[Halifax] Permanent Wanderers Grounds Stadium | ? m | ? fl | Proposed

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Why is the Hamilton sports group, including the Forge soccer club, calling the shots for the proposed stadium ?

What shots are they calling? HRM regional council would determine budget decisions, manages this property, and can turn this proposal down.

The argument is that the Wanderers will defray a portion of the cost and there are other uses. There's a comment in there about how the municipality wants another artificial turf field for example. It is very reasonable for HRM to build some kind of outdoor venue like this, and unusual that Halifax doesn't already have one.

Of course Mr. Epstein is quoted threatening to sue.

[LikeCranes]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Wrong location.
Having been to stadiums in Scotland,England and Wales, pro and amateur, I continue to be amazed that public money would be spent on what will be a privately controlled venue and with the primary customer being a 6th or 7th level team - I am being very generous. You will see better soccer games at the Mainland Common. In the UK i never went to a reserve team game. If a child has the talent he will be spotted well before the age of 10. The profession has long since moved on from muddy pitches and part-time game officials. Not sure why the folks in Hamilton are so heavily involved in the Wanderers.

What matters from a business perspective is the quality of the crowd, how big it is, how much they spend. The team is drawing crowds. Snottiness does not affect the bottom line.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

Of course Mr. Epstein is quoted threatening to sue.

The Kommissar is always such a joy.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Colin May

HRM Major Capital projects :
Police HQ : $80+ million
Fast ferry : $100 million
Hammond Plains Fire HQ : $40 million
Electric Bus garage : $100 million
Halifax Forum : $100+ million
Plus roads,sidewalks etc

Why is the Hamilton sports group, including the Forge soccer club, calling the shots for the proposed stadium ?

Huh!?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Insigne

They are paying about about $2800 per game to rent the field. At that rate it would take them 250 years to pay off the $700,000 the city paid to upgrade the field before they took "possession".

Not a big soccer fan myself but I thought they played more than 1 game a year.

[new2halifax]

Originally Posted by someone123

The argument is that the Wanderers will defray a portion of the cost and there are other uses. There's a comment in there about how the municipality wants another artificial turf field for example. It is very reasonable for HRM to build some kind of outdoor venue like this, and unusual that Halifax doesn't already have one.

I do like the project, and the switch to artificial turf seems like a win for everyone. Hope it goes through, the economic benefits are a big plus for me. I would much rather see an upgrade on the current location than a new stadium isolated from local businesses.

Originally Posted by someone123

Of course Mr. Epstein is quoted threatening to sue.

New here so don't really know.. is this a recurrent theme? Opposition to change no matter what.. is that a thing here?

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Huh!?

David Bentley made a reference to Hamilton when he commented during the 'Public Participation' segment of the meeting and which took place before Mr Martin made his presentation. Normal practice at HRM committee meetings provides for public participation to take place at the end of a meeting.
Mr Bentley is very well known and respected in the business community and no doubt went looking deeper into the business part of the proposal. I did the same and considered going to the meeting but decided to stay home and keep quiet to see if what I know is also known by others. Allnovascotia.com may have details but it is behind a paywall (founded by Mr Bentley who also founded Frank magazine before selling it. He was one of only two journalists in Halifax who could write shorthand. Great journalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...y_(businessman)

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Colin May

David Bentley made a reference to Hamilton when he commented during the 'Public Participation' segment of the meeting and which took place before Mr Martin made his presentation. Normal practice at HRM committee meetings provides for public participation to take place at the end of a meeting.
Mr Bentley is very well known and respected in the business community and no doubt went looking deeper into the business part of the proposal. I did the same and considered going to the meeting but decided to stay home and keep quiet to see if what I know is also known by others. Allnovascotia.com may have details but it is behind a paywall (founded by Mr Bentley who also founded Frank magazine before selling it. He was one of only two journalists in Halifax who could write shorthand. Great journalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...y_(businessman)

Derick Martin is from Hamilton

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Derick Martin is from Hamilton

He is more than 'from Hamilton'. Do some research.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by new2halifax

New here so don't really know.. is this a recurrent theme? Opposition to change no matter what.. is that a thing here?

I am not sure how big a group it is but there are a handful of voices who are essentially the arch NIMBYs of Halifax and get interviewed by the media (Peggy Cameron is another one). They tend to obstruct projects using appeals and lawsuits when they can. They have not been able to do this as much lately as the planning rules changed to allow fewer appeals.

I'm not sure they've really been all that successful over the years or that they represent a large constituency outside of maybe the demographic of older South End homeowners who get upset when things change from what they were in the disco era. They didn't want Skye, they didn't want the Roy or Nova Centre or Willow Tree (Quinpool and Robie) projects, they don't want the Wanderers, etc. They don't seem to have much positive vision.

It is fine that they have their opinions but I'm not sure why they should have so much more weight than a random person on the street.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

What shots are they calling? HRM regional council would determine budget decisions, manages this property, and can turn this proposal down.

The argument is that the Wanderers will defray a portion of the cost and there are other uses. There's a comment in there about how the municipality wants another artificial turf field for example. It is very reasonable for HRM to build some kind of outdoor venue like this, and unusual that Halifax doesn't already have one.

Of course Mr. Epstein is quoted threatening to sue.

Who is he going to sue, and on what party's behalf? Not citizens. Let's put it to a local vote, you know, democracy. He's not an elected official.

I think he should be sued for being party to the blockading of developments, thus leading to the housing crisis.

[someone123]

Their complaint seems to be that the land is being de facto privatized and there are special rules around the commons. I'm not a lawyer but it seems very common for municipality to own and operate facilities that are rented out for temporary private use. An improved stadium there with artificial turf would arguably expand the public usefulness.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by someone123

Their complaint seems to be that the land is being de facto privatized and there are special rules around the commons. I'm not a lawyer but it seems very common for municipality to own and operate facilities that are rented out for temporary private use. An improved stadium there with artificial turf would arguably expand the public usefulness.

That is not the proposal from the Hamilton group. They want HRM to build and own the stadium and then have HRM enter into a a 20 year lease with the Hamilton group. They have not made any financial details public. They will control the use of the field and gain the revenues from any other group renting the field
We don't know the financial structure of the Hamilton group and how much skin they will have in the project. All the risk is on HRM and the financial benefits go to the private entity - unless HRM drives a hard bargain and limits financial exposure.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Colin May

He is more than 'from Hamilton'. Do some research.

Why?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Colin May

He is more than 'from Hamilton'. Do some research.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Colin May

That is not the proposal from the Hamilton group. They want HRM to build and own the stadium and then have HRM enter into a a 20 year lease with the Hamilton group. They have not made any financial details public. They will control the use of the field and gain the revenues from any other group renting the field
We don't know the financial structure of the Hamilton group and how much skin they will have in the project. All the risk is on HRM and the financial benefits go to the private entity - unless HRM drives a hard bargain and limits financial exposure.

Okay but did HRM accept this proposal? I could propose that HRM pays me $100M and they could say no.

The Wanderers stadium proposal seems eminently reasonable. One could quibble about details and HRM could make modifications.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I think he should be sued for being party to the blockading of developments, thus leading to the housing crisis.

Hopefully Mason would be a defendant in that suit for his actions in 2016 to derail the project on the Canadian Martyrs site that would have created over 1000 units of student housing, freeing up that many rental units elsewhere. See the last page of the 5900 Inglis St topic here for the details of his alleged shenanigans in concert with a group of South End NIMBY types.

[q12]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am not sure how big a group it is but there are a handful of voices who are essentially the arch NIMBYs of Halifax and get interviewed by the media (Peggy Cameron is another one). They tend to obstruct projects using appeals and lawsuits when they can. They have not been able to do this as much lately as the planning rules changed to allow fewer appeals.

I'm not sure they've really been all that successful over the years or that they represent a large constituency outside of maybe the demographic of older South End homeowners who get upset when things change from what they were in the disco era. They didn't want Skye, they didn't want the Roy or Nova Centre or Willow Tree (Quinpool and Robie) projects, they don't want the Wanderers, etc. They don't seem to have much positive vision.

It is fine that they have their opinions but I'm not sure why they should have so much more weight than a random person on the street.

[IanWatson]

It sounds like Howard wants to sue on the basis of the Common grant and the question of "public". Honestly that might not be a bad thing at the end of the day. For too long arguments around the Common have been tied up on debates around what constitutes public use and meets the intent of the Common grant. Having a court decision one way or another could lay this to bed and provide clarity for any future proposals for projects on the Common.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

It sounds like Howard wants to sue on the basis of the Common grant and the question of "public". Honestly that might not be a bad thing at the end of the day. For too long arguments around the Common have been tied up on debates around what constitutes public use and meets the intent of the Common grant. Having a court decision one way or another could lay this to bed and provide clarity for any future proposals for projects on the Common.

Couldn't it also jeopardize them?