^ To be honest I didn't even know what a third rail was until I checked on Wikipedia last night. Aside from visual pollution I got the impression that there were advantages to overhead catenary systems like RTD is using. I know nothing about costs however.

On an important note, the Rockies are leading the Dodgers 14-0 in the 6th inning. Looks like a nice Wednesday afternoon crowd is enjoying the game at Coors Field. Meanwhile the Colorado Avalanche are finishing up their third day of Rookies Camp before the "real" preseason camp starts this weekend. (And that's your sports update for today)

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

^^ To be honest I didn't even know what a third rail was until I checked on Wikipedia last night. Aside from visual pollution I got the impression that there were advantages to overhead catenary systems like RTD is using. I know nothing about costs however.

Like everything in transit, it really depends. Electric third rail is great for subway/metro systems, but not so great always for commuter or other systems. Also, because at least one shoe in each car has to touch the third rail, most third rail systems are limited to a maximum speed of 80-100mph (and is also why high speed rail uses overhead wires). BART technology is 60% more expensive than DMU/EMU technology, which is why they've chosen standard gauge DMU rail for at least one of their expansion lines. BART and the Washington Metro are sister systems, and while part of what makes BART even more expensive is because it's the wide Indian gauge, but heavy electric third rail is in general more expensive than what it's worth in commuter/suburban applications.

[TakeFive]

^^ Interesting. Great feedback. Thanks.

The Silver Line does go underground for a half-mile in the 1st phase and I believe it will also go under as it approaches Dulles in the 2nd phase. I assumed it was substantially an apples to oranges comparison. Still, it gives a perspective on how much bang for the buck that RTD is getting. The sense I've gotten is that they did their homework and have executed quite well.

Carpe Diem. It will likely take a couple of decades of using the new lines but hopefully looking back Denver will feel very fortunate that it "Seized the Day" back in 2004.

[seventwenty]

Concourse C is officially bigger

Originally Posted by DBJ

Denver International Airport opened five new gates on Concourse C for Southwest Airlines on Friday and said that by November, its gates on the concourse will feature Apple’s iPad integrated into table tops.

The new gates will be used by Southwest, allowing DIA's second-largest carrier to expand its operations in Denver.

The new gates, C23 through C27, expand DIA’s Concourse C by 39,000 square feet at a cost of $46 million. The project also includes a renovation for gates C28 through C31.

[TakeFive]

^^ Speaking of DIA...

DBJ article about the annual panel of national site selectors included this curious comment:

A common theme was that the region has a gem in Denver International Airport but that leaders need to market the facility more. Joe Vranich, a principal with Spectrum Location Solutions of Orange County, California, noted that clients looking for a middle-of-the-country location often gush about the access granted by Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport without realizing what a “remarkable asset” DIA can be to them.

I guess it's not so strange that that Texas/Dallas gets its buzz and Joe Vranich also mentioned that he talks to many private family-owned businesses. That profile (especially from Orange County) is more likely to be very politically conservative which would be another reason why Texas gets love from them.

In any event I would suggest that lobbyist bunt_q start organizing a plan for the state, city and metro area to pool a half-gazillion dollars and run a BIG DIA promotion in 2016 after both the new hotel and the East Line Commuter Rail have opened.

[Mulligan]

RTD has been awarded $4,999,999 for improvements to the 15L infrastructure along East Colfax including "transit signal priority, queue jumps, and bypass lanes to improve system efficiency, as well as enhanced lighting and bus stop amenities. These funds will also set the stage for a second phase of improvements to the corridor."

http://www.fta.dot.gov/grants/15926_16153.html

[EngiNerd]

The "State of RTD" for this year has been posted.

http://www.rtd-denver.com/PDF_Files/...n2013_2014.pdf

And their email blast had some info regarding the new commuter trains.

Delivery of first commuter rail cars coming in October

RTD’s first four commuter rail cars are ready to be shipped to Denver and should arrive in October. Out of a total of 66 cars, 50 car body shells are currently being outfitted at the Hyundai-Rotem plant in Philadelphia.

The new commuter rail cars will be maintained, cleaned, stored and repaired at RTD’s new commuter rail maintenance facility at 5151 Fox St., north of I-70 and west of I-25.

When commuter rail lines open in 2016, these cars will operate on the East Rail Line to the airport; the Gold Line to Arvada and Wheat Ridge and the Northwest Rail Line to Westminster. The electrified commuter rail cars will also operate on the North Metro Line which will pass through Commerce City, Thornton and Northglenn when it opens in 2018.

In related news, the commuter rail maintenance facility has received a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy (TCO) from the City and County of Denver’s building department, and the building contractor PCL Construction, has handed the building over to Denver Transit Partners.

[Launch 12]

Here's your chance to vote on the station canopy designs of the North rail line:

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/nm_2

Definitely the coolest designs thus far in the entire system. Choose wisely.

[bunt_q]

They still look like glorified bus shelters

[CharlesCO]

They look okay though the Southeast corridor still got the better stations when it comes to design.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Launch 12

Here's your chance to vote on the station canopy designs of the North rail line:

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/nm_2

Definitely the coolest designs thus far in the entire system. Choose wisely.

I see where the North Line will be mostly single track which probably makes good sense. It also indicates how they were able to afford proceeding. Works for me.

From the pdf presentation I wonder if because "The North Metro Skyway Bridge will be the longest bridge built in Colorado" means they'll build the bridge wide enough for one track or for two tracks but only start with one track?