Why St. Louis Should Move to Illinois - Page 2

ThePhun1 · #21 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 1:25 PM**

LOL, this thread is becoming soooo useful.

You guys forgot about Memphis and West Memphis, Ark.

Seriously, even if just idle chatter, talk of moving STL to another state is just a knee jerk reaction or perhaps overreaction. St. Louis is about as Missouri as it gets.

I am curious what Missouri would look like as a state if both of its major cities and their suburbs were annexed by the adjacent states. It'd probably look be like Iowa and Arkansas' red-headed stepchild.

Centropolis · #22 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 2:46 PM**

naw. we would be exchanging one set of problems for another. if illinois had it together, it would be different. besides, i wouldn't want chicago politicos taking it out on st. louis every time we straight up tag-team strafed chicago sports teams on chicago turf. LOL .

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

LOL, this thread is becoming soooo useful.

You guys forgot about Memphis and West Memphis, Ark.

Seriously, even if just idle chatter, talk of moving STL to another state is just a knee jerk reaction or perhaps overreaction. St. Louis is about as Missouri as it gets.

I am curious what Missouri would look like as a state if both of its major cities and their suburbs were annexed by the adjacent states. It'd probably look be like Iowa and Arkansas' red-headed stepchild.

missouri doesnt really interact with iowa, and missouri and arkansas are identical in southern missouri. generally, missouri is sort of like kansas mixed with kentucky, outstate...

it's highly debatable that st. louis is representative of missouri. even suburban st. louis county (and obviously st. louis city) voted for obama and it wasn't even close.

Steely Dan · #23 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 2:50 PM**

very silly thread.

on a serious note, when was the last time in US history that state borders were moved to switch a city/region from one state to another?

Centropolis · #24 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 2:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

very silly thread.

on a serious note, when was the last time in US history that state borders were moved to switch a city/region from one state to another?

agreed.

well...off the top of my head - colorado was once part of kansas territory, so therefore denver was once in kansas.

Steely Dan · #25 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

agreed.

well...off the top of my head - colorado was once part of kansas territory, so therefore denver was once in kansas.

i'm not talking about territorial splintering and spin-offs, i'm talking about an existing border between two states being moved SPECIFACLLY to move a city or region from one state to the other.

i know state borders were shuffled around a lot back in the 19th century*, but i was wondering if there were more recent examples of such occurring from the last 50 years or so.

(*) the one i'm most familiar with was illinois' successful lobbying of the feds in 1818 to have illinois's northern border moved ~50 miles north, at wisconsin's expense, so that the state would gain lake michigan access and the small frontier settlement that would eventually become the mighty city of chicago.

Leo the Dog · #26 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:14 PM**

I love how meandering rivers create oxbow lakes. Pretty cool.

What was the point of this discussion again? Jk

Centropolis · #27 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:15 PM**

yeah, that one and this one:

wikipedia.com

mrnyc · #28 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

very silly thread.

on a serious note, when was the last time in US history that state borders were moved to switch a city/region from one state to another?

holy toledo! the ohio-michigan border war -- the settlement was that michigan got the upper peninsula off wisconsin and ohio got a few miles of land south of michigan to include toledo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War

and now the rest of you all know where that residual, but otherwise almost nonsensical osu-um college football rivalry comes from

ThePhun1 · #29 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i'm not talking about territorial splintering and spin-offs, i'm talking about an existing border between two states being moved SPECIFACLLY to move a city or region from one state to the other.

i know state borders were shuffled around a lot back in the 19th century*, but i was wondering if there were more recent examples of such occurring from the last 50 years or so.

(*) the one i'm most familiar with was illinois' successful lobbying of the feds in 1818 to have illinois's northern border moved ~50 miles north, at wisconsin's expense, so that the state would gain lake michigan access and the small frontier settlement that would eventually become the mighty city of chicago.

I believe New Orleans was left out of the Louisiana purchase originally or something in that neighborhood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

naw. we would be exchanging one set of problems for another. if illinois had it together, it would be different. besides, i wouldn't want chicago politicos taking it out on st. louis every time we straight up tag-team strafed chicago sports teams on chicago turf. LOL .

missouri doesnt really interact with iowa, and missouri and arkansas are identical in southern missouri. generally, missouri is sort of like kansas mixed with kentucky, outstate...

it's highly debatable that st. louis is representative of missouri. even suburban st. louis county (and obviously st. louis city) voted for obama and it wasn't even close.

What I'm saying is that without its iconic major cities, Missouri would likely be a cross between a more or less plain Midwestern state and a mostly rural Southern state, thus why I essentially said it'd be a cross between Iowa and Arkansas.

Centropolis · #30 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

I believe New Orleans was left out of the Louisiana purchase originally or something in that neighborhood.

What I'm saying is that without its iconic major cities, Missouri would likely be a cross between a more or less plain Midwestern state and a mostly rural Southern state, thus why I essentially said it'd be a cross between Iowa and Arkansas.

ah, yes. it's a mix between prairie/plains and inland south. the dialect maps even show a pinched area where inland northern and inland southern dialects almost touch near st. louis in the NE ozark foothills, the closest those two dialects get (usually buffered by a wide midland area).

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...shDialects.gif

jpdivola · #31 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

very silly thread.

on a serious note, when was the last time in US history that state borders were moved to switch a city/region from one state to another?

+100, that Slate article was a complete waste of time on a silly idea that will never happen.

IMO, it would have made more sense for the author to advocate for greater government decentralization. All states have these urban/rural divides. Why not allow urbanized St Louis to have tighter gun laws or a higher min wage than the rest of the state? Sure it isn't a perfect fix, but it is better than the status quo and more realistic than redrawing state lines?

Tom Servo · #32 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 4:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch City

Why St. Louis Should Move to Illinois
It doesn't belong in Missouri anymore.
By Alec MacGillis
Slate.com

Uh, no thanks.

Also, since when is St. Louis a Midwestern city? I realize some people consider Missouri a fridge Midwest state, but it is not. The cultural South, at least, begins at I-70. They even have southern accents down there. St. Louis is very much the beginning of the South.

But it's funny how much they hate their own state.

Xing · #33 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Uh, no thanks.

Also, since when is St. Louis a Midwestern city? I realize some people consider Missouri a fridge Midwest state, but it is not. The cultural South, at least, begins at I-70. They even have southern accents down there. St. Louis is very much the beginning of the South.

But it's funny how much they hate their own state.

What are you talking about? St Louis is in the Midwest. It always has been, and always will be.

Centropolis · #34 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Uh, no thanks.

Also, since when is St. Louis a Midwestern city? I realize some people consider Missouri a fridge Midwest state, but it is not. The cultural South, at least, begins at I-70. They even have southern accents down there. St. Louis is very much the beginning of the South.

But it's funny how much they hate their own state.

are you still drunk after blacking yourself out to sleep after that pan-chicago-sports-smackdown, yesterday?

please review:

mrnyc · #35 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

are you still drunk after blacking yourself out to sleep after that pan-chicago-sports-smackdown, yesterday?

please review:

its hard as it is to believe joakim noah gets even buglier looking every season, but he does

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/...n_attract.html

Tom Servo · #36 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xing

What are you talking about? St Louis is in the Midwest. It always has been, and always will be.

Missouri was a slave state that fought for the South in the Civil War and claimed by the Confederacy.

Regardless, this isn't the first time I've heard this extremely vast definition of what the Midwest is... I've heard people even include Iowa and Kentucky (and even Kansas) in the geographic definition of the Midwest. Whatever, define it as you will. But culturally, the Midwest is, and how I was taught, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio (Pittsburgh and Buffalo too). The Great Lakes region.

In any event, the idea of St. Louis in Illinois is laughable to the point of nausea. That was my only point.

Ryanrule · #37 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:34 PM**

the great lakes states should be separate from the midwest.

Centropolis · #38 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Missouri was a slave state that fought for the South in the Civil War and claimed by the Confederacy.

Regardless, this isn't the first time I've heard this extremely vast definition of what the Midwest is... I've heard people even include Iowa and Kentucky (and even Kansas) in the geographic definition of the Midwest. Whatever, define it as you will. But culturally, the Midwest is, and how I was taught, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio (Pittsburgh and Buffalo too). The Great Lakes region.

In any event, the idea of St. Louis in Illinois is laughable to the point of nausea. That was my only point.

yes...i am aware of the history of missouri. this is the ENTIRE REASON there is a divide between st. louis and the rest of the state, and the basis for this article. Missouri contributed over 100,000 men to the Union Army, the largest number from St. Louis and the immediate area. 30,000 or 40,000 or so were in the Confederate Army. The Western Arsenal was at St. Louis, along with the gunboat shipyards. The Mississippi River was controlled from here.

j korzeniowski · #39 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 5:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

the great lakes states should be separate from the midwest.

i have always thought this. there is very little in common, especially politically, between the great lakes and the dakotas, kansas and nebraska, even missouri. on the other hand, iowa could fit in with the great lakes states (trade it for indiana).

Centropolis · #40 Posted **Apr 6, 2015, 6:01 PM**

the guys that basically broke the south in half have deep connections here. general/president grant lived and was based here for many years as a local and his home and farm is a tourist attraction, and gen. william t sherman worked, lived, and is buried here and had a massive funeral procession across the city when he died in 1891.

http://www.bennettplacehistoricsite.com

st. louis post dispatch