2014 Geography of Ultra High Net Worth Individuals

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

One would think so, but this is not new.

Forbes Billionaires 2015
San Francisco City 26
Los Angeles City 25

San Francisco CSA 71
Los Angeles CSA 48

OK, but that isn't really directly relevant. This isn't a ranking of billionaires. I could see SF having more billionaires, but not millionaires.

And Fresno ahead of St. Louis and Phoenix? Does that pass the smell test? Why would Fresno be loaded with rich folks, moreso than higher income metros 5x the size?

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Crawford

OK, but that isn't really directly relevant. This isn't a ranking of billionaires. I could see SF having more billionaires, but not millionaires.

This is not just "millionaires", this is "Ultra High Net Worth Individuals" which they define as having a net worth of $30 Million+ and I honestly would of thought SF is probably even higher.

And there are other ways that SF actually has larger numbers than LA despite having far less people.

Owner Occupied Housing Units Valued at $1,000,000+, 2013
San Francisco CSA 255,000
Los Angeles CSA 220,000

And Fresno ahead of St. Louis and Phoenix? Does that pass the smell test? Why would Fresno be loaded with rich folks, moreso than higher income metros 5x the size?

Actually the report says that Fresno ranks high due to the fact that it is the agribusiness center of CA.

I didnt author the report by the way, so Im not really worried about your nasal sensitivites.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Actually the report says that Fresno ranks high due to the fact that it is the agribusiness center of CA.

I didnt author the report by the way, so Im not really worried about your nasal sensitivites.

You posted the report, so sorry, you will have deal with others "nasal sensitivities".

And, no, I'm not going to agree that Fresno has more wealth than cities 5-6 times bigger. I'm not going to believe that Detroit has more wealth than Miami or twice the wealth of Philly. I'm not going to believe that Milwaukee has more wealth than Philly, or almost as much as Boston. Makes no sense, at all.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You posted the report, so sorry, you will have deal with others "nasal sensitivities".

Haha no not at all. I actually have zero responsibility to make it palatable to you.

And, no, I'm not going to agree that Fresno has more wealth than cities 5-6 times bigger. I'm not going to believe that Detroit has more wealth than Miami or twice the wealth of Philly. I'm not going to believe that Milwaukee has more wealth than Philly, or almost as much as Boston. Makes no sense, at all.

You are free to email your disdain to the link

But clearly I see that this might be yet another example of how perception and reality might not be aligned.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Haha no not at all. I actually have zero responsibility to make it palatable to you.

No, actually you have 100% responsibility. You posted the link. If you think it's garbage, then why did you post it?

Originally Posted by dimondpark

But clearly I see that this might be yet another example of how perception and reality might not be aligned.

True, this is possible, but extremely unlikely. I don't find it likely that Fresno is some under-the-radar Zurich or Silicon Valley, full of massive and secretive wealth, and that the Census somehow horribly screwed up its income data. I find it more likely that the list is simply wrong.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, actually you have 100% responsibility. You posted the link. If you think it's garbage, then why did you post it?

I didnt say I think it's garbage, and Im not responsible for your reaction. What a laugh.

True, this is possible, but extremely unlikely. I don't find it likely that Fresno is some under-the-radar Zurich or Silicon Valley, full of massive and secretive wealth, and that the Census somehow horribly screwed up its income data. I find it more likely that the list is simply wrong.

Zurich and Silicon Valley( the 2 places I split my time in coincidentally) are hardly "under the radar" as far as wealth. What a strange assertion?

[Gordo]

The Fresno one is baffling. SF vs LA seems plausible, though since some of the others don't really pass the sniff test...

[599GTO]

Originally Posted by Gordo

The Fresno one is baffling. SF vs LA seems plausible, though since some of the others don't really pass the sniff test...

Don't believe it.

And how is this metropolitan area when Miami and Palm Beach are separate?

[Chef]

Originally Posted by Gordo

The Fresno one is baffling. SF vs LA seems plausible, though since some of the others don't really pass the sniff test...

It almost certainly has to do with the fact that privately held farms in the Central Valley are on an industrial scale compared to agriculture in the rest of the US.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Chef

It almost certainly has to do with the fact that privately held farms in the Central Valley are on an industrial scale compared to agriculture in the rest of the US.

Sure, but 480 people in Fresno worth 30 million + because of this? There aren't that many industrial privately-owned farms in the Central Valley, let alone right around Fresno.

[599GTO]

Originally Posted by Gordo

Sure, but 480 people in Fresno worth 30 million + because of this? There aren't that many industrial privately-owned farms in the Central Valley, let alone right around Fresno.

Or it's just flat out inaccurate. According to the California Department of Finance, there were only 469 households in the Fresno County who had gross incomes over $1mm last year, which is amongst the lowest rates in California. In comparison, San Diego has about 3,500, yet according to the source in question, Frenso magically has only 50% fewer UHNWI than San Diego. Fresno also seems to be the only place in the world with more $30MM+ net worth households than there are those who make $1MM+.

As someone who has lived in California for 1/3rd of my life and has had the misfortune of going into Fresno multiple times...the dump doesn't even have 100 UHNWI, let alone 480.

I looked at their website and unlike the other wealth surveys, there is no methodology given. They just simply tell the readers to rely on their magical "wealth intelligence".

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Gordo

Sure, but 480 people in Fresno worth 30 million + because of this? There aren't that many industrial privately-owned farms in the Central Valley, let alone right around Fresno.

Actually, according to bea.gov, Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for about $16 billion of the total national "farms" gdp of $72 billion.

And Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for $20 billion of the total national agriculture gdp of $94 billion.

So that totals an annual output of $36 billion, by far the largest ag gdp in the nation, of which Fresno appears to be the nexus. It stands to reason that the relatively few who control all of that are very wealthy.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Actually, according to bea.gov, Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for about $16 billion of the total national "farms" gdp of $72 billion.

And Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for $20 billion of the total national agriculture gdp of $94 billion.

So that totals an annual output of $36 billion, by far the largest ag gdp in the nation, of which Fresno appears to be the nexus. It stands to reason that the relatively few who control all of that are very wealthy.

Yes, I get that. I would just assume that it would be more more concentrated. 680 individuals implies that the wealth is spread around quite a bit.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Actually, according to bea.gov, Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for about $16 billion of the total national "farms" gdp of $72 billion.

And Fresno and surrounding Metro Areas account for $20 billion of the total national agriculture gdp of $94 billion.

So that totals an annual output of $36 billion, by far the largest ag gdp in the nation, of which Fresno appears to be the nexus. It stands to reason that the relatively few who control all of that are very wealthy.

There is also probably a lot of wealth tied up in the value of the farm land.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

Or it's just flat out inaccurate. According to the California Department of Finance, there were only 469 households in the Fresno County who had gross incomes over $1mm last year, which is amongst the lowest rates in California. In comparison, San Diego has about 3,500, yet according to the source in question, Frenso magically has only 50% fewer UHNWI than San Diego. Fresno also seems to be the only place in the world with more $30MM+ net worth households than there are those who make $1MM+.

Right. Thanks for the CDF data. That number for Fresno is just not credible...

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Gordo

Yes, I get that. I would just assume that it would be more more concentrated. 680 individuals implies that the wealth is spread around quite a bit.

I would be inclined to agree. This stat is interesting tho:

Schuiteman's farm is one of
over 50,000 nationwide that
have gross sales of over a
million dollars a year, according
to the United States Department
of Agriculture...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/27/news/economy/farming/

So if Fresno accounts for a fifth of that, we're talking 10,000 farms that gross $1M+, they probably have substantial land which itself is valuable.

After considering that, Im not so sure it's difficult to justify 480, but I digress.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Chef

There is also probably a lot of wealth tied up in the value of the farm land.

I would definitely say so.

[Chef]

How much are water rights worth? That may also be part of it.