DENVER | Transportation Thread

[CastleScott]

This is correct, there is no excess capacity on the existing freight line over Monument Hill.

Just an idea: Double track from Palmer Lake to a point just south of the Air Force Academy, this would help at a lower cost than going all the way to the south Springs.

Btw keep in mind that freight volume is down just a bit due to lower fuel costs that favor trucking.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Specifics aside, these are common general problems that other parts of the country have solved.Has anyone ever studied just tacking on another track or two to the side of the freight line? That would be an order of magnitude less cost than high speed rail. It's about $7 million/mile when we do that here. If you publicly fund it, your MOU with the freight companies includes provisions guaranteeing adequate passenger access.

Specifics matter, nobody else in the country (or at least no one I can think of) has to deal with the types of grades we have between Denver and CS. That was the main impetus for wanting to move the tracks out east. Rail movements are doubled (or tripled) by the need to position "helper" locomotives to get loaded trains up the dumb hill. Adding commuter trains to that mix was just not in the cards.

Now sure, you could build new track. But that's expensive.

Trucking costs don't have a huge impact on that route. But I do wonder what cheap natural gas and the move away from coal is doing to traffic on that line. I haven't looked at that.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Trucking costs don't have a huge impact on that route. But I do wonder what cheap natural gas and the move away from coal is doing to traffic on that line. I haven't looked at that.

Excel recently completed - well it's prolly been 10 years or so - a $1.3 billion coal fired addition in Pueblo that has all the new clean-tech bells and whistles. It even has solar to help keep the lights on. I assume that's where coal would be headed. That facility will continue to operate for many, many decades and gives Excel some nice economical strategic balance. I believe the electricity can be fed back into the south metro area as well as being linked to the SW Grid.

The coal plants that have been shuttered in Denver and Boulder and one to be closed in NW Colorado are all the old dirty burners not economical to upgrade or desired. Thinking that Excel got permission to keep the one in Brush with new scrubber upgrades. While NatGas has been attractively low priced and may continue there's no guarantees and it has a history of being volatile. Also they have started exporting it. Export facilities have been under construction for many years and are now coming online.

Considering that in he early 2000's Colorado got over 60% of their electricity from coal they've done a great job of reconfiguring their supply for the future.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Now sure, you could build new track. But that's expensive.

Expensive, but not $6 billion expensive. Back of the napkin, it ought to be in the ballpark of less than $500 million.

A few hundred million is still a lot. I'm not sure I'd spend that much, given the likely ridership. It may still not be worth it. But we should at least discuss practical alternatives, as about 20 other states have done, rather than throwing our hands in the air because we're not going to afford a bullet train.

[TakeFive]

People really like the idea of (more) transit; problem is they don't use it.
What's up with that, Jim Bob?
Bunch of dummies, Curly.

According to Denveright, 70 percent of da people in City of Denver drive while a little over 7 percent use transit. For the Metro area over 95 percent drive instead of using transit. The numbers are more encouraging if you just focus on downtown Denver where a little over 43 percent use transit.

Although the transit usage numbers have actually been a bit negative in recent years (in various areas and cities) I'm still a firm believer that transit needs to be a key component for the future. The question is how do you get there from here? Wouldn't it be nice if money were not a limiting factor?

I love the concept of Denver Moves. I think such exercises help paint the future, can help establish DNA for very good transportation bones. What that should look like makes for a good, fun philosophical and practical discussion. One (very biased) view can be found on the Streetsblog echo chamber. That's not to say it's without merit.

I would still favor using rail based transit where it can make sense and funding can be secured. BRT and more frequent bus service can also be appealing. But BRT only truly works well if it has dedicated lanes; otherwise it's just a name upgrade for bus service that still travels in traffic. Then there's the issue of growing and ongoing operating expenses....

What to do; what to do?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Expensive, but not $6 billion expensive. Back of the napkin, it ought to be in the ballpark of less than $500 million.

A few hundred million is still a lot. I'm not sure I'd spend that much, given the likely ridership. It may still not be worth it. But we should at least discuss practical alternatives, as about 20 other states have done, rather than throwing our hands in the air because we're not going to afford a bullet train.

I'm just not sure what different that would make over Bustang. Particularly if we get an express lane installed between Castle Rock and Monument.

[Cirrus]

The same difference it always makes. It would be more comfortable to ride, the capital costs would be an incentive to maintain decent operations once the line's in place, and it would capture that portion of the population that will never use a bus.

Whether it's worth the cost seems to me to depend on how much it would actually cost, and how much of that cost the freight companies and/or other third parties might partner on. You know, stuff we'd figure out if anybody actually looked into it.

End of the day, you may be right. We have a highway already and buses are easy. But nobody's looked, as far as I can tell. This is what planners are supposed to do. It would certainly be more productive than whatever study resulted in an unbuildable $6 billion fantasy.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Trucking costs don't have a huge impact on that route. But I do wonder what cheap natural gas and the move away from coal is doing to traffic on that line. I haven't looked at that.

Coal traffic is down along the line, though there has been a bit of an uptick if oil traffic. Can't see BNSF relinquishing too much of that line's capacity since it's their primary connection from the Mountain West to the Gulf Coast and the West coast.

But, who really gives a shit about connecting Denver to COS via rail? The day that there's significant support for that in the Springs is the day that Colorado College beats CU at football, aka never.

Denver to Fort Collins is where the party's at people.

[COS]

I understand the potential of the northern front range for both population growth and rail transit, and in fact it's probably one of the most ideal geographic locations to have the first magnet system in the US. At the same time though, you can't deny the fact that significant population growth in COS over the past decade, and currently it's as active as it's ever been, is directly tied to working professionals with jobs in Denver's south suburbs. As the DTC continues to grow it's business portfolio, so too will the population of the north/east areas of COS. An alternative transit option to I-25 & CO-83 will be crucial to sustainable population and economic growth for south Denver and COS. Looking at the population currently of the entire northern front range (Longmont/Loveland/Greeley/FoCo), it's very similar to COS. Both areas are nodes to the hub (Denver), and both need to plan for the future now because it's happening fast.

It's interesting to note that the distance from FoCo to downtown Denver is almost identical to the distance from downtown COS to the DTC (~60m). The differences reside in geography (flat going north, palmer divide going south). Both north and south are basins which provide the potential for growth and transit options beyond roads given the proper political support. The current generation clearly has an affinity for the front range, and in the next 50 years we have an opportunity to develop the next nightmare freeway system or the first Euro/Japanese style multi-nodal transit system in the US. Here's hoping we can work together as a state to develop the latter.

[TakeFive]

COS... Well stated and I agree

Talk about Going Big

A hearty congratulations to Phil Washington who left RTD to become Metro Chief Executive Officer in Los Angeles where voters recently approved Measure M. The half-cent sales tax increase will fund the most ambitious transit expansion in Los Angeles County history. What was especially impressive is that needing two-thirds for approval, the measure passed with 70% of the vote.

It is estimated that Measure M will generate $120 billion over four decades for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority or $860 million annually. Revenue will also fully or partly fund 10 highway projects. The tax will also fund much-needed sidewalk improvements, pothole repairs, cycling infrastructure, bike share expansion, and a network of greenways.

Well done, Angelenos.

[TakeFive]

Erica Meltzer of Denverite has a good article and update on the proposed GO2017 bond package.

The current thinking is to assemble a package between $500-$600 million for voter approval. It was determined that Denver could add up to $600 million in new bonding without raising property taxes. Realizing that the Denver Moves/Denveright planning won't be completed before decisions need to be made this amount makes good sense.

[TakeFive]

Photo credit: APP/Getty via The Daily Beast

Say Hello to Elaine Chao who President-elect Donald Trump has selected to be the new Secretary of Transportation. With a promise to rebuild America's infrastructure to the tune of $1 Trillion which has initially been refined to $550 billion, Chao will be a key person. Presumably the fact that she's the spouse of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is a good thing.

Despite the early panic by Streetsblog and other liberals there has been no indication (yet) that transit won't be considered and included. In any case if they get this done it should be good news for poverty-stricken CDOT and especially good for DIA as airports have been mentioned often.

For a guy who loves infrastructure - Duh - this is a symphony to the ears. DIA may be able to secure early funding commitments for terminal expansion which appears now will be needed sooner than later.

I can assure that the The Metro Denver Plan which has just received a fresh revision including a better name ( ) will dovetail nicely into the Trump Infrastructure Bill including having the necessary matching funds as additional incentive for winning voter approval. Full plan details coming soon.

[TakeFive]

Kudos to RTD


Photo courtesy Denver RTD

Denver RTD takes top Platinum award at Secured Cities for project innovation
NOV 21, 2016 BY STEVE LASKY - Security InfoWatch

The Secured Cities conference, in conjunction with Security Technology Executive (STE) magazine, recognized some of the most unique and collaborative security projects in North America this past week in Houston as the Security Innovation Awards (SIA) reception was held at the Reliant Crowne Plaza Hotel.

Qognify, the Denver RTD, and its partners captured the top award for devising one of the country’s most advanced and comprehensive enterprise-level security programs. Taking a phased approach that kept passenger safety and satisfaction at the heart of planning, the Denver RTD has been methodically and continually improving their transit system for more than a decade.

What about the train to the plane?

“Securing every train to the plane,” an objective for the latest phase of this innovative project, includes a first-of-its-kind fixed wayside VMS integrated with an on-board mobile video surveillance solution, powered by Qognify’s advanced video management. At the core of this solution and the entire security operation is Situator, Qognify’s advanced Situational Management/PSIM platform.

I once asked a tongue-in-cheek terrorism-teased question about RTD security and nobody knew nuttin'. Well... RTD been doin' good.


9News/Adele Arakawa had a nice segment about rhe A Train running on time all day on Thanksgiving eve when it was apparently very busy.


Lastly... too funny and too stupid
Pro tip: If you’re going to miss the commuter rail, don’t jump in front of it; wait for the next one
November 29, 2016 by Christian Clark - Denverite

[CastleScott]

Expensive, but not $6 billion expensive. Back of the napkin, it ought to be in the ballpark of less than $500 million.

A few hundred million is still a lot. I'm not sure I'd spend that much, given the likely ridership. It may still not be worth it. But we should at least discuss practical alternatives, as about 20 other states have done, rather than throwing our hands in the air because we're not going to afford a bullet train.

Ahh thanks Cirrus and that's exactly the point I was trying to make-just double track from the point on the northside of Palmer Lake were the double main ends-run a new second main to just south of the Air Force Academy which would be about 8-10 miles. This would maybe run say 130 million to also include some bridges-past the point south of the Air Force Academy the old Rio Grande main (BNSF) gets into a rather narrow spot for a couple of miles where a lot of exspensive excavation would need to take place. So just doing that first phase would take off a lot of pressure so as to help the freight flow enough to perhaps run some passenger/commuter trains. In Colorado Springs existing sidings could be connected to where the double main starts again at a manageable cost. Since I moved two yrs ago to Sacramento I've seen some similar scenarios of this around here (of course CalTrans works together with the freight railroads to get things done which is something CDOT could learn from)..

Oh btw yes coal traffic is down and oil is up a bit and a friend of mine who works for the BNSF told me they have been upgrading the signals as part the the Federal mandated PTC plus there has been some discussion in upper BNSF management about the idea of running inter-modal double stack trains from Seattle to Houston which would very likely run down the joint line.

[CastleScott]

Denver to Fort Collins is where the party's at people.

Yes this is true and Fort Collins and much of northern Colorado has more experience with bus service/mass transit than Colorado Springs (although COS is getting better bus service and with the military heavy there-from self experience the military sends you to cool places like Europe, Asia and other places where transit and high-speed rail reign king). Plus the BNSF main just hosts 8-10 freights a day with a couple of locals (the UP through Greeley is a bit busier with 14-17 a day and about 3 locals) and of course much of it runs on relatively flat land with many straightaways where good speed could be accomplished. That main has a lot of passing sidings which could be connected in spots for double track and I've heard from my BNSF buddy that a PTC compliant signal system is being added to it which will help a lot (much of the older signal system was removed from the days when Colorado and Southern used it in favor of a Track Warrant system that used constant radio contact with dispatchers to control train movements as the then Burlington Northern had less freight volume on it). However though with the proposed double stack Seattle-Houston service on deck as I mentioned earlier on the joint line some enhancements to this line maybe required (the double stack trains will come down from a point in Montana).

Just my 2 cents worth...

[mhays]

Be glad you have rail corridors where expansion is possible. Seattle is extremely lacking in existing corridors, and in the ability to expand the ones we have. That means commuter rail is severely restricted and any new service comes with expensive corridor upgrades. It also means shipments for coal or natural gas could make things even worse. That includes the main West Coast line north of town going along a waterfront along a landslide-prone hillside. It also includes tunnels through the Cascade mountains. And through Seattle itself. Our tens of billions for local transit will go at a very high cost per mile of new rail.

[TakeFive]

Example Number Five (Phoenix)

Part A

The light (finally) went on in the 1980's that the growing metro area needed additional freeways and additional (road) capacity. In 1984 voters passed a 20-year, half-cent sales tax that went to MAG or Maricopa Assoc. of Gov'ts which includes the whole metro area. In effect, DRCOG and MAG are sisters. Only about 17% of the funding was reserved for transit IIRC.

Fast forward to 2004 and with completing and under construction freeways, voters easily passed a 20-year extension of the tax. The new version allocated 32% to transit and resulted in the first urban 20-mile light rail train line (which is now being expanded on both ends). Prop 400 is expected to distribute about $25 Billion for transportation.

The takeaway
While there's many ways to skin a cat having a 20-year funding mechanism sure makes planning and executing projects more efficient.

Part B

In August of 2015, the City of Phoenix voters passed Prop 104 (MovePHX) which approved a 35-year seven-tenths sales tax for transportation. Four-tenths was already being collected but was set to sunset in 2020. The tax is expected to generate over $17 Billion for a spending/investment total of over $31 Billion. (PHX is a big city)

For perhaps a majority, the biggest appeal was a "fix the potholes" approach or good old fashioned maintenance and repairs. Yes, this sells well. For transit fans the intent is to add (at least) 42 miles of light rail and includes a lot of transit expansion and enhancement. As typical there's also bike lanes/trails as well as some green streets improvements.

When you add the City of Phoenix total of $31 billion to MAG's $25 billion we start to get into some serious transportation dollars. Assuming the MAG tax is again extended you're adding in another $35(?) billion to the metro pot within the same time frame. BTW, I believe the MAG numbers are unlevered meaning total investment with matching Federal funds etc. could be much much higher.

Note: this has nothing to do with how money should be spent. Each city/metro needs to decide for themselves what is best.

I believe that puts a wrap on my prep.

[TakeFive]

Task force needed for light rail extension into Highlands Ranch
November 28, 2016 by Alex DeWind - Highlands Ranch Herald/Littleton Independent

Various stakeholders are discussing establishing a task force that would work to extend light rail into Highlands Ranch from the Mineral Station on Santa Fe Drive in Littleton.

The 2 1/2-mile long Southwest Extension, estimated to cost about $145 million, would end at a stop south of C-470, northwest of Children's Hospital Colorado South Campus and west of Lucent Boulevard near the Solana multi-family housing project under construction

This one is "shovel-ready."

According to Bagley, RTD has invested $25 million into the Southwest Line extension, which includes property acquisition at the future Lucent Station north of Children's Hospital, preliminary planning and engineering for the entire corridor, acquisition of all track right-of-way and purchase of light rail vehicles.

Something I didn't know...

But for the Southwest Extension to progress, stakeholders and other third parties need to match a minimum of 2.5 percent — roughly $4 million — as the minimum requirement for all rail corridor projects. The project would also require vote approval from 10 of 15 RTD directors.

[TakeFive]

According to Megan Arellano, Denverite, A Line ridership reached a new high in September after a slight dip in August. September saw a little over 17,000 (averaged) ridership per day. For reference, the SE Line(s) averaged a little over 43,000 per weekday in 2015.

Megan had previously reported that RTD received the Travelport Project of the Year at the Global AirRail Awards.

Speaking of passenger counts DIA set a record according to DENVER (CBS4) of over 55 million passengers on Sunday, December 11. They expect to hit about 58 million passengers for the year.

[CastleScott]

^ I've really enjoyed reading these posts TakeFive and the others before, I wanted to share this: there was a transportation/transit Measure here in Sacramento that failed by a measly 0.58% because here in California Initiatives require a 2/3's majority to pass-so yes even in what you might think a rather progressive area there's still challenges as to the local electorate (Sacramento's Measure B would have built some road capacity as well as added funds for light rail to the airport and a line down to a southern suburb called Elk Grove as well as some additional light rail cars and a commuter train set or two for Caltrans which run some commuter rail service to the northeast suburbs of Roseville and Auburn).

I remember when Tabor was passed in 1992 it brought a scare to the powers at be in Colorado then and just look at the transportation problems now..