Small Ohio cities experiencing manufacturing revival thanks to fracking

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

Exactly what the Finger Lakes area of upstate NY (farming, wine, tourism, universities) DOESN'T need is to destroy its drinking water. You will be hard pressed to find anyone there who wants fracking. If Andrew Cuomo wasn't so bought out by greedy corporate interests it would have been permanently banned by now. The people do not want this.

Corporate greed in the name of "globalism" guts America's manufacturing jobs and now we have to grovel to the oil industry and accept tracking? Hell no. We don't have to live this way.

+1

Also, it's time for nuclear fission. China and the rest of the world are doing bold new 21st century technology while we're stuck with something discovered decades ago.

Get with the program guys.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

+1

Also, it's time for nuclear fission. China and the rest of the world are doing bold new 21st century technology while we're stuck with something discovered decades ago.

Get with the program guys.

You might be surprised at how the us govt is researching nuclear and other clean energy and China is most definitely still investing in coal.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

I grew up drinking well water in the Finger Lakes area. No one who lives in that area wants Fracking and it should not be forced on them.

That's fine and dandy, but I think people need to form their opinions based upon actual facts and real data rather than some hyperbole given to them from the more extreme elements of activists.

Show real stats, real data, real facts and figures. Discuss reasonable yet strict enough to matter regulations that must exist prior to any fracing getting underway. Discuss keeping away from environmentally sensitive areas. All of these things should be discussed and hashed out by calm, rational people. Not the extreme fringes, whether they be extreme environmentalists OR extreme industry supporters.

But damn it, upstate NY needs jobs and there is a LOT of untapped potential in the region. Why not do something with it, knowing full well that while natural gas is no panacea of environmentalism, it's a good middle step in the path from coal to more environmentally friendly energy sources like renewables.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[chris08876]

I'm trying to get into the oil industry as we speak, and I would love it if there were jobs in NJ and New York state but all of the good ones are in Texas, Alaska, Oklahoma, and North Dakota. I agree with Mr.Glowrock. A lot of potential in upstate NY. Sure the environmental industry is important, but oil is exciting from a career perspective.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by glowrock

That's fine and dandy, but I think people need to form their opinions based upon actual facts and real data rather than some hyperbole given to them from the more extreme elements of activists.

Come on, Aaron, everyone knows you're a paid corporate shill for the oil industry.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

You might be surprised at how the us govt is researching nuclear and other clean energy and China is most definitely still investing in coal.

China's building 27 reactors with dozens more planned for completion by 2020. Nearly all of these are Westinghouse AP1000's or a derived local design. While the US may be doing nuclear research, other countries are the ones that are benefiting from it. A mere 5 reactors are under construction in the US (one old PWR design, the others are AP1000's) all in the relatively progressive South.

The center of the nuclear industry is quickly shifting from the West to China and in a generation or two the US will be buying Chinese reactors to keep the lights on.

[chris08876]

^^^^

Wong, do you see the U.S. shifting towards solar energy as a long term investment?

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

China's building 27 reactors with dozens more planned for completion by 2020. Nearly all of these are Westinghouse AP1000's or a derived local design. While the US may be doing nuclear research, other countries are the ones that are benefiting from it. A mere 5 reactors are under construction in the US (one old PWR design, the others are AP1000's) all in the relatively progressive South.

The center of the nuclear industry is quickly shifting from the West to China and in a generation or two the US will be buying Chinese reactors to keep the lights on.

It's still notable that the AP1000 is a US design. At least they are not building Russian or EPRs. The US would be building more nukes, but for the explosion of shale gas leading to reduced returns for all new build power plant construction in the US. 4 reactors +watts bar is pretty good under the circumstances.

And what is the big innovation on the ap1000 - water stored above the reactor plus a single-block pressure turbine sourced from japan steel works instead of from a US forge. if we wanted to, the Us could build another 100 reactors easily mostly with domestic components but the question is do we want to bear the risk. Also, to what extent should utilities building these plants be forced to source from US OEMs. Why should US rate payers subsidize south Korean pressure turbine and other component manufacturers, as in the case of the Georgia nukes?

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Come on, Aaron, everyone knows you're a paid corporate shill for the oil industry.

Right, and of course non of the protesters against shale gas consume electric power at night or drive cars to their dream homes in the middle of the NY wilderness

[mrskyline]

Originally Posted by glowrock

That's fine and dandy, but I think people need to form their opinions based upon actual facts and real data rather than some hyperbole given to them from the more extreme elements of activists.

Show real stats, real data, real facts and figures. Discuss reasonable yet strict enough to matter regulations that must exist prior to any fracing getting underway. Discuss keeping away from environmentally sensitive areas. All of these things should be discussed and hashed out by calm, rational people. Not the extreme fringes, whether they be extreme environmentalists OR extreme industry supporters.

But damn it, upstate NY needs jobs and there is a LOT of untapped potential in the region. Why not do something with it, knowing full well that while natural gas is no panacea of environmentalism, it's a good middle step in the path from coal to more environmentally friendly energy sources like renewables.

Aaron (Glowrock)

The only "scientists" who think it's safe are the ones bought off by the industry. They are really paid propagandists.

Instead of groveling for lousy jobs in upstate New York we should be examining the economic forces which created the decline. For years we've been brainwashed into thinking that Globalization is like an uncontrollable act of nature. It isn't. We've been sold out. There isn't a free market when banks and oil companies receive tax payer subsidies and get us into useless imperial wars.

WNY has natural beauty and great quality of life. It doesn't need to be screwed up by corporate greed.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by glowrock

That's fine and dandy, but I think people need to form their opinions based upon actual facts and real data rather than some hyperbole given to them from the more extreme elements of activists.

Show real stats, real data, real facts and figures. Discuss reasonable yet strict enough to matter regulations that must exist prior to any fracing getting underway. Discuss keeping away from environmentally sensitive areas. All of these things should be discussed and hashed out by calm, rational people. Not the extreme fringes, whether they be extreme environmentalists OR extreme industry supporters.

But damn it, upstate NY needs jobs and there is a LOT of untapped potential in the region. Why not do something with it, knowing full well that while natural gas is no panacea of environmentalism, it's a good middle step in the path from coal to more environmentally friendly energy sources like renewables.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Wow, now this is a great post!

You do realize that when presenting FACTS that go against the popular OPINION on SSP, expect a backlash and insults from the usual SSP suspects.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by chris08876

^^^^

Wong, do you see the U.S. shifting towards solar energy as a long term investment?

One problem with solar is that the areas of the US with lots of sun (the SW and CA) happen to be the driest areas. Solar is very water intensive. Massive amounts of water must be heated up to produce steam to create electricity.

Heavy water use will require new sources of water in the form of desal plants along the coast. Desal requires a lot of energy. That energy will come from cheap fossil fuels.

It's a vicious cycle.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Come on, Aaron, everyone knows you're a paid corporate shill for the oil industry.

Not paid enough, that's for sure!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

The only "scientists" who think it's safe are the ones bought off by the industry. They are really paid propagandists.

Instead of groveling for lousy jobs in upstate New York we should be examining the economic forces which created the decline. For years we've been brainwashed into thinking that Globalization is like an uncontrollable act of nature. It isn't. We've been sold out. There isn't a free market when banks and oil companies receive tax payer subsidies and get us into useless imperial wars.

WNY has natural beauty and great quality of life. It doesn't need to be screwed up by corporate greed.

You, my friend, are a douchebag. Give me a damned break already! You managed to take everything I said about the hard, cold facts, evidence and figures and turned it into a situation where I am some sort of paid propagandist for the industry I work in. I simply stated that extremists from both sides need to get the hell out of the way and let the people who actually know the facts on both sides sit down and hash out a plan that everyone can grudgingly accept.

Are you seriously telling me that WNY is going to be destroyed by fracing? Has PA been destroyed by fracing? Do you really think there are no rules, no regulations in PA governing the industry? (For the record, I think there need to be even stronger regulations, but that's just me...) WNY is beautiful, no doubt about it, but the employment picture and general economy there is pretty much dismal. Energy development is no panacea, but it's certainly something that can put some real dollars back into the region's economy.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[mrnyc]

so right on time this opinion piece was in the free amny newspaper i read on the commute to work yesterday morning.

the major complaint is about the release of methane into the atmosphere:

http://www.amny.com/opinion/how-frac...hamp-1.9347596

[dc_denizen]

I've never understood the mechanism of how methane release from fracking could be any different from methane release from the nations other million vertically drilled natural gas wells. Is there any real difference, and does fracking deserve scrutiny that vertical drilling never gets? the gas is eventually coming up a pipe to the surface, irrespective of what happens 10,000 feet down

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I've never understood the mechanism of how methane release from fracking could be any different from methane release from the nations other million vertically drilled natural gas wells. Is there any real difference, and does fracking deserve scrutiny that vertical drilling never gets? the gas is eventually coming up a pipe to the surface, irrespective of what happens 10,000 feet down

Good point. I'm unaware as well, but the problems with fracking so far have been with poor well construction, which doesn't necessarily have to do with fracking in the first place. You can build a shoddy well or mismanage capping a gas well any time.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

I grew up drinking well water in the Finger Lakes area. No one who lives in that area wants Fracking and it should not be forced on them.

Where in that area did you live? How rural was it?

[mrskyline]

From the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...mates/3671199/

and there are many more articles out there saying the same thing.

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

The only "scientists" who think it's safe are the ones bought off by the industry. They are really paid propagandists.

Instead of groveling for lousy jobs in upstate New York we should be examining the economic forces which created the decline. For years we've been brainwashed into thinking that Globalization is like an uncontrollable act of nature. It isn't. We've been sold out. There isn't a free market when banks and oil companies receive tax payer subsidies and get us into useless imperial wars.

WNY has natural beauty and great quality of life. It doesn't need to be screwed up by corporate greed.

Very good post but I think there is no hope for upstate ny.