Tucson Development Thread

[farmerk]

Originally Posted by Patrick S

I'm gonna comment on a few of your posts here Farmerk:
1) I hope they don't use eminent domain to get land for Grand Canyon University. First off, it's for a private university, not a public one so I don't know if that would be a conflict. Second, I'm not a fan of eminent domain. I think it's unfair, not very moral and easily abused. I know the 5th Amendment allows it, but I also think it can conflict with the 4th Amendment.

2) I agree with you, that I don't see Tucson ever building any freeways. Unfortunately, for the area already built that prospect has already passed, I think. I could maybe see them being proactive and building something in the southern part of the metro area, maybe connecting I-10 & I-19 in the future (that's going to be where a lot of the future growth, for the city and the metro, will be). There is talk of building another interstate from Tucson to the west-valley area of the Phoenix metro (maybe part of a future I-11 to Vegas) that would possibly stretch to I-19 and then over to I-10 east of Sahuarita and Green Valley (out towards Vail). I do disagree with you when you say that Broadway might not be widened to 6 lanes. Just because Steve K doesn't want it, too bad. The area needs it (that is a bottleneck) and it's part of the voter-approved RTA. To not build it they would have to hold another election to approve it not being built, if I'm not mistaken.

3) I filled out a submission to the ADOT rail study (and I believe I put a link on here and urged others to do the same). I told them I loved the idea of rail to Phoenix, just not the rail they are proposing. I want high-speed rail (HSR) between the 2 metro areas. If I'm not mistaken most of their routes were on rail lines already built, which is going to slow down freight (and Union Pacific has already said they plan on increasing the number of freight trains through the area) and the passenger trains. If they do this, and I hope they do, they need dedicated HSR on dedicated HSR lines.

4) While the thought of a 5 & 1/2 hour commute to Phoenix scares me, I don't know that I believe this will happen, even if we have a 10 lane interstate (and we know that probably won't happen, we still have 2 lanes for long stretches and it's taking forever to widen other stretches to 3 lanes) between Tucson and Phoenix in 2050. I think a lot of that data for population projections came before the economy crashed when they thought Pinal might become the next Riverside/San Bernardino, California (Inland Empire - IE). The growth that was starting all but stopped. Home prices crashed and there are all but no jobs in that area. Gas is rising and it's expensive to drive to Phoenix and/or Tucson to go to work. I think we will see the Sun Corridor Megalopolis some day, but I don't know that Pinal will be as built us as some thought anytime soon. Check out America2050.org for some good info on the Sun Corridor (and all the other megalopolis' around the country). Another good website to check out is transportpolitic.com. There used to be another good site, the Infrastructuralist, but it shut down a year or so ago.

Thanks for those links. Anything could happen with regards to using eminent domain but you're right, I don't see using eminent domain for GCU. I don't even know why I added those words...excitement probably? I'm with you with using a real HSR between Tucson-Phx with new tracks ...and Phx-LA-LV . It's a straight shot so it will be fast.

As for Steve K. , I think he just has the biggest mouth at city hall. Yes, the Broadway stretch is needed to avoid using downtown as an I-10 ramp...used downtown links instead. I don't know what needs to get this Broadway rd widened officially, city council vote? If that's the case, it will pass.

[farmerk]

Originally Posted by ComplotDesigner

Meanwhile at the Level. 02-24-2013
...

Thanks for posting. Those photos are a cure to my other personal addiction.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by ComplotDesigner

Meanwhile at the Level. 02-24-2013

So, within the next few months, both of those buildings should begin construction.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by farmerk

Thanks for those links. Anything could happen with regards to using eminent domain but you're right, I don't see using eminent domain for GCU. I don't even know why I added those words...excitement probably? I'm with you with using a real HSR between Tucson-Phx with new tracks ...and Phx-LA-LV . It's a straight shot so it will be fast.

As for Steve K. , I think he just has the biggest mouth at city hall. Yes, the Broadway stretch is needed to avoid using downtown as an I-10 ramp...used downtown links instead. I don't know what needs to get this Broadway rd widened officially, city council vote? If that's the case, it will pass.

I don't think they need any more action to widen Broadway. It's part of the RTA, not the city, and it will be done. The only thing that can stop it is if they brought that specific project up for a vote to the whole county (since that is who passed the RTA) and they voted to not build it. All the city could do is vote to not fund their portion of it, but that would just mean that the RTA would have to find other funding - it would still have to be built. The RTA is basically a law or contract that Pima County voted on, and passed. To change anything on it (i.e. - not build something that was proposed) would take another county-wide vote.

As for Steve, he doesn't bother me all that much. He really did when I wanted the hotel built and he was the one that spearheaded the no vote on it, but now that I look back it was probably best that the city didn't put any money into it (I still want it built, but without public funding). Even when he was a Republican I didn't mind him. I didn't, and still don't, agree with much of what he wants, says or thinks, but I actually respect him for sticking to his principles and expressing views that are not always popular (much the same way I felt about McCain before he sold his principles out the window midway thru and late in Bush's 2nd term to win the GOP nomination). I honestly think he does was he thinks is best for Tucson, and that's all we can ask of him.

[ComplotDesigner]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

So, within the next few months, both of those buildings should begin construction.

Yup, also last week I noticed that construction has begun where Walmart at el Con is supposed to be and I guess its PetSmart.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by ComplotDesigner

Meanwhile at the Level. 02-24-2013

Like the pictures. Looking good. Drove downtown today and they're putting the finishing siding (plaster or stucco, or whatever) on the Cadence building downtown. Also drove past 1 E. Broadway where they're working on the first floor. Though I would have loved this building and Cadence to be taller, what really impresses me is the fact that both of these are right up against the streets and they give it a feel of a much denser city. Reminds me, a little, of a European city (like Paris, below) where there are lots of 5-8 story buildings packed together. Of course, those aren't in their downtowns, those are just in their regular neighborhoods. I guess you gotta start somewhere, and taking two parking lots and putting buildings on them is something.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by ComplotDesigner

Yup, also last week I noticed that construction has begun where Walmart at el Con is supposed to be and I guess its PetSmart.

I think those are separate things. The PetSmart is only 14,000 sq. feet (the WalMart space is 100,000 sq. feet). The WalMart should be under construction.

[Ritarancher]

I feel the need to comment on a few things

GCU
From what I know, GCU is growing rapidly and I believe it's the largest private university in Arizona. It sounds like its more like a public university than Pima is. Somebody said that Yuma needs help with jobs and placing a university there would have little effect on the currently unemployed people. I doubt that any of them are qualified to be a professor and moved to Yuma to find a job working as a professor.
IMO some good places for that university would be the empty lot south of I-10, west of kino and east of country club. Yes it's not in the best side of town but it would definitely help the area ALOT. just like how the bridges did. Another spot could be ,like how somebody mentioned, in the Rita Ranch bio park. A last spot seems like it might be a little crazy but placing it just south of the future Cushing Street could really help downtown development (needing more student housing) and adding to the streetcars daily ridership and adding to the customers that will be passing through all the resturants and stores downtown.


5 hour commute by 2050
Prior to 08 housing developers were placing houses EVERYWHERE and a lot of times, in the middle of nowhere. There were predictions that Casa Grande was going to be the same size as Tucson by 2050. After the economic crash and spoke in gas prices I think that most estimates assume that casa grande will never reach the size. What I've noticed too is that housin developments within city limits (ex; Civano, Rancho Valencia, Sierra Morado, Sycamore Park) have been completed a lot faster than those in vail and Sahuarita. I drove by Madera highlands and was surprised at how many empty lots are still for sale. I'm doubting that people will colonize interstate 10 between Tucson and phoenix now. I'm not going to e surprised to see more mass transit systems be put in place in the cities.

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

I feel the need to comment on a few things

GCU
From what I know, GCU is growing rapidly and I believe it's the largest private university in Arizona. It sounds like its more like a public university than Pima is. Somebody said that Yuma needs help with jobs and placing a university there would have little effect on the currently unemployed people. I doubt that any of them are qualified to be a professor and moved to Yuma to find a job working as a professor.
IMO some good places for that university would be the empty lot south of I-10, west of kino and east of country club. Yes it's not in the best side of town but it would definitely help the area ALOT. just like how the bridges did. Another spot could be ,like how somebody mentioned, in the Rita Ranch bio park. A last spot seems like it might be a little crazy but placing it just south of the future Cushing Street could really help downtown development (needing more student housing) and adding to the streetcars daily ridership and adding to the customers that will be passing through all the resturants and stores downtown.


5 hour commute by 2050
Prior to 08 housing developers were placing houses EVERYWHERE and a lot of times, in the middle of nowhere. There were predictions that Casa Grande was going to be the same size as Tucson by 2050. After the economic crash and spoke in gas prices I think that most estimates assume that casa grande will never reach the size. What I've noticed too is that housin developments within city limits (ex; Civano, Rancho Valencia, Sierra Morado, Sycamore Park) have been completed a lot faster than those in vail and Sahuarita. I drove by Madera highlands and was surprised at how many empty lots are still for sale. I'm doubting that people will colonize interstate 10 between Tucson and phoenix now. I'm not going to e surprised to see more mass transit systems be put in place in the cities.

I suggested that Yuma get a public university (AZ is going to eventually have to go past their 3 public universities if the population continues to grow). Yuma's population increased from 77,515 in 2000 to 93,064 in 2010 and the metro area increased from 160,026 in 2000 to 195,751 in 2010. It's actually the fifth biggest metro in AZ behind Phoenix, Tucson, Prescott (Yavapai County) and Lake Havasu City-Kingman (Mohave County). Prescott is pretty close to Phoenix and Mohave is pretty spread out geographically and split between 2 main cities (and has only less than 5,000 more people Yuma County). I think Yuma is the next logical place for a state university, as it's the largest city outside of the 2 main metro areas - but it's not being considered for GCU.

I think Pinal County may end up getting built up, somewhat, but not like everyone once thought. I actually think something like HSR (between Phoenix and Tucson) or even commuter rail into Pinal county from Phoenix would help the growth of Pinal County than just the I-10 widening. With gas prices going higher each year people are only going to want to live out there if they can get to jobs in the 2 metro areas cheaply. That is, unless they just want to rely on only retired people for their growth and have only grocery stores, medical supply centers and hospitals (and nursing homes/rehab centers) for jobs.

[farmerk]

This is how I envision Tucson by 2050


with at least 1/3 of Tucson filled with 5-8 floor buildings outside downtown. Downtown will have taller buildings, of course. Maybe, another pocket of high rises at Kolb/I-10. In front of the buildings will be parking lots with parking meters/electric charging stations powered by solar panels. The modern street car will be the most popular mode of transportation. And Tucson will have an advance water collection system.

Since 2008, Tucson has required new commercial developments to meet at least half of their landscaping needs with harvested rainwater

As for GC Univ. locating "just south of the future Cushing Street" , that would be a first choice for me. It's not crazy at all, IMHO.

I used to live in Casa Grande and travel to Phoenix metro for work ( 2 year period ). I even know a few friends who travel to Phx from Tucson at least 3 times a week for work. So when that HSR gets implemented and Phx/Tucson would have their local rails positioned besides the HSR depot, that would pretty much help a lot of people out.

[Ted Lyons]

Not too much difference, but the Arizona Stadium webcam is back online.

[Ted Lyons]

And here's the new camera for the FieldTurf replacement.

http://www.pdc.arizona.edu/webcam/footballfield.aspx

[ProfessorMole]

Got a quick shot of The Hub area. They cleared it out pretty quickly. Most of the debris is gone over where Park Ave. will sit too.

[Ritarancher]

With both buildings being about the same size and having an expected completion date in August of next year, which do you think will be finished first? I'm putting my money on The Hub, you?
One more thing, for it's height Level seems like a very wide building or is it average,

[Patrick S]

Downtown underpass will have park on top

Becky Pallack Arizona Daily Star

A future northern gateway to downtown Tucson will include the area's first deck park.

A quarter-acre park will sit atop the 2-foot-thick concrete deck of an underpass, where traffic will flow beneath the park and the Union Pacific Railroad tracks, near the North Ninth Avenue-West Sixth Street intersection.

It's part of the $76 million Downtown Links project, which will connect Barraza-Aviation Parkway to Interstate 10.

The project is funded by the Regional Transportation Authority and managed by the city of Tucson.

The deck park will cost a minimum of $2.7 million, said Michael Bertram, associate vice president of HDR Engineering Inc., which conducted a deck park feasibility study.

That doesn't include the cost of landscaping, shade structures and other features.

A pedestrian bridge that would have cost $1.2 million also was considered, but the Tucson Department of Transportation, the Dunbar Spring Neighborhood and other downtown neighborhoods prefer the deck park plan as an attractive amenity that helps compensate the neighborhoods for traffic congestion and train noise, said city project manager Tom Fisher.

The park will include a neighborhood gathering place, a walkway and a bike path.

Other features will be chosen by a subcommittee of the Downtown Links Citizen Advisory Committee.

Sculptural shade structures, a playground, a dog run, gardens, art and a place for a coffee cart or food truck were among the features they discussed Monday.

The park also could accommodate some long-standing neighborhood activities, such as bike-in movies and community meals.

Who will maintain the space and where people from outside the neighborhood might park are problems that need to be solved by the subcommittee before the city can move forward with the park's final design.

The city's schedule calls for the design of Downtown Links Phases 3 and 4 to be complete in January 2015 and for construction to begin later that year.

Phase 1, which improved drainage in the Fourth Avenue area, is complete. Phase 2, which will improve St. Mary's Road between I-10 and Main Avenue, is under construction.

[ComplotDesigner]

COURTESY OF WHEAT SCHARF ASSOCIATES

[farmerk]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

With both buildings being about the same size and having an expected completion date in August of next year, which do you think will be finished first? I'm putting my money on The Hub, you?
One more thing, for it's height Level seems like a very wide building or is it average,

I think the height/width proportions and design of the buildings are just about right. The HUB and Park Ave. will be done the same time.

They both have first floor retail and underground parking which I like. If there will be outside parking, I hope it's a parallel metered parking space. I feel more density if a building doesn't have a large parking lot in front of the building. That's what I felt when passing by the Cadence - feels good and feels so anti-western (surprising for an iconic western town like Tucson).

Never been to Paris but my understanding is that each city block has at least a grocery store, cafe, bar, ... amenities needed for human beings. Hope that becomes a standard in Tucson.

I also like the idea of the streetcar having it's own reserved lane since Tucson will never have crosstown freeways. Hate driving in Tucson ... too many horrible drivers. I rode the light rail in Phoenix a few times and the trains we're always packed. It's so convenient in that you buy a ticket at those automated machines and just get in the train without showing your ticket to the driver (there's a sensor someplace). You can take your bike besides the seats inside the train instead of out front like the buses here in Tucson.

I like that park over 6th st/9th ave. I wished the same at 6th st/Highland.

Side note: Euclid between Broadway and Speedways badly needs a brand new road. Traffic is always heavy in that area and deserves priority.

[Anqrew]

construction starting late 2015 for the Downtown Links? thats basically 3 more years...

[southtucsonboy77]

Originally Posted by Anqrew

construction starting late 2015 for the Downtown Links? thats basically 3 more years...

The project is being done in phases..so technically Phase 1 has been completed (big drainage portion by 4th Ave), Phase 2 is the piece currently under construction from I-10 to Main, and then the underpass is like Phase 3 or 4. I'm 35...so by the time this thing reaches Broadway I'm gonna be in my 40s! Geez, I remember this project in my 20s when I worked for ADOT and then PAG...it's definitely not what it originally was suppose to be.

If the ultimate ever gets built, which is to reach I-10 near the Valencia interchange I'll probably be in my 50s or 60s.

[southtucsonboy77]

To chime in on the Grand Canyon U conversation...my fiance graduated nursing school from there 2 Aprils ago. She loved it because they did not require any religious activity or courses. If I recall...she had to write a small 1 or 2 page essay on how religion touches her life.