[Saint John] Fundy Quay (South Market Wharf) | 19-6s | 70m-26m | U/C

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Project is not dead.
The city can't afford it to be dead.

I agree, the city cannot afford it to be dead. We will look back someday and appreciate the time and effort that was put into this project. I just hope that someday is in my lifetime

[BLeagues]

Hopefully not, but is it going to be like the proposed Irving HQ on Long wharf? Where it took so long for it to get the green light that the economics of the proposal/industry changed and did it in?

Originally Posted by Whaler

Project is not dead.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by BLeagues

Hopefully not, but is it going to be like the proposed Irving HQ on Long wharf? Where it took so long for it to get the green light that the economics of the proposal/industry changed and did it in?

Many things factored into the HQ project being shelved, including but not solely economics and timeframes.

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Project is not dead.
The city can't afford it to be dead.

Damn right - its importance to the waterfront can't be overstated.


retry_388 by meantux, on Flickr

Let's hope for some movement on this file in 2015.

[Helladog]

Looks like some movement on this project...


Credit: Edit of photo located at : http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb...4-0BC5491E.jpg

[Joe]

From this mornings Telegraph Journal


Fundy Quay development future remains unclear

Unnamed developer assessing market conditions

PETER JOHNSTON TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
Saint John • The future of the proposed Fundy Quay development remains unclear while the project, which is billed as the new face of Saint John, waits for market conditions to improve.
General manager of Saint John Waterfront Development, Kent MacIntyre, said work is still being done to determine what the project will look like. The project has fallen behind projections; construction on the development had been slated for fall of this year.
“The project continues through a due diligence period. We are working with the developer to ensure the property is maximized and phased to meet economic and market conditions,”he said.
The site for the development of the $100-million Fundy Quay at the former Coast Guard site was purchased by the city over a year ago. In the summer of 2013, Common Council approved $200,000 in legal, survey and environmental planning costs that would be used once a deal was signed.
“We are as anxious as everyone to see construction start. However, the time-line and analysis is not unusual for such a major project,”said MacIntyre.
MacIntyre emphasized the importance of conducting proper due diligence for the development, which includes assessing the economic outlook for the Saint John area.
“Developers carefully consider these and many other factors before committing to construction. As the adage goes, timing is everything,”he said.
The unnamed Fundy Quay developer would build a mix of retail, hospitality, condominiums and office space at the former coast guard site.
Stephen Alexander, chairman of Saint John Waterfront Development, said there is a non-disclosure agreement that will remain in place until the developer has completed due diligence and decides to move forward on the project.
“This is a completely commercial transaction. We are not in a position where any politician is going to make an announcement because it is not their place,” he said. Alexander maintains the project is still moving forward.
“It’s something like a duck paddling across a lake, you may not perceive much activity but there is a lot going on,”he said.
Alexander said the development of Fundy Quay and the scale of the project hinges on major economic projects such as the Energy East pipeline.
“A delay in the Energy East pipeline,” Alexander explained, “is something that potentially delays greater economic activity in the Saint John area.”
He points to a history of missed opportunities in the city with past mega projects.
“Saint John has done that repeatedly in the past 50 years, we have had major projects come through and that project ends and we haven’t captured any ongoing benefits,”he said.
According to Alexander, for economic developments like Fundy Quay to come to fruition, Saint John and the province must be successful in securing significant spin-offs like attracting companies to set up office in Saint John.
“We don’t want a few maintenance people employed by this pipeline because that is relatively few jobs. We want the engineering people who plan the maintenance, we want the accounts that support the engineers, we want the lawyers who support the accountants,”said Alexander,“No one economic activity happens in isolation.”
Alexander points out that though Saint John’s overall corporate office vacancy rate has ballooned to more than 20 per cent, the vacancy rate of class A office space is one of the lowest rates in Atlantic Canada – and that’s what corporations are looking for.
“It makes no sense to ask a company to come to town if we have no offices for them,”he said.
The last class A office building to be constructed in the city was the Mercantile Centre on Union Street nearly 25 years ago. Alexander points to Historica Developments and their successes with high-quality, luxury condominiums.
“It shows that there is demand for quality space whether it be residential or commercial,”he said.

[Whaler]

They have lost two partners now. Remember, the city is not doing this on their own. They want someone to come in and take control as either a partner or sole owner.
A few were interested but are having a tough time getting a hotel on board as the local economy can't support it at this time.
Don't let the smoke and mirrors from the manager fool you!

[HardTruth]

Originally Posted by Joe

assessing market conditions

Apartment Vacancy: 9%
Office Vacancy: 22.4%
Hotel Vacancy: 50%+

CMHC:

During the first three months of 2015,
residential construction activity in
Saint John included 6 housing starts,
down from 16 last year. Most of this
year’s output occurred in the singledetached
market. Last year, with 127
starts on record, Saint John posted
the lowest annual total for single
starts in more than five decades.
Unlike Fredericton or Moncton, Saint
John has experienced virtually no
population growth during the past
decade. As a result, the province-wide
rise in out-migration observed in
recent years has continued to have a
more pronounced negative effect on
housing demand in Saint John than
either Fredericton or Moncton.

In essence if we build now we will end up with this:


(http://damienstrailerpark.tumblr.com/)

I think its in everyone's best interest to wait it out. A shiny new complex that sits empty won't help the city unless we can fill it with seniors

[Joe]

Ho Hum, another it's close announcement

http://http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/coast-guard-site-overhaul-saint-john-1.3659375

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by Joe

Ho Hum, another it's close announcement

http://http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/coast-guard-site-overhaul-saint-john-1.3659375

While I agree it's hard to get too excited I believe we are in a "different" place now with the construction of the new IO HQ and the new restaurant coming to the waterfront. Ive seen a marked difference in the city over the past 6 to 12 months. Fingers crossed!

[WharfRat]

This article seem a lot like damage control to me, considering this story appear on the CBC a few days ago..

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/n...uest-1.3655147

I have no doubt the SJDC is working diligently on this file but whether they are any closer to "shovels in the ground" is yet to be seen. I agree 100% with UptownJeff, it does seem to be different, the core does seem to be moving in the right direction with some pretty good momentum (observed from away, no first hand experience). Gawd I hate being the "Debbie Downer" but SJers and her fans have been down this road before, definitely fingers crossed!

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by WharfRat

This article seem a lot like damage control to me, considering this story appear on the CBC a few days ago..

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/n...uest-1.3655147

I have no doubt the SJDC is working diligently on this file but whether they are any closer to "shovels in the ground" is yet to be seen. I agree 100% with UptownJeff, it does seem to be different, the core does seem to be moving in the right direction with some pretty good momentum (observed from away, no first hand experience). Gawd I hate being the "Debbie Downer" but SJers and her fans have been down this road before, definitely fingers crossed!

The other article mentioned the out-of-province mystery developer didn't want to spoil the surprise by showing off concept drawings. I'm sure this article is just the CBC getting back at them for not being nice enough to show it off.

[JHikka]

In larger Canadian cities some development projects can take years (and in rare cases, decades) to finally come to fruition; either due to financing, market conditions, municipal conditions, or any other combination of factors in place. A project of this scope in a market the size of SJ is likely similar in commitment and impact as larger projects in larger areas. In saying that, it's been years and years since we've been shown anything concrete on this project. I'll believe when I see shovels in the ground on this one. I feel like Scully opposite Mulder on Fundy Quay.

There does seem to be mention of a new restaurant being two floors and located next to Pugsley Wharf which must be the restaurant mentioned here recently with a 'waterfront view'.

[CdnEh]

[Helladog]

Looks like we've been waiting since 1946...


New Life for Canada's Oldest City, 1946

[Ire Narissis]

Though that 1946 proposal pre-dates Market Square and proposes development on both sides of the slip, so with Market Square in existence, I suppose we could consider it half done?

I do find it interesting how things have changed since the '40s in that the proposal wanted traffic flow at the heart of the development, whereas today it would surely be more about green spaces and pedestrian plazas.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Looks like we've been waiting since 1946...


New Life for Canada's Oldest City, 1946

Good lord.

Even the more recent renderings could be better. I imagine they will be changed as updates come. (Soon?)

[Fischbob]

DFO is renewing its lease at the Coast Guard site; the new termination date is June 30, 2018 (Source: http://www.saintjohn.ca/site/media/S...a%20Packet.pdf page 22). Beyond this date they expect to have newly constructed digs in SJ (probably in some horrible suburban location).

What does this mean for the Coast Guard site? With the site not generating revenue (besides parking revenue) past June 30 of next year, there may be increased pressure on Waterfront Development to get the redevelopment ball rolling again. Hopefully they can spin the 15% population growth we saw Uptown into a value proposition.

[saintjohnirish☘]

It says within Saint John so lets hope it is!

[Fischbob]

Article in the TJ today titled "Waterfront Announcement Expected Sometime This Year". Later in the article it's stated the executive director "hopes" the announcement will be before the end of the year.