Miami Grows Up. A Little

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by dave8721

lol, I can't believe this article was actually posted on here. When it came up over the weekend there were some funny local articles poking fun at how hilariously uninformed it was (Dave Barry had a good one), I remember thinking half joking to myself that M II A II R II K would post it on SSP since any article that has the slightest negative tone to it with regards to Miami always gets posted in here (usually in bold/caps with a "the world is coming to an end tone") but I guess someone beat him to it.

Well, I think the question to actually ask is, "Why are there numerous articles in national publications, which cast Miami in a less-than-glowing light, written?"

One answer... when a city celebrates the flash, glitz, and glamour more than any other attributes (i.e. - It's So Miami... as a good example that sums it up quite well), well then the backlash is going to follow in kind.

When you promote a lack of substance (which btw, I think Miami has plenty of substance), then you're going to receive less than substantial response.

[jpdivola]

Just curious about how the language works down there? Do you really need to know Spanish? In NY or DC, there are tons of Spanish speakers around. But, the norm is that they always speak to non-Hispanics in English. Everyone just accept that this is an English is the de facto language.

There maybe a few immigrants here and there that don't speak English (and there is a niche market that caters to them). But, there really isn't a need to know Spanish for the general population.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by jpdivola

Just curious about how the language works down there? Do you really need to know Spanish? In NY or DC, there are tons of Spanish speakers around. But, the norm is that they always speak to non-Hispanics in English. Everyone just accept that this is an English is the de facto language.

There maybe a few immigrants here and there that don't speak English (and there is a niche market that caters to them). But, there really isn't a need to know Spanish for the general population.

It's VERY different from NYC or DC. Spanish is the predominant culture, so in turn it is the mother tongue of the city. A significant portion of the population does not speak English... it seems like mainly older Cuban exiles who always thought that Castro would be overthrown and they would return to Cuba and new immigrants.

[ukw]

Originally Posted by cityscapes

Everyone I know that has moved to South Florida for work from a normal part of America feels totally alienated and usually ends up leaving.

But it's still better than North Florida

Thanks for the informative post - good to hear personal experience.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by jpdivola

Just curious about how the language works down there? Do you really need to know Spanish?

It really depends on what you do and who you do it with. I don't speak Spanish. I've gotten along just fine. But you have to be comfortable enough with other people speaking it. You have to not get offended when you're the only one in the room who doesn't get the joke. You have to try to make it work when you can't communicate with the person next to you. If you're one of those English first people, you will not be comfortable here.

It's probably also different in the diversity of Spanish speakers here. It's not a class issue, it's not a race or ethnic issue as it might be in other places. Many people will speak Spanish to you here no matter what you look like and no matter where you are. It's just presumed you'll reply in kind. I'm as "american" looking as can be. Doesn't stop them. If you do respond in Spanish, great. If you don't, they'll ask again in English... or maybe in Spanish again. What are you going to do.

[Baronvonellis]

I'm from Ft. Myers,FL but have been to Miami many times and have never had any Spanish speakers try to speak Spanish to me. They see I'm white, and speak the best English they can to me.

I agree there is a brain drain in Florida for the younger generation. Most people I know that were smart and ambitious left for large cities out of state. There are lots of great schools in Florida, but after school people get the heck out of there. People I know there went to Chicago, New York, Atlanta, DC, or Seattle.

[jpdivola]

Originally Posted by brickell

It really depends on what you do and who you do it with. I don't speak Spanish. I've gotten along just fine. But you have to be comfortable enough with other people speaking it. You have to not get offended when you're the only one in the room who doesn't get the joke. You have to try to make it work when you can't communicate with the person next to you. If you're one of those English first people, you will not be comfortable here.

It's probably also different in the diversity of Spanish speakers here. It's not a class issue, it's not a race or ethnic issue as it might be in other places. Many people will speak Spanish to you here no matter what you look like and no matter where you are. It's just presumed you'll reply in kind. I'm as "american" looking as can be. Doesn't stop them. If you do respond in Spanish, great. If you don't, they'll ask again in English... or maybe in Spanish again. What are you going to do.

It's just more of a curiously of mine of how wide spread is it? Just a few areas in Miami proper or is it across the entire MSA. I guess here in DC, I hear people speaking Spanish every day. But, I can't think of a single time language has ever been an issue for me anywhere in DC, NYC, CHI, SF, Bos, Philly. Everyone just speaks to me in English, even people that are otherwise speaking Spanish.

All my 2nd generation (and even 1st generation) yuppie Hispanic friends just speak English all the time, except for maybe with Parents and a few random people here and there. They are not looking for Spanish dentists or pressing 2 when they pay their phone bill.

My only FL experience has been at the Miami airport. Seemed like most of the employees were Spanish speakers, but everyone addressed me in English. Just curious if that is how it would be in the rest of the city?

Could you work as say a relator or physical therapist in Miami without knowing Spanish?

It would be interesting to see if Miami is just an outlier in the US (excluding Puerto Rico) or a sign of the future for other places like SoCal, AZ, TX, rest of FL?

[brickell]

Originally Posted by jpdivola

My only FL experience has been at the Miami airport. Seemed like most of the employees were Spanish speakers, but everyone addressed me in English. Just curious if that is how it would be in the rest of the city?

Could you work as say a relator or physical therapist in Miami without knowing Spanish?

It would be interesting to see if Miami is just an outlier in the US (excluding Puerto Rico) or if SoCal, AZ, TX, rest of FL will end up like Miami?

You could work just about any professional job here without knowing Spanish. But you limit your options by not knowing it.

And it really is everywhere in Dade County at least. It's spreading in Broward and making headway in Palm Beach. That's part of what I meant about the diversity of the language speakers here. They're rich, poor, middle class. They're rural, urban, suburban. They're farmers, truck drivers, politicians, developers, doctors, bankers, lawyers, policeman, maids, teachers, etc.

Some neighborhoods are more gringo, or African-American or Haitian than others, but in terms of layers of society and spatial spread, I don't think there's anywhere in Dade county where you would be surprised to here Spanish being spoken.

[sofresh808]

Originally Posted by jpdivola

It would be interesting to see if Miami is just an outlier in the US (excluding Puerto Rico) or a sign of the future for other places like SoCal, AZ, TX, rest of FL?

I think the difference is in Miami many of the Latinos present are middle class or professional, as opposed to border states where most of the immigrants are often poor and less educated. Perhaps a place like El Paso might be similar, but the wealthy areas in San Diego and Los Angeles are overwhelmingly not Latino (but can still be diverse with Persians and Chinese immigrants). The history with Cuban exiles really makes for a unique situation.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by cityscapes
"Everyone I know that has moved to South Florida for work from a normal part of America feels totally alienated and usually ends up leaving."

It would be nice to know what you mean by a normal part of America?

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by sofresh808

I think the difference is in Miami many of the Latinos present are middle class or professional, as opposed to border states where most of the immigrants are often poor and less educated. Perhaps a place like El Paso might be similar, but the wealthy areas in San Diego and Los Angeles are overwhelmingly not Latino (but can still be diverse with Persians and Chinese immigrants). The history with Cuban exiles really makes for a unique situation.

I agree many of the hispanics in Miami are upper middle class & professionals hence the power structure (economically, politically or cultural) is dominated by them whereas that is not the case in most major US cities.
That also begs the question why is it that Miami doesn't attract major US corporations to the area unless they have a business interest in dealing with Latin America?
Do they see Miami as a place where they feel there is no talent here? Which isn't true and case in point is Jeff Bezos who grew up in Miami & graduated from high school here yet decided to leave Miami and start Amazon.com in Seattle instead.
Can you imagine if Amazon was based in Miami instead?

[cityscapes]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

Originally Posted by cityscapes
"Everyone I know that has moved to South Florida for work from a normal part of America feels totally alienated and usually ends up leaving."

It would be nice to know what you mean by a normal part of America?

I don't know maybe the parts of America where wild fowl don't roam the streets like in a developing country, just as an example.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

I agree many of the hispanics in Miami are upper middle class & professionals hence the power structure (economically, politically or cultural) is dominated by them whereas that is not the case in most major US cities.
That also begs the question why is it that Miami doesn't attract major US corporations to the area unless they have a business interest in dealing with Latin America?
Do they see Miami as a place where they feel there is no talent here? Which isn't true and case in point is Jeff Bezos who grew up in Miami & graduated from high school here yet decided to leave Miami and start Amazon.com in Seattle instead.
Can you imagine if Amazon was based in Miami instead?

I didn't know that. Heck, this is one of the many things keeping Miami from reaching its full potential.
I

[brickell]

Originally Posted by cityscapes

I don't know maybe the parts of America where wild fowl don't roam the streets like in a developing country, just as an example.

The chickens are the least of your problems.