Upstate NY, can it be turned around?

[Ex-Ithacan]

Here's an article about the Brain Drain upstate :


Upstate looks to plug its young brain drain
By Topher Sanders
Journal Staff

ITHACA — Upstate New York needs better marketing and a comprehensive employment database to attract and keep a young and talented work force, experts said Friday at Cornell University during a discussion of the “Brain Drain or Gain” issue in the region.

Upstate New York's weak population and labor force growth combined with a net outflow of college-educated people has raised concerns about a loss of qualified workers in the region.


Upstate New York had an out-migration rate of 13.4 percent from 1995 to 2000, a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Buffalo Branch, showed in August. Out-migration rates were higher in 25 states. The in-migration rate of 9.3 percent, shown in the same report, would be the lowest in the nation if Upstate New York were a state. The figures are based on the 2000 Census and include only the population aged 30-64 (age 25-60 at the time of the move) to eliminate college students who may have moved in and out of the region only to attend school, the report said.

Friday's discussion was sponsored by the Community and Rural Development Institute in the Department of Development Sociology at Cornell and featured economists and researchers.
Researchers asked large and small employers in the region what their potential employees found attractive or not attractive about Upstate New York.

Results of the survey indicated that Upstate New York needs better marketing to inform young people about the region's attributes and opportunities.

“The ‘I Love New York' campaign simply hasn't worked for Upstate, it's associated with New York City,” said Susan Christopherson, professor of city and regional planning at Cornell. “There needs to be something that is undertaken that is informed by the information that we have about what people are looking for here.”

One of Upstate New York's attributes noted by employers for attracting young people was the region's outdoor recreational opportunities, Christopher-son said. On the negative side, employers reported that the cities in Upstate New York are viewed as unattractive by young people.

“Amenities are important to young people, they like a vibrant, exciting urban life,” Christopherson said.

Ithaca Forward, an organization for young professionals in Ithaca, it is meant to help young professionals get better settled in Ithaca.

One of the organization's goals is to help direct young professionals to the many resources that exist in the community but are not well advertised to young professionals.

Investment in Upstate New York's urban areas, which Christopherson acknowledged was already taking place, would help make the area more attractive to young people.

Employers also told surveyors that young people wanted large scale housing developments similar to the kind found in southern states such as North Carolina and Virginia.

Creating a centralized source of Upstate Employment opportunities would help tell young people exactly what opportunities exist in the area, said Isabelle Andrews, project director for workforce intelligence at the New York State Association of Counties.

“It's all about jobs, what jobs are available, what are the wages, is there room for advancement,” Andrews said. “I think this is something that we haven't gotten right because we know that jobs are available. We're not doing a good job of letting people know what jobs are out there.”

Andrews' organization hosted a number of forums with new college graduates from Upstate New York to learn about their desires and concerns about employment.

Upstate fails to provide the professional and social networking opportunities that young people would like, Andrews said.

“It's about jobs and dates, let's be real,” Andrews said. “They want opportunities to socialize with their peers who have similar interest and education.”

Purchasing a home is an example of an issue often brought up by young professionals who would like more information on the process but don't know where to go, said Deb Mohlenhoff, chairwoman of Ithaca Forward.

“We're looking at ourselves as kind of a funnel to let people know what is going on in Tompkins County that young professionals should be accessing,” Mohlenhoff said. “And that model has worked well for us.”


cbsanders@ithacajournal.com


Originally published November 3, 2007

[xzmattzx]

The first thing that is needed in New York are new politicians. New York seems a lot like New Jersey: both Democrats and Republicans are big spenders and wasters, and almost all politicians are more concerned with themselves than about the people. They really need someone who will stop scratching the back of other politicians or isn't concerned more about re-election and someone who will do stuff that will help the communities of the state (like lower property taxes and business taxes to encourage new and small businesses, etc).

[JManc]

the capital region seems to be doing ok.

[Peanut]

the capital region seems to be doing ok.

I would say that Upstate has already started to Turn around. Look at the projects going on around Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester. Good things are happening, and we cant expect change over night.

[RocTX]

Creating decent, entry-level jobs is the main issue for upstate. Just speaking from my own experience, upon graduating from Albany State, my options boiled down to a choice between a thrilling career at a Rent-a-Center outlet in Schnectady, NY, and working as an assistant department manager at the Montgomery Wards at Pyramid Mall in Ithaca. I did eventually take the job in Ithaca, but within a year of graduation I had quit and moved to Southern California. I only bring this up because I believe my story is typical.

[NYRY85]

Anything I hear out of Utica is bad news. As if Utica wasn't as ghetto before, its just being over run by crime completely now.

My Alma mater http://blog.syracuse.com/wtvh/2007/1...high_scho.html

[dbrenna5]

I know that one problem here in Rochester, is that our leading University does not connect well with the city. Physically it is isolated, so in their four years the kids that come here (most of whom are from out of state) do not see or interact with the city much. Its disappointing that most of my friends here say they have no plans to stay when the graduate. Those are the same people that will admit they leave campus only to go to the mall.

Even though I am from Rochester and am certainly bias, I bet if these people had a chance to see what I see on a normal day, many of them would reconsider. Forget jobs. Graduates from the U of R know they are going to be good; they can usually go onto any graduate school that they like and regardless they are going to make money. The main reason they won't consider staying is because they have a negative perception of Rochester and upstate in general. I still haven't figured out how to change this. I try and get people to visit my apartment downtown as much as possible and show them the nightlife. Then find a way to weasil in the fact that I am paying $750 a month for a townhouse in the best neighborhood of the city. If that doesn't sell them, I don't know what will.

Most importantly though, at least with the undergraduates I am familiar with, jobs does not seem to be the main issue. Many of these kids are already wealthy, and they are not too worried about being successful. That is kind of a given no matter where they go. For the time being they want to be somewhere exciting and vibrant. Rochester does offer that, and I am assuming other upstate cities do as well. The problem is getting them to see that.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by NYRY85

Anything I hear out of Utica is bad news. As if Utica wasn't as ghetto before, its just being over run by crime completely now.

My Alma mater http://blog.syracuse.com/wtvh/2007/1...high_scho.html

proctor has always been ghetto and then UFA before that.

[NYRY85]

gotta love it

[Ex-Ithacan]

Here's an article from the Cornell Sun about upstate, and Utica is mentioned prominently:


Immigrants Flock To Upstate Towns
Print: Email: Share: November 20, 2007 - 12:00am
By Ben Eisen
Whenever Prof. Susan Christopherson, city and regional planning, gets into a cab in New York City, she tends to make conversation with the driver. To her surprise, the drivers, mostly originating from other countries, often speak of leaving the City for quieter locales and possibly settling upstate. This is becoming less obscure an aspiration, as many foreign-born citizens are migrating to the cities of Upstate New York.

A recently released study by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York says that a huge influx of foreign-born workers — over 200,000 in all — live in upstate metropolitan areas like Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo and Albany. Many of these residents are highly educated and tend to be attracted by jobs in technical fields.

According to the study conducted in 2000, more than half of foreign-born workers over the age of 25 were employed in either manufacturing, healthcare and social assistance or educational services.

The research suggests that not only are these immigrants chalking up population numbers in a region characterized by emigration, but they also help the economy by occupying a lot of the jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled. Foreign-born workers tend to take jobs relating to quantitative and scientific knowledge, whereas native-born workers tend to work in areas that require English fluency and knowledge of local culture.However, according to Christopherson, the extent to which these two groups cohabitate is not so simple.

“It’s a thorny problem,” she said. “If you say ‘I am going to advertise to fill my jobs with [foreign-born] workers,’ and that becomes public, people will ask why those jobs aren’t going to [native-born] workers.”

Prof. Douglas Gurak, development sociology, added that when the number of H1B visas granted to educated immigrants to do technical work in the United States was increased recently, many engineers protested, saying that the entrance of these new immigrants would take jobs away from the native-born population.

Prof. David Brown, developmental sociology, said that these highly-educated immigrants undeniably have an impact on the upstate economy, though the influence varies by region.

“Rochester [has the biggest impact] since it has both net in-migration internally and from abroad,” he said.

Gurak cautions that while this demographic contributes to the economy, there is also a substantial emigration of foreign-born workers as well. Because New York is often a first stop for people coming from abroad, people tend to migrate to other regions of the United States after settling in New York.

A study that Gurak published with fellow Prof. Mary Kritz, developmental sociology, entitled, “Immigration and a Changing America” examined these statistics. According to the research, by far the most popular destinations for foreign-born residents were the Southern and Western regions of the United States. The Northeast had the least foreign-born migrants to the region.

“There is strong growth in the South, and they are chasing opportunities,” Gurak said. “There are more dynamic opportunities down there in areas like manufacturing.”

Gurak cited the high tax rates in the Northeast as one reason for the emigration. He says that while infrastructure like public schools in the South in some cases may not be as good as in the Northeast, the environment for business is better in the South, which attracts many people.

Christopherson said that while highly educated foreign-born workers are important for the upstate area, skilled workers without college degrees are also necessary for many of the manufacturing jobs in the state. One of the keys to revitalizing the Upstate economy is supporting the development of small businesses, she says, and that requires a mixture of different skill levels.

“These [manufacturing jobs] are good jobs,” said Christopherson. “These firms could double their production if they got the workforce and facilities to operate. Foreign-born workers could potentially provide workforce for these jobs.”

Utica, a small town located about two hours from Ithaca, has become an example of how immigrants can turn an economy around. An old industrial center that used to be prosperous, the town began allowing refugees from war-torn countries like Bosnia and Cambodia to settle in the area in the late 1970s. Aided by the Mohawk Valley Resource Center for Refugees, more and more immigrants began to migrate to the town, taking low-level jobs and starting their own businesses.

Now housing about 7,200 immigrants from 30 countries, according to Reader’s Digest, the town has succeeded in providing for these refugees while also infusing itself with economic life. Many of the refugees have gone on to get college degrees and take high-level jobs.

Though no one is sure what role foreign-born workers will play in the future economy of upstate New York, other states are not relying solely on this demographic to fill high-level jobs. The Public Policy Institute of California released a study earlier this year entitled, “Can California Import Enough College Graduates to Meet Workforce Needs?”

For now, Christopherson and others are continuing their work to enhance the economy of the area in other ways, such as attracting young professionals and small businesses.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Ex-Ithacan

Utica, a small town located about two hours from Ithaca, has become an example of how immigrants can turn an economy around.

that's simply not true. the bosnians have done alright for themselves and they somewhat offset the population decline but the effect on the local economy is minimal at best and utica continues to deteriorate by the year. there are no opportunities for real growth. it won't be long before their kids will start moving away.

[Ex-Ithacan]

^JMan, how can you dispute the word of a college professor with academic backing and peer support?

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by Ex-Ithacan

Here's an article from the Cornell Sun about upstate, and Utica is mentioned prominently:


Immigrants Flock To Upstate Towns
Print: Email: Share: November 20, 2007 - 12:00am
By Ben Eisen
Whenever Prof. Susan Christopherson, city and regional planning, gets into a cab in New York City, she tends to make conversation with the driver. To her surprise, the drivers, mostly originating from other countries, often speak of leaving the City for quieter locales and possibly settling upstate. This is becoming less obscure an aspiration, as many foreign-born citizens are migrating to the cities of Upstate New York.

A recently released study by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York says that a huge influx of foreign-born workers — over 200,000 in all — live in upstate metropolitan areas like Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo and Albany. Many of these residents are highly educated and tend to be attracted by jobs in technical fields.

According to the study conducted in 2000, more than half of foreign-born workers over the age of 25 were employed in either manufacturing, healthcare and social assistance or educational services.

The research suggests that not only are these immigrants chalking up population numbers in a region characterized by emigration, but they also help the economy by occupying a lot of the jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled. Foreign-born workers tend to take jobs relating to quantitative and scientific knowledge, whereas native-born workers tend to work in areas that require English fluency and knowledge of local culture.However, according to Christopherson, the extent to which these two groups cohabitate is not so simple.

“It’s a thorny problem,” she said. “If you say ‘I am going to advertise to fill my jobs with [foreign-born] workers,’ and that becomes public, people will ask why those jobs aren’t going to [native-born] workers.”

Prof. Douglas Gurak, development sociology, added that when the number of H1B visas granted to educated immigrants to do technical work in the United States was increased recently, many engineers protested, saying that the entrance of these new immigrants would take jobs away from the native-born population.

Prof. David Brown, developmental sociology, said that these highly-educated immigrants undeniably have an impact on the upstate economy, though the influence varies by region.

“Rochester [has the biggest impact] since it has both net in-migration internally and from abroad,” he said.

Gurak cautions that while this demographic contributes to the economy, there is also a substantial emigration of foreign-born workers as well. Because New York is often a first stop for people coming from abroad, people tend to migrate to other regions of the United States after settling in New York.

A study that Gurak published with fellow Prof. Mary Kritz, developmental sociology, entitled, “Immigration and a Changing America” examined these statistics. According to the research, by far the most popular destinations for foreign-born residents were the Southern and Western regions of the United States. The Northeast had the least foreign-born migrants to the region.

“There is strong growth in the South, and they are chasing opportunities,” Gurak said. “There are more dynamic opportunities down there in areas like manufacturing.”

Gurak cited the high tax rates in the Northeast as one reason for the emigration. He says that while infrastructure like public schools in the South in some cases may not be as good as in the Northeast, the environment for business is better in the South, which attracts many people.

Christopherson said that while highly educated foreign-born workers are important for the upstate area, skilled workers without college degrees are also necessary for many of the manufacturing jobs in the state. One of the keys to revitalizing the Upstate economy is supporting the development of small businesses, she says, and that requires a mixture of different skill levels.

“These [manufacturing jobs] are good jobs,” said Christopherson. “These firms could double their production if they got the workforce and facilities to operate. Foreign-born workers could potentially provide workforce for these jobs.”

Utica, a small town located about two hours from Ithaca, has become an example of how immigrants can turn an economy around. An old industrial center that used to be prosperous, the town began allowing refugees from war-torn countries like Bosnia and Cambodia to settle in the area in the late 1970s. Aided by the Mohawk Valley Resource Center for Refugees, more and more immigrants began to migrate to the town, taking low-level jobs and starting their own businesses.

Now housing about 7,200 immigrants from 30 countries, according to Reader’s Digest, the town has succeeded in providing for these refugees while also infusing itself with economic life. Many of the refugees have gone on to get college degrees and take high-level jobs.

Though no one is sure what role foreign-born workers will play in the future economy of upstate New York, other states are not relying solely on this demographic to fill high-level jobs. The Public Policy Institute of California released a study earlier this year entitled, “Can California Import Enough College Graduates to Meet Workforce Needs?”

For now, Christopherson and others are continuing their work to enhance the economy of the area in other ways, such as attracting young professionals and small businesses.

(In a smoke filled Corperate room near you: Year 2001, post 9-11 guest speaker VP Dick Chaney)

Gentelmen, I've got a great Ideal, lets grant every H1 Visa we can get our hands on, bring in everyone that's even half skilled, put em to work, pay them less than we would a skilled US citizen, leave the southern boarders open, and tell everyone that "THESE ARE JOBS THAT AMERICAN'S WON'T DO"! If anyone bitches, we tell em, there are more jobs, the economy is getting better, and LOU DOBBS is a lunatic, don't believe a word he says.

Sound like a plan? Now, of course, there are going to be "SOME" PEOPLE in Buffalo, Rochester, and EVERYONE in Utica, that are going to see this negitively, aledging that they cant find jobs. There could also be an upward spike in minor crime. This can be summed up as "PLAN FAILURE". Small glitches in an otherwise working, prosporous system.

"Yep, works for me!"

[Ex-Ithacan]

^ Did I detect a touch of sarcasm in your response?




Here's some additional upstate news which doesn't help:


Dip in revenue from sales tax stirs concern
By Joseph Spector
Albany Bureau

ALBANY — Counties across New York are expressing concern about the effect a slowing economy is having on sales-tax revenue, saying receipts are not meeting projections and impacting counties' ability to pay for services.

Thirty seven of the 57 counties outside New York City saw sales-tax revenue in October dip below what was collected in October 2006, and county officials said this month's sales may be even worse.


While the holiday shopping season may serve as a boost, counties say the downturn in sales-tax growth could have a crippling impact as they grapple with growing costs for services and put the finishing touches on their 2008 budgets.

“Counties are relying more and more on sales tax as opposed to property taxes because our property taxes are the highest in the nation,” said Stephen Acquario, executive director of the state Association of Counties.
“That's troubling when your local budgets are contingent on the state's economy. If the economy is not yielding the sales-tax growth so necessary and so vital to funding state mandates, that's troubling.”

While the recent downturn has drawn concern in places like the North Country's Essex County where sales tax revenue was down nearly 11 percent last month, most counties have still seen receipts grow overall in 2007 compared to 2006. The growth hasn't necessarily met projections, though.

In Ontario County, sales-tax revenue is up 11.3 percent over 2006, while Schenectady County has had a 23 percent increase — the highest in the state.

But 15 counties — including Genesee, Niagara, Oneida, Orange, Schoharie and Schuyler — have taken in less sales tax revenue so far in 2007 than they did in 2006, according to data provided by the state Department of Taxation and Finance.

The impact has had varying effects on 2008 county budgets, which counties are in the process of adopting.

Counties on average charge about 8 cents per dollar in sales tax. The state gets 4 cents and counties keep the rest, often sharing some with local municipalities.

In Westchester County, County Executive Andrew Spano last week proposed a 4.7 percent property tax increase in 2008, partly because of drop in sales-tax projections.

Some counties said the sales-tax pinch has forced them to tighten spending, instead of raising taxes to make up the difference. The Association of Counties estimates that county property tax increases for 2008 are still consistent with recent years, averaging about 5 percent statewide.

Dutchess County Executive William Steinhaus proposed cutting property taxes this month by limiting spending increases and using money from the surplus account to curb taxes.

Steinhaus said counties would be remiss if they rely on sales-tax revenue to balance their budgets.

“People want to fall into the trap of sales tax,” he said. “But you have to look at the spending increases” of the budget.

In Monroe County, officials plan to limit the amount of sales-tax revenue to suburban schools in order to balance the 2008 budget, drawing criticism from school officials and leading to a lawsuit.

Monroe County in recent years has had one of the lowest sales-tax growth rates in the state, typically lower than the rate of the inflation.

“The long-term trend for Monroe County sales tax has been below the CPI (the consumer price index),” said Bill Carpenter, county budget director. “It puts pressure to balance the budget when your revenue isn't growing as fast as the CPI.”


JSPECTOR@Gannett.com


Originally published November 24, 2007

[NYRY85]

Originally Posted by JMancuso

that's simply not true. the bosnians have done alright for themselves and they somewhat offset the population decline but the effect on the local economy is minimal at best and utica continues to deteriorate by the year. there are no opportunities for real growth. it won't be long before their kids will start moving away.

Two hours from Ithaca? what the hell is he talking about?

can't he just say an hour east of syracuse or west of albany? its absolutely nowhere near ithaca

"los angeles, located about 5 hours plane ride west of new york"

[Ex-Ithacan]

^ I think he was referencing the location against Ithaca because the article was in the Cornell University (Ithaca) newspaper. Hence the one hour from Ithaca to Syracuse, and one hour from Syracuse to Utica.

[NYRY85]

this thread is old but i was bored and wanted to figure out if utica was equidistant to nyc and buffalo.

turns out utica is about 16 miles closer to nyc than buffalo. too bad there isn't an interstate from utica to nyc, itd take 2 hours, and would save time for ppl coming from points west as well.

if you count city limits, its even shorter but still about a 16 mile difference.

[NYRY85]

damn the mob from keeping 81 out of utica. (attributed to its decline)

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by NYRY85

damn the mob from keeping 81 out of utica. (attributed to its decline)

I wish they would have, Then syracuse wouldnt have a Highway that splits the city in two.

[kznyc2k]

170 miles in two hours? I don't think so.