SAN FRANCISCO | Salesforce Transit Center

[Btown]

is it true that without macris, the whole project will fall apart? i heard that somewhere not sure though

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by Btown

is it true that without macris, the whole project will fall apart? i heard that somewhere not sure though

Unlikely. Even Chris Daly's a booster. Pretty much the whole city political establishment wants the project. What's not so clear is whether they want a project that TALL--but the genesis for the height appears to be that that's what's needed to get the kind of money from developers they need to do the terminal portion of the project and so that has a lot of backing too unless somebody comes forward with a lower design that pencils out.

SEGUE . . . .

Speaking of designs, the BizTimes today is reporting the following teams are in on the design competition:

--SOM partnering with the Rockefeller Group

--Richard Rogers partnering with Forest City and SMWM

--Santiago Calatrava partnering with Kenwood Investments

and also likely, but so far uncertain are

--Norman Foster partnering with Related Companies, TMG Partners and possibly Heller-Manus.

--Shorenstein with ?

I'll try to post the article when they put up an HTML version Sunday night.

[J Church]

Originally Posted by BTinSF

Any replacement?

Not yet. There were rumors of someone from the East Bay, but who knows.

Daly isn't just a supporter, though--he's ready to get out and sell the project to progressives. I asked him point blank and he answered directly and sincerely, I thought. He understands that this is necessary for Transbay to happen, and he has been that project's champion--check his track record.

Macris would've been good for momentum, for keeping the process on track, but what's really needed for it to succeed is a navigator, someone with cred in the community. It's an Only Nixon Can Go To China sorta deal.

[toddguy]

I really hope San Francisco gets some spectacular and stunningly beautiful design that is worthy of it. Something that says 'San Francisco"..and is iconic and elegant and becomes another landmark(and feasible of course).

*Holds out hope for San Francisco to get something incredible now that the original Chicago Spire is dead*

[Btown]

is it true that the two 850+ towers in the project will be completed before the terminal and 1000+ foot tower are done?

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by toddguy

I really hope San Francisco gets some spectacular and stunningly beautiful design that is worthy of it. Something that says 'San Francisco"..and is iconic and elegant and becomes another landmark(and feasible of course).

*Holds out hope for San Francisco to get something incredible now that the original Chicago Spire is dead*

The problem is, it's likely we won't know it when we see it. The building which is now iconic of San Francisco, the TransAmerica pyramid, was hated when it was first proposed and built. I'm also afraid that whatever the architects come up with will be massaged into mediocrity by the endless review process and planning requirements that San Francisco requires. That happened more or less with the pyramid too which was was originally designed to be taller.

[toddguy]

Good Lord..I just looked it up..too bad it did not get built at the 1150 foot design. And wtf with ""Pereira's Prick"..were they insane?



I actually think the US Bank building in LA would look really better in San Francisco. Kind of reminds me of the Coit Tower.







There are all kinds of decent buildings all over that look like some take on a San Francisco landmark.

A modern, slender and tall updated version of this old gracious building in Detroit would remind me of one of the towers of the GGB.





It even kind of has a twin in the background of the Detroit skyline..just span a bridge between them and..

[Btown]

maybe so, however i dont think theres any way that anything above 1000' would be approved by the city until now

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by Btown

maybe so, however i dont think theres any way that anything above 1000' would be approved by the city until now

I'm not even sure it should have been. We learned a lot in 1989 and 1991 about seismic design. I'm not even so sure we still know all we need to know to build supertalls in earthquake country, but we know more than we did before Loma Prieta, the 1991 LA quake and Kobe.

[Btown]

I want a few opinions about this. I heard someone talking about how cool it would be to have the 3 main towers be 1600', 1200' and 950'.

How long do you think until these kind of buildings might have little opposition in san franciso? or oakland... less likely

[toddguy]

How exactly did the Transamerica building fare in the Loma Prieta earthquake? Was there any minor damage or did the design do very well??

[Btown]

I did very well. No structural damage, and it swayed about a foot from side to side like it was designed to do during a quake. No doubt that these new buildings will be built stronger than the pyramid though

[ZZ-II]

great project for San Francisco!

[BTinSF]

BizTimes article on the desgin competition:

Stars come out for Transbay tower
Top architects, developers vie for chance to change skyline
San Francisco Business Times - December 15, 2006
by J.K. Dineen
Story Images

The Transbay teams are taking shape.

From Paris, London, New York and elsewhere, an extraordinary gathering of top international developers and designers convened at Herbst Theatre on Dec. 7 at a pre-submittal meeting for the Transbay Transit Center Design and Development competition.

While the various partnerships are still evolving, those vying for the right to develop the 1,000-foot mixed-use tower and high-speed rail station will likely include celebrity architects Santiago Calatrava, Sir Norman Foster, Richard Rogers, Cesar Pelli, and noted firm Pei Cobb Freed Partners as well as San Francisco's own Skidmore Owings & Merrill.

The tower and terminal could well be among of the most recognizable and high-profile buildings on the West Coast.

While subject to change, the early teams include SOM partnering with Rockefeller Group of New York; Richard Rogers teaming up with developer Forest City and local firm SMWM; and Boston Properties joining forces with Kenwood Investments and superstar architect Santiago Calatrava. Another likely contender will be Foster's Foster & Partners working with developers Related Cos. and TMG Partners, and San Francisco-based architect Heller/Manus. Shorenstein Properties may also join that team but is still deciding whether to jump into the mix, according to a company executive.

Jeffrey Heller, a principal at Heller/Manus, said he traveled to London in November to meet with architects from Foster's huge firm, which employs more than 700 architects, designers, planners, and engineers.

"We are very pleased to be collaborating with Foster & Partners," he said. "I think they are an amazing organization."

He said the terminal and tower "will be the flagship building on the West Coast for a long time to come."

Glittering array
Maria Ayerdi, executive director of the Transbay Joint Powers Authority, has been impressed with the quality and number of developers and designers gunning for the ambitious project, which in addition to a rail station could include a hotel, office space, condominiums, and retail.

"Having worked on this for almost a decade, it's gratifying to think that by this time next year we'll actually be looking at designs," she said.

Gabriel Metcalf, executive director of San Francisco Planning and Urban Research, said if handled well, the design competition could be "very important for the evolution of the city's architecture."

"At the most basic level, this will literally be the most visible building in the city. If it is good architecture, it will literally symbolize San Francisco's design sensibilities," he said.

But Metcalf cautioned that a building of this size with a complicated mass transit component will be challenging.

"As a rule, large buildings are more difficult and more important to get right. It's easier for a small mediocre building to blend in, whereas larger mediocre buildings stands out. We need this building to be great."

Metcalf also said the fact that the complex will also become a public transit hub makes it all that much more vital.

"I think it's important to understand the symbolic importance of making our primary transit station the most important spot in the city. It's making the idea of our transit-first policy legible and readable on the skyline."

The deadline to register for the competition is Dec. 21 and preliminary qualification submittals are due Jan. 11, which must include a detailed description of each team, including information on the developer, designer, engineer, contractor and transportation specialists.

The two-stage competition is expected to take nine months, with the final design and development team picked by August 2007. Construction would start in 2009, Ayerdi said.

jkdineen@bizjournals.com / (415) 288-4971

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...ml?t=printable

[BTinSF]

The Chron picks up the riff from the BizTimes:

International competition staged in S.F. to build new downtown transit terminal
- Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross
Monday, December 18, 2006


Quite a procession of big-name architects, engineers and developers turned up in San Francisco over the past couple of weeks to size up what's being hailed as the city's biggest development sweepstakes ever -- a new downtown transit terminal, coupled with an 80-story skyscraper.

If built, the high-rise would eclipse by least 150 feet the 853-foot-tall Transamerica Pyramid and could become the dominant feature of San Francisco's skyline.

"The current skyline is very flat, and needs some peaks to create a more distinctive look,'' city Planning Director Dean Macris said. (Ed. note: Huh?? I thought he resigned. Unlike Matier & Ross to make this kind of mistake)

Such is the prize sought by the more than 200 participants, representing 120 firms worldwide, who attended a pair of prebid conferences at the Herbst Theater over the past two weeks.

Among those showing interest was renowned Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, whose plan for a slender, twisting, 160-story tower in Chicago on the shores of Lake Michigan is undergoing final review.

The big question here is whether San Francisco can create enough demand to fill an 80-story high-rise -- one that would have a hotel, condos and offices to help cover the costs of the adjoining $1 billion transit terminal, serving Muni, AC Transit and the like.

Macris is hopeful, noting that commercial rents are rebounding strongly -- one big reason so many potential bidders showed up.

"They still see San Francisco growth opportunities,'' he said.

Then again, the last time the city had a major international competition -- back in 1988 for a planned Market Street tower that was supposed to spur the Yerba Buena Center development -- the project never took off.

One unknown this time: Another $1 billion would be needed to bring high-speed rail service to the terminal, and funding for that isn't likely anytime soon, if ever.

Finalists will be picked by a Transbay Joint Powers Authority panel Feb. 15, with designs due Aug. 10 and the selection of a winner just 15 days later.



Source: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

[Btown]

how is the terminal going to work with the high speed rail? will they build tracks and caltrain will use them until the hsr is built? or might it be some closed off area?

[BTinSF]

The heavy rail tracks will be extended via a tunnel from 4th and Townsend to boarding platforms on the lower level of the new terminal. If and when HSR is built, it would use the same tracks and tunnel to the same level of the building. Whether it would have it's own boarding platform, I don't know and all the descriptions of the project I have read are a bit coy about that. Since the plans for HSR are still pretty vague and the terminal is due to start construction in 2008, my guess is they would not want to designate anything for HSR that couldn't also be used by CalTrain until HSR becomes a reality--or if it never does.

[craeg]

Developers have filed a proposal to erect the nation's tallest buildings outside of New York and Chicago - a pair of slender San Francisco towers that would climb 350 feet higher than the Transamerica Pyramid.

The plan, filed today with the city's planning department, envisions a cluster of unusually thin high-rises spread across two acres at the northwest corner of First and Mission streets: two 1, 200-foot towers, two 900-foot structures and a 600-foot companion.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=122297

[Reminiscence]

I dont know if its just me, but I find it a little strange that TJPA has said nothing about this entirely new proposal. This leads me to believe that these new supertalls are totally separate from Transbay, which would be just awesome news.

[Btown]

it would be just awesome news, but im woried that instead of the level top sf's downtown has now at around 500'-600', it would be around 1000'. Big upbringing, but still, lets make some of these new towers stand out. maybe one at 1400' and one at 1600'. the rest 900-1200. I dont want downtown to look like it did before all this, but the buildings are bigger.