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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 8:02 PM
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Can you size down the pictures so that they're viewable entirely without having to scroll both down and back and forth?
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 9:43 PM
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Can you size down the pictures so that they're viewable entirely without having to scroll both down and back and forth?
Apologies - my first attempt to post photos like that - I'll try and get that fixed.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2012, 7:18 PM
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Can you size down the pictures so that they're viewable entirely without having to scroll both down and back and forth?
You can also zoom out on your own browser. That's what I ended up doing to view those photos a bit easier.
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 5:03 AM
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http://www.statesman.com/news/busine...ould-ta/nTbR8/
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Posted: 5:28 p.m. Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2012
More apartments planned at Mueller
Project would target residents with incomes below median

By Shonda Novak
American-Statesman Staff

Another apartment project is in the works for the Mueller community in Northeast Austin — and developers say they complex would have rents within reach of working-class residents.

Catellus Development has chosen DMA Development Co. for the project, which is slated for 3 acres near Berkman Drive and Barbara Jordan Boulevard within the Mueller development.

The new apartment community would have at least 85 percent of its estimated 175 units reserved for families making 30 percent to 60 percent of the area’s median household income. Most one-bedroom units would have rents in the $575 to $740 a month range, while two-bedroom units would rent for $650 to $950 a month. About 17 units will be priced at about $360 a month.
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 7:45 AM
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Wow, the Mueller keeps on getting better and better! There is still a lot of empty land around there, can't wait to see it all built up.
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2012, 8:36 PM
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Went out to check out Mueller this morning. They've made a lot of progress. Things are progressing fast there. Didn't take too many pictures, but here's the HEB and another building in the shopping center:



The HEB.



It seems to have a unique (plane-themed?) feature on its front side.



The roads go all the way out to Philomena now.



More than anything, the progress they've made on the roads is what struck me. Berkman is very close to being complete. Still not much going on east of Berkman, though.
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2012, 1:18 AM
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
Went out to check out Mueller this morning. They've made a lot of progress. Things are progressing fast there. Didn't take too many pictures, but here's the HEB and another building in the shopping center:



The HEB.



It seems to have a unique (plane-themed?) feature on its front side.



The roads go all the way out to Philomena now.



More than anything, the progress they've made on the roads is what struck me. Berkman is very close to being complete. Still not much going on east of Berkman, though.
Nothing is going on east of Berkman except the HEB/Market District. That will probably change dramatically by end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.

Swung by the HEB again and (setting aside the fact this is a suburban and not urban market) starting to really grove on the design for the facade which is evocative of a wing. I'll get some snaps this weekend and post.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2013, 10:26 AM
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I noticed that right next to (east of) Berkman there's a HUGE ditch/ravine/embankment sort of thing. And then behind that that have this HUGE mound of dirt. The intention is to build houses where that embankment is, so they're going to have to fill it completely with all that dirt. That's going to take a while and it's going to be tedious work.

Overall, there seems to be a lot of earth-moving going on at Mueller. The area isn't normally flat/level in many places. There's another huge mound of dirt north of Philomena. I think maybe I'll take a trip out there today to take a look at their progress again.
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Old Posted Jan 10, 2013, 3:39 PM
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Overall, there seems to be a lot of earth-moving going on at Mueller. The area isn't normally flat/level in many places. There's another huge mound of dirt north of Philomena. I think maybe I'll take a trip out there today to take a look at their progress again.
Back in 2010/2011 I used to take my jeep out there from behind the movie studios and go ramble around the old runways, and up those giant mounds of gravel. Was fun, and I was shocked to see on google maps that the project has already extended that far!
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2013, 6:53 PM
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Few pics of the HEB - which does have a very cool aviation themed wing of sorts going in. It'll be suburban, but in a very nice way.

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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2013, 8:20 PM
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Wow. Interesting. From afar, I didn't think those beams were made out of wood. I figured they were metal. I wonder if they're going to cover it all with something or if they're just going to leave the wood all exposed like that. I'm suspecting the latter, with the metal bases surrounded with a layer of concrete. The wood looks high quality, with a nice finish. I wouldn't really like it if it's left with all those nuts and bolts showing, if they're not painted over. But I guess some people like a stripped-down, rugged look. Whatever. I'm not going to judge, until I see the finished product. I mean, it's just a suburban H-E-B, so maybe I shouldn't be too concerned with it. But it is going to be the central hub of that entire area (not just Mueller). Anyway, it's exciting. I'm looking forward to Berkman being connected all the way through. But I have a feeling they're not going to do that until they're just about done with the shopping center.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
Wow. Interesting. From afar, I didn't think those beams were made out of wood. I figured they were metal. I wonder if they're going to cover it all with something or if they're just going to leave the wood all exposed like that. I'm suspecting the latter, with the metal bases surrounded with a layer of concrete. The wood looks high quality, with a nice finish. I wouldn't really like it if it's left with all those nuts and bolts showing, if they're not painted over. But I guess some people like a stripped-down, rugged look. Whatever. I'm not going to judge, until I see the finished product. I mean, it's just a suburban H-E-B, so maybe I shouldn't be too concerned with it. But it is going to be the central hub of that entire area (not just Mueller). Anyway, it's exciting. I'm looking forward to Berkman being connected all the way through. But I have a feeling they're not going to do that until they're just about done with the shopping center.
I was surprised by the wood as well - not sure if its structural or not - but it does look nice. And yes, it will indeed be every bit the amenity for Windsor Park as it is for Mueller.

As for Berkman - I saw a bunch of yellow steel there that looked suspiciously like road building equipment.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2013, 6:06 PM
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Mueller continues to be a huge disappointment to me and a huge waste of tax dollars (and a waste of a singular opportunity). We go over there about once a month just to hit the park (which is cool - has playscapes unlike the typical stuff everywhere else), and I drive through every time I go to Home Depot.

The market is irredeemably suburban - and will never be retrofitted. Nor will the existing retail sprawl - those who are telling you otherwise are taking a Dumb And Dumber approach to development ("OK, there's a one in a million chance the parking lot could be infilled into some kind of a grid" - "so you're telling me there's a chance!").



We had a big windfall at the end of 2011 - enough that I even briefly entertained looking at one of the signature houses over there and paid attention for a few months again to what's going on with the Town Center and everything else. No changes, folks, it's still just a big dumb new suburb. (We moved to Hyde Park instead - I have yet to tell Karen McGraw the news).
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2013, 9:31 PM
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Mueller continues to be a huge disappointment to me and a huge waste of tax dollars (and a waste of a singular opportunity). We go over there about once a month just to hit the park (which is cool - has playscapes unlike the typical stuff everywhere else), and I drive through every time I go to Home Depot.

The market is irredeemably suburban - and will never be retrofitted. Nor will the existing retail sprawl - those who are telling you otherwise are taking a Dumb And Dumber approach to development ("OK, there's a one in a million chance the parking lot could be infilled into some kind of a grid" - "so you're telling me there's a chance!").



We had a big windfall at the end of 2011 - enough that I even briefly entertained looking at one of the signature houses over there and paid attention for a few months again to what's going on with the Town Center and everything else. No changes, folks, it's still just a big dumb new suburb. (We moved to Hyde Park instead - I have yet to tell Karen McGraw the news).
Hey Mike - congrats on Hyde Park - it's one of a handful of neighborhoods I really like in Austin. I'm sure Karen McGraw will have kittens once you get on the neighborhood list serves.

I agree with some of your criticisms on Mueller. The north west quadrant along IH35 is suburban in form (and yes, driving to that home depot is like driving to any other home depot, except the trip is much shorter now) and I don't ever expect that to be retrofitted (or don't discount that it might happen 20 years from now - but no where in the near future). But honestly - I've never heard anyone discuss retrofitting that - and in any case it would be so far down the line there's no point in discussing it - your point seems like a red herring to me.

The market district by the HEB may be a bit hybrid (some nods to urbanism along Berkman) - though basically suburban in form (cool suburban, but suburban) - which, I understand, was dictated by HEB's demands. I think this summer we'll have a much better idea of what that area will ultimately be. Of course, if we had Publix here in Texas, they could have figured out a more urban grocery store. Unfortunately, they don't service Texas. Yet still, the HEB will be a tremendous amenity for the neighborhood and Windsor Park and close enough to a LOT of housing to walk to in the 5-10 minute range - quite pleasantly, on tree shaded streets lined with both separated bike lanes and on-street parking and without having to cross large parking lots at all. It should also be noted the the presence of HEB does not preclude a Blue Royal type store to open in town center or down by the Tower some day, and Mosaic is already getting a boutique like convenience store as well (open this spring) and theres a really pleasant farmers market at the hangar as well, so there will be options for committed urbanites.

But the main problem I have with your criticism is that you don't seem to acknowledge Mueller is a work in progress (or rather - you seem to be dubious of any possible progress). The housing stock is actually dense and urban in form (oriented towards the street, small lots, garages in back by code, etc.) compared to most of Austin (you can't legally build that kind of density right now anywhere else in Austin except the CBD and a few transit corridors), with a mix of housing types and levels of affordability actually welcomed and desired by the residents and getting denser all the time (see section 6 and several new planned and being built apartment buildings - such as Mosaic 2, and the AMLI). And the town center plans are quite urban in form and should bring a nice mix of restaurants, pubs, retail, theater, office, etc. to the area. Yes, it doesn't exist yet - but it's getting closer and the city seems committed to it and catellus seems committed to it happening and the neighborhhod is not only accepting of urbanism but, unlike places like Allendale or Zilker, actually desires it to happen as soon as possible. If Little Woodrows wanted to open in Mueller, the residents would hold a welcoming party, not stick the owner with a pitchfork. The reality of the financial markets and slow down in the economy have no doubt set things back - but it's a bit unfair to criticize catellus for macro economic trends it has no control over or, over stuff that hasn't been built yet. And perhaps it's fair to say they should have built the town center first. . .but I'm not so sure this is right - I mean, NO ONE wants that to be a life-style center a-la the Domain, but rather something a bit more organic and real, and for that to occur there needs to be people first. . .so a bit chicken and the egg scenario going on I think.

The neighborhood itself is quite pleasant. The park - as you mentioned is really nice and maintained for the COA at a much higher standard than most other city parks (thank you to the POA) and once the ACM goes in there will be a ton of people coming to the area which should get the ball rolling on the town center.

I'm unclear on whether you have a problem with the current town center planns (in which case what are they)? Or is your critique that the plans won't materialize?

If the latter - time will tell. Perhaps let it evolve over say the next 5 years and see what it becomes before passing judgment on it being "just a big dumb suburb".

I'm also unclear how it is a "waste of tax dollars" since it brings a tremendous amount of ad valorem taxes to the city's budget. Also, doesn't Catellus purchase the land from the city as it gets developed out? I'm trying to find where this is a bad deal for Austin taxpayers.

Anyway, I think your heart is in the right place (even if its 3 sizes to small) and would definitely buy you a drink at Karen McGraw's favorite wine bar (or Contigo if you like better) and debate whether, of all the really stupid crap the city of Austin does, Mueller really deserves such ire.

Last edited by Komeht; Jan 27, 2013 at 6:44 PM.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2013, 7:30 PM
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I appreciate the friendly words. Please remember when reading this that this is not something I've just come to with no knowledge - I'm intimately familiar with Mueller from the getgo, and have formed these opinions not out of ignorance, but out of an excess of experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Hey Mike - congrats on Hyde Park - it's one of a handful of neighborhoods I really like in Austin. I'm sure Karen McGraw will have kittens once you get on the neighborhood list serves.

I agree with some of your criticisms on Mueller. The north west quadrant along IH35 is suburban in form (and yes, driving to that home depot is like driving to any other home depot, except the trip is much shorter now) and I don't ever expect that to be retrofitted (or don't discount that it might happen 20 years from now - but no where in the near future). But honestly - I've never heard anyone discuss retrofitting that - and in any case it would be so far down the line there's no point in discussing it - your point seems like a red herring to me.
Actually, Mueller apologists claim the suburban retail will be retrofitted within a decade or two. Not can be; not might be; not conceivably could be; but will be.

Quote:
The market district by the HEB may be a bit hybrid (some nods to urbanism along Berkman) - though basically suburban in form (cool suburban, but suburban) - which, I understand, was dictated by HEB's demands. I think this summer we'll have a much better idea of what that area will ultimately be. Of course, if we had Publix here in Texas, they could have figured out a more urban grocery store. Unfortunately, they don't service Texas. Yet still, the HEB will be a tremendous amenity for the neighborhood and Windsor Park and close enough to a LOT of housing to walk to in the 5-10 minute range - quite pleasantly, on tree shaded streets lined with both separated bike lanes and on-street parking and without having to cross large parking lots at all. It should also be noted the the presence of HEB does not preclude a Blue Royal type store to open in town center or down by the Tower some day, and Mosaic is already getting a boutique like convenience store as well (open this spring) and theres a really pleasant farmers market at the hangar as well, so there will be options for committed urbanites.
First, this makes it sound like urban grocery (or even a true hybrid) is a hard problem to solve. It's not - like most problems with Mueller, it's a lack of observation of successful neighborhoods nearby - like Hyde Park.

Look at Fresh Plus on 43rd. It's got a parking lot on one side, and it's got street frontage (pedestrian friendly front entrance). You don't have to go more than ten minutes from Mueller to have an example of what Mueller's planners should have demanded (and if HEB wouldn't give it to them, then wait; there's nothing Mueller gets from having a drive-only HEB slightly closer that's worth forever losing this opportunity).

t's absolutely not true that it's a quick walk down tree-lined streets there. You will, in fact, have to cross part of a parking lot to get there (in the best case scenario - coming from the side on Berkman), and you will, in fact, be the afterthought - not the primary or even equal thought, but the "oh. I guess maybe somebody might walk once in a while too, so maybe we'll paint a crosswalk or two". I doubt very much whether crossing the traffic lane to/from the loading dock is what most people have in mind as 'urban'.

Urban would be cars park over here, then they walk around the building to the main entrance the pedestrians are already at (or, like at Fresh Plus, again, right there for the looking-at, drivers have their own side-entrance but it's clearly the lesser of the two).

Two links from my fellow traveller the Austin Contrarian:

http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...an-design.html
http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...ealistic-.html

And no, the HEB is not incrementally better. It's going to stay suburban forever, and no, it's not true that it doesn't impact a Royal Blue solution in the Town Center (which is a suboptimal grocer anyways - people around here can and do use Fresh Plus for 100% of their daily needs; Royal Blue isn't there unless you are making a conscious point to eschew your car and put up with a small selection). I

If the HEB means the Town Center can't have something the scale of a Fresh Plus and instead gets a Royal Blue (and I doubt it will even get that), then the HEB screwed Mueller up for good.

Quote:
But the main problem I have with your criticism is that you don't seem to acknowledge Mueller is a work in progress (or rather - you seem to be dubious of any possible progress). The housing stock is actually dense and urban in form (oriented towards the street, small lots, garages in back by code, etc.) compared to most of Austin (you can't legally build that kind of density right now anywhere else in Austin except the CBD and a few transit corridors), with a mix of housing types and levels of affordability actually welcomed and desired by the residents and getting denser all the time (see section 6 and several new planned and being built apartment buildings - such as Mosaic 2, and the AMLI). And the town center plans are quite urban in form and should bring a nice mix of restaurants, pubs, retail, theater, office, etc. to the area. Yes, it doesn't exist yet - but it's getting closer and the city seems committed to it and catellus seems committed to it happening and the neighborhhod is not only accepting of urbanism but, unlike places like Allendale or Zilker, actually desires it to happen as soon as possible. If Little Woodrows wanted to open in Mueller, the residents would hold a welcoming party, not stick the owner with a pitchfork. The reality of the financial markets and slow down in the economy have no doubt set things back - but it's a bit unfair to criticize catellus for macro economic trends it has no control over or, over stuff that hasn't been built yet. And perhaps it's fair to say they should have built the town center first. . .but I'm not so sure this is right - I mean, NO ONE wants that to be a life-style center a-la the Domain, but rather something a bit more organic and real, and for that to occur there needs to be people first. . .so a bit chicken and the egg scenario going on I think.
If Mueller was a serious NU development, the following things would have happened:

1. Apartments would be mixed in with the houses, instead of being horizontally separated.

2. The Town Center (plus apartments) would have been first, rather than last.

Again, a nearby example exists! The freakin' Triangle! Built in far less time, with a real Town Center in it (even if it's got too many chains and was way too restaurant-heavy, it's been delivering the Town Center Mueller was promised for almost ten years now!)

Mueller's Town Center plans have shifted over the years to be far less ambitious than originally promised, and delayed by what will likely turn out to be a decade (if it ever actually happens). I sat on the UTC from 2000-2005 and was being briefed (and contributing slightly to) plans from 2000 on.

What Mueller ended up being is a medium-density suburb. People have to drive on nearly every errand (it is relatively bike-friendly, but so are many suburbs). This is unlikely to (ever) change, but it was easily avoidable.

As for the "just wait five years", that's what people were told five years ago!

Finally, if you're interested, here's a thread from about 18 months ago on the same subject:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193564
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Last edited by M1EK; Jan 27, 2013 at 7:48 PM.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2013, 9:21 PM
Komeht Komeht is offline
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I appreciate the friendly words. Please remember when reading this that this is not something I've just come to with no knowledge - I'm intimately familiar with Mueller from the getgo, and have formed these opinions not out of ignorance, but out of an excess of experience.



Actually, Mueller apologists claim the suburban retail will be retrofitted within a decade or two. Not can be; not might be; not conceivably could be; but will be.



First, this makes it sound like urban grocery (or even a true hybrid) is a hard problem to solve. It's not - like most problems with Mueller, it's a lack of observation of successful neighborhoods nearby - like Hyde Park.

Look at Fresh Plus on 43rd. It's got a parking lot on one side, and it's got street frontage (pedestrian friendly front entrance). You don't have to go more than ten minutes from Mueller to have an example of what Mueller's planners should have demanded (and if HEB wouldn't give it to them, then wait; there's nothing Mueller gets from having a drive-only HEB slightly closer that's worth forever losing this opportunity).

t's absolutely not true that it's a quick walk down tree-lined streets there. You will, in fact, have to cross part of a parking lot to get there (in the best case scenario - coming from the side on Berkman), and you will, in fact, be the afterthought - not the primary or even equal thought, but the "oh. I guess maybe somebody might walk once in a while too, so maybe we'll paint a crosswalk or two". I doubt very much whether crossing the traffic lane to/from the loading dock is what most people have in mind as 'urban'.

Urban would be cars park over here, then they walk around the building to the main entrance the pedestrians are already at (or, like at Fresh Plus, again, right there for the looking-at, drivers have their own side-entrance but it's clearly the lesser of the two).

Two links from my fellow traveller the Austin Contrarian:

http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...an-design.html
http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...ealistic-.html

And no, the HEB is not incrementally better. It's going to stay suburban forever, and no, it's not true that it doesn't impact a Royal Blue solution in the Town Center (which is a suboptimal grocer anyways - people around here can and do use Fresh Plus for 100% of their daily needs; Royal Blue isn't there unless you are making a conscious point to eschew your car and put up with a small selection). I

If the HEB means the Town Center can't have something the scale of a Fresh Plus and instead gets a Royal Blue (and I doubt it will even get that), then the HEB screwed Mueller up for good.



If Mueller was a serious NU development, the following things would have happened:

1. Apartments would be mixed in with the houses, instead of being horizontally separated.

2. The Town Center (plus apartments) would have been first, rather than last.

Again, a nearby example exists! The freakin' Triangle! Built in far less time, with a real Town Center in it (even if it's got too many chains and was way too restaurant-heavy, it's been delivering the Town Center Mueller was promised for almost ten years now!)

Mueller's Town Center plans have shifted over the years to be far less ambitious than originally promised, and delayed by what will likely turn out to be a decade (if it ever actually happens). I sat on the UTC from 2000-2005 and was being briefed (and contributing slightly to) plans from 2000 on.

What Mueller ended up being is a medium-density suburb. People have to drive on nearly every errand (it is relatively bike-friendly, but so are many suburbs). This is unlikely to (ever) change, but it was easily avoidable.

As for the "just wait five years", that's what people were told five years ago!

Finally, if you're interested, here's a thread from about 18 months ago on the same subject:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193564
Hey Mike,

For the record I think you were right on the money about the Red Line and the fact that you were saying this before anyone else means your ideas carry a lot of weight with me. One of the things I like about you is you put thought into your views on the city and I also appreciate your sharing an insiders POV. I think we share a pretty similar perspective on most things and I'm pretty sure we'd agree about city issues on a LOT more than we would disagree. The following are points we agree on wrt Mueller:

1. Whether a retrofit of the nw retail quadrant will happen in the future is too remote a possibility and too remote in time to be worth considering. If there are apologist for it use that as an excuse, then I agree with you. I haven't seen any public statement of that kind, but then I'm not privy to the access and discussions you've had.

2. Mueller is medium density with too much segregation in housing. e.g., one thing that Mueller has done well are the Mueller Houses. Why they didn't mix those through the neighborhood instead of stacking them all on Simond is a bit perplexing to me - they would have fit well into the neighborhood and provided a nice mix of housing within blocks instead of within the development as a whole and a great example for the rest of Austin as to how mixing housing types in neighborhoods can add density and not be scary. Boat missed on that one.

3. The HEB is essentially suburban in form, set behind a giant parking lot, and not oriented to the street as you and I would have preferred. The nods towards urbanism, while nice, are not sufficient. I also agree that the presence of HEB absolutely precludes something on the scale of Fresh Plus (as a Fresh Plus would absolutely preclude the presence of an HEB). I think a RB is not precluded (either contracturally or effectively) because it does serve a different function and market. Is there room for both? Not sure. Maybe not for a few years.

4. Yes today people have to drive to nearly every errand. I think they're short drives for the most part and also that's likely to change some by this summer. In 5 years it may well be the case that many or most errands for residents will be accomplished on foot or bike. I noticed there were petit cabs hanging around the farmers market last few weekends taking people and groceries from the hangar to homes, in Mueller and other nearby neighborhoods.

The above being said - I do think you are harder on Mueller than it deserves.

1. Starting from just about any point w/n Mueller and walking to the HEB you would ultimately end up on Berkman headed north. The design of Berkman itself is actually quite good and conducive to pleasant walk (building, small yard, sidewalk, tree, bike lane, raised concrete barrier, on-street parking, traffic - that will be a very pleasant and well designed blvd once complete). Then you will have to walk one block with retail on one or two sides and cross a very short amount of pavement (maybe 15 seconds) to get to the front. I agree this is not ideal and yes it's from the side and not the front - but it's not horrible either. And the side entrance from Berkman looks like it has potential to be pretty welcoming with that wing structure out front. If your walk to the grocery store is 5-10 minutes, the last 15 seconds are bad - that's not a deal killer. The worst part is that it is mostly oriented to the parking lot and the parking is all surface, again we agree. It also would have been great if they had put an apartment building above it making it vmu - not sure if that was ever considered - boat missed.

I will say that the pedestrian approach from Windsor Park is much more problematic than that for for residence of Mueller, and much less friendly.
2. I agree the problem of orienting the HEB to the street is not a terribly tough one to solve. Personally I would prefer structured parking like Whole Foods at 6th to the surface parking on the side or back that you mention at Fresh Plus. But unfortunately you need a willing participant to do that. HEB wasn't willing to do so - they haven't developed a business model based on an urban form yet and aren't willing to take that risk. BTW, this isn't the first time they've refused to go urban. In Houston's Montrose neighborhood the neighbors begged and pleaded and city tried and tried to get HEB to do the same and they balked there as well with similar results. I agree it can be done, I agree that Mueller would have been a good place to start - but I can't fault Catellus for ultimately deciding to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Perhaps they should have courted Trader Joes more.

3. Whether the town center gets built first or dead last doesn't matter in the long view. What matters is it gets built and is designed well so that it is a commercial and long term sustainable success and good urban design. I suspect it will ultimately not be first or last but something in between - and that's ok - as long as it's good. That's what I think the residents are holding their breath on and what remains to be seen. I have seen the plans and presentation and what I have seen looks promising.

4. 5 years ago the world was on the cusp of a financial melt down which stopped many projects cold and killed many others. Mueller's continued development (albeit at a slower pace than most people would like) is a testament to careful planning. It's hard to fault Catellus for tapping the breaks in the wake of financial institutions folding world wide, unavailable credit, and the widespread death of large commercial real estate ventures all over the US. If 5 years goes by from now and town center is still largely orange and red blocks on a piece of paper with no significant progress, then I will gladly (but with sadness, because I do hope the town center does happen) buy you a margarita at Julios and say "Mike, yet again, you were right - we should have listened."

5. It was my impression that the town center plans are actually more ambitious, with higher levels of density, taller buildings, more opportunities for retail, etc. than there were previously. Is that not the case?

6. I don't think it's fair to call Mueller a suburb since, it's centrally located (2 miles from UT, 3 miles from the CBD), and well within city limits and basically urban in form. That is is medium density is without question - is a step up from the low density that is currently allowed w/n 80 or 90% of Austin and a vast improvement over concrete runways.

7. Finally, Mueller isn't the only force in the area. Revitalization is creeping down Manor lot by lot. Its easy to see that in 10 years all of Manor between Airport and IH35 could be quite a strip of VMU. Can that jump across Airport and link right up to Mueller? Idk, but Contigo makes a good case that it can and will eventually.

Last edited by Komeht; Jan 28, 2013 at 6:17 PM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2013, 4:01 PM
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M1EK M1EK is offline
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Thanks again for the kind words. Please don't mistake my briefness for brusqueness; I'm in a rush this AM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
The design of Berkman itself is actually quite good and conducive to pleasant walk (building, small yard, sidewalk, tree, bike lane, raised concrete barrier, on-street parking, traffic - that will be a very pleasant and well designed blvd once complete).
(read in Monty Python voice): "This is what I'm on about!" - this is the definition of a nice SUBurban walk. Building, yard, sidewalk, tree, bike lane, on-street parking; nothing to look at on the way; cars going fast in the travel lanes because there's nothing going on with the street-wall. New urbanism is rolling over in its grave.

Quote:
BTW, this isn't the first time they've refused to go urban. In Houston's Montrose neighborhood the neighbors begged and pleaded and city tried and tried to get HEB to do the same and they balked there as well with similar results. I agree it can be done, I agree that Mueller would have been a good place to start - but I can't fault Catellus for ultimately deciding to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Perhaps they should have courted Trader Joes more.
Then tell them to take a hike. This is not supposed to be a "as urban as we can get with minimal effort" development; and the presence of the HEB means there will be no credible grocer in the Town Center, ever, so it's not just the perfect being the enemy of the good here; it's the bad preventing the good from ever happening. There's not going to be much walking to this HEB (it's too far away from the denser areas of Mueller), but it's going to pull enough prospective Town Center business away by people driving there from the denser areas that it'll kill future competition before it's ever born.

If that seems harsh, and you're thinking I don't care enough about the people in Mueller being able to drive one mile instead of three to an HEB, then step back and think about it - you're concerned about their drive - how much more suburban can you get?

Quote:
3. Whether the town center gets built first or dead last doesn't matter in the long view.
It tells you the priorities of the developer and the planners. (And the concept of 'planning' a Town Center to this degree is loathsome anyways - this is not how real urbanism happens of course - this is how planned suburban communities are built). It also means you should be skeptical of promises made, moving on to:

Quote:
4. 5 years ago the world was on the cusp of a financial melt down which stopped many projects cold and killed many others.
Heard this many times. Not impressed. Tons of Austin developments happened during this period. Mueller kept building lots of suburban tract homes in the meantime, despite this.

Quote:
5. It was my impression that the town center plans are actually more ambitious, with higher levels of density, taller buildings, more opportunities for retail, etc. than there were previously. Is that not the case?
Nope.

Quote:
6. I don't think it's fair to call Mueller a suburb since, it's centrally located (2 miles from UT, 3 miles from the CBD), and well within city limits and basically urban in form. That is is medium density is without question - is a step up from the low density that is currently allowed w/n 80 or 90% of Austin and a vast improvement over concrete runways.
It's not basically urban in form. It's suburban in form - strict horizontal separation of uses, remember?

Quote:
7. Finally, Mueller isn't the only force in the area. Revitalization is creeping down Manor lot by lot. Its easy to see that in 10 years all of Manor between Airport and IH35 could be quite a strip of VMU. Can that jump across Airport and link right up to Mueller? Idk, but Contigo makes a good case that it can and will eventually.
Nope. Nothing can jump across Airport - it's a huge barrier that the neighbors designed to keep Mueller on one side and keep VMU slowed down to a crawl on the other side. Manor VMU isn't happening at all - the only thing that's been going on is repurposing of existing buildings; the neighbors were pretty vigorously against sensible VMU and that's one of the big reasons I thought routing urban rail out that way was incredibly stupid.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2013, 10:07 PM
Komeht Komeht is offline
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Again, I appreciate your perspective and, in my opinion, Catellus would never make a mistake by listening to those such as yourself advocating for Mueller to be more urban.

Just a few points:

1. wrt the form of Berkman: The elements (building fronted by a door not a garage, short or no setbacks, sidewalk, tree, bike lane, on-street parking, traffic lane) don't differ from what I've read or seen from streets advocated by new urbanists. You can find those elements (well maybe not the bike lane) in streets in traditional neighborhoods and town centers like Georgetown, Charleston, and throughout DC. It is very pedestrian friendly compared to a typical suburban roads (single story house fronted by garage, large yard, berms, swales, sometimes a side walk but often not, fixed hazardous objects (trees) removed, no on-street parking or bike lane, wide traffic lanes divided just in case to make happy cars).

I think two things you and I would probably agree on is that the building height could be even higher than the 2 stories on Berkman to better create a sense of place and that we would both have preferred a mix of uses to attract interest. Correct? I think it would have been better to locate shop houses or VMU for the entire stretch of Berkman rather than in just a few sections. But the design of the street itself is good.

2. wrt HEB: Perhaps Catellus should have held out - I myself would have preferred a Trader Joes on ground floor of a vmu type development. But that's a big ask from Catellus who's also trying to move lots.

3. The HEB is located in close proximity to the denser sections of Mueller. Just to the south is Section 6 - which is mostly townhomes, shop homes and very narrow lot sf homes - all those are <5minute walk. Just north of Section 6 will be Section 7 - those look like dense sf type development and maybe a 1-2 minute walk to the HEB. Just to the south on Simond are the 4/6 unit Mueller homes - those are approximately 5 minute walk. Across the town center (which will have the most interesting street life and walk) are Mosaic and Mosaic 2 apartment buildings - those should be a 5 minute walk once Philomena is connected. Next to the town center will be the new Amli apartments (I think these are VMU) - that will be a 5 minute walk. Immediately across Berkman another apartment was announced - that will be a 1 minute walk and likely. Those are just the existing or announced MF units. The plans look like much of the other areas in the 5 minute walk distance to be MF or dense SF.

Much of the rest of Mueller (the less dense areas) will be a 5-10 minute walk (or <5 minute bike ride) with perhaps some further units pushing the 15 minute walk. The closest Windsor Park units are probably at least a 5-10 minute walk with most being not walkable at all because of Bartholomew Park, the very hostile 51st St. and the large setback of HEB from Berkman.

I don't expect people doing the weekly grocery shopping will be walking too often for that. But there are a large number of units where walking or biking is at least an option some of the time - that walk will be mostly pleasant, even interesting if coming across town center, and not hostile at all.

3. I don't disagree with you about "planning" a town center - but that is how the new urbanist kids play these days. Triangle was planned.

4. Skepticism is good (especially from those who want a more urban Austin). I'm all for that.

5. While some Austin development occurred over the financial crisis period, a lot did not, and there wasn't any that I recall in town on the scale of Mueller. Every one on this board can rattle off the names of 10 or 12 projects that were either killed, delayed or significantly altered during the financial crisis. I can tell you from personal experience, no one was getting 100s of Millions in funding for commercial real estate ventures in 2008-2009 and even after that it was still extremely difficult - especially for something unproven and untested by banks (banks are still figuring out new urban models and get hung up on crap like surface parking spaces).

Also, It's true they built sf homes during the downturn, but it would be dismissive to not also note they built MF condos at Greenway and the MF Mueller houses on  Simond, and the MF Mosaic apartments and the Wildflower Apartments. . .so it wasn't all sf tract homes.  

6. That sucks if the plans for town center were scaled back. Perhaps if the economy continues to look strong here in Austin that will be revisited.

7. I agree there is too much separation of uses. Still, the narrow lots, the alleys, the garages out back, the short or no setbacks, the grid, the mix of housing, the mix of price points, the narrow streets, the on-street parking, the bulb-out blocks (as opposed to graded corners). . .these are all urban forms and elements. And the next best thing to a corner store on your block is a store a short and pleasant walk away. I think that's the promise of Mueller and I don't think dismissing it as merely suburban is accurate. Time will tell if it delivers on the promise.

8. There is at least one VMU project being built right now on Manor (right next to the rail track just west of Airport) - my thought was more would be on the way. It doesn't surprise me in the least to hear from you that the NIMBYs have slowed that down as much as possible. It seems insane to me that Manor - a simple walk or bike ride to UT, isn't just exploding with VMU - the potential for Manor is as good as any in Austin if the city would allow it to happen.

9. I agree that Airport is a significant barrier to development. Perhaps I was being overly optimistic earlier.

Anyway - thanks again for your thoughts on this and I appreciate your taking time on this discussion. At the end of the day I mostly agree with you and even where I think you're hard on Mueller, you are hard on the right side of the scale. I'd rather that the voices calling for Mueller (and Austin) to be more ambitious about urbanism be heard than those of the opponents.

All that being said, I shall let you have the last word on this if you like. Always enjoy reading your ideas and opinions!

Last edited by Komeht; Jan 30, 2013 at 5:28 AM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2013, 3:36 AM
H2O H2O is offline
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Stale Minus sucks! I was in there the other day to pick up some milk, and it stunk so bad I nearly wretched. I wouldn't buy anything there that wasn't sealed in a factory. I actually live closer to it than Central Markup or HEB Handoncock, but there are worth a short drive. I suspect the only people who would buy all their groceries at Stale Minus would do so because they don't have a car or bike to get to CM or HEB.

As a long time resident of Hyde Park, I think it is greatly overrated. I mean, most streets don't even have sidewalks, and the sidewalks that do exist are either so broken or discontinuous that it is easier to walk in the road. A lot of blocks don't have alleys, either, so the streetscapes are interrupted by frequent driveways.

Hyde Park isn't even very dense. Most of the houses are on lots larger than Mueller, and there aren't any rowhouses at all. Even the crappy low-rise apartments along Avenues A & B are much less dense then those at Mueller, and none of them are mixed-use. They are almost all separated from the street by surface parking lots as well.

43rd & Duval has some nice shops and restaurants, but the nose-in parking and continuous curb cuts are anything but urban and pedestrian friendly. It isn't even mixed-use.

To me, the only thing Hyde Park has over Mueller is the authentic charm of the old houses and the large mature trees. On the other hand, the houses can be a real maintenance headache, and many of the old trees are starting to die off.
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