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  #33941  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 4:32 PM
sw5710 sw5710 is offline
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Anthony Wood, The CTBUH executive director, said the World Trade Centers needle is a permanent feature. When 1st completed the former Sears tower did not have antennae. This is the 1st time I have heard anything said from them.
     
     
  #33942  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 4:47 PM
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I'm not satisfied with the decision to count the spire.. but anyway. That's done. It's useless to debate, now. Let's accept it.

I just hope that someone will add a radome in the coming years.

Anyway.. God bless USA, etc etc..
     
     
  #33943  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NewYorque View Post
I'm not satisfied with the decision to count the spire.. but anyway. That's done. It's useless to debate, now. Let's accept it.
Accept the height, yes. The design, no. They've actually made the situation worse by declaring this mast to be part of the design. As I've said many times before, the building itself, while not the greatest, is fine. That mast just adds a horrible, cheap looking element to the design. It's unfortunate that people will think this is the best we could do. And as long as we continue to talk about the appearance at all, I'll continue to say how it looks.

I'm convinced that it the specific height of 1,776 ft weren't an issue, we would have had a different outcome on at least one of the accounts.
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  #33944  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:06 PM
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I agree with the decision mainly because if you discount the spire, then you discount all spires, lncluding but not limited to the Chrysler, ESB, 40 Wall St, 70 Pine St, etc.

As much as I dislike the (toothpick) spire atop the New York Times Building, I have no choice but to accept it as taller than the Chrysler Building.

As for One WTC, my only hope is that a future development on W 57th will add a (real) spire.
I don't expect art deco, but I hope for something good.
     
     
  #33945  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:07 PM
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Glad it counts. Not because I gave a damn about the 1776 number or beating the Willis Tower. It's just kind of nice to know it will be the tallest in the city for awhile.

Of course the billionaires staring down at the trade center roof from atop their Central Park beanpoles will be left scratching their heads.
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  #33946  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy View Post
I agree with the decision mainly because if you discount the spire, then you discount all spires, lncluding but not limited to the Chrysler, ESB, 40 Wall St, 70 Pine St, etc..
Forget about that for a minute, I want to know how you people justify where the height measurement begins.

But before I start reading your various excuses...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7298761.story

Tallest building ruling: Willis Tower loses to One World Trade Center


By Blair Kamin
Chicago Tribune
November 12, 2013

Quote:
....."Even though the cladding was taken off the spire, you can still see that it is an architectural element," said Antony Wood, executive director of the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat. "It is not just a plain steel mast from which to hang antenna or satellite dishes."

He said One World Trade Center would only become the nation's tallest building next year when it is at least partially occupied.

Reflecting intense public interest in the decision, the announcement was made before a bank of television cameras in a packed room of the 16th floor of the IIT Tower at the corner of State Street and 35th Street. The room looked out to the Chicago skyline, including Willis Tower.

The council’s height committee met for 3 1/2 hours last Friday at the Illinois Institute of Technology, where the council is headquartered. Representatives of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, a co-developer of One World Trade Center, addressed the committee, as did the skyscraper’s architects, the New York office of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.

Twenty-five members of the committee were present, according to Daniel Safarik, a spokesman for the tall building council.

Of the nine Americans on the committee, five are from Chicago, Safarik said. They include the committee’s chairman, Peter Weismantle, director of supertall building technology at the firm of Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture, and William Baker, chief structural engineer at the Chicago office of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.

According to Safarik, two committee members are from New York.

The council’s spokeman pointed out that a majority of the committee members present Friday were from outside the U.S. They were from such countries as Australia, Belgium, Canada, China, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Qatar, the the United Arab Emirates and the United Kingdom.

“I think the Chicago-New York thing is pretty overblown,” Safarik said. “It is a global organization.”


http://gothamist.com/2013/11/12/amer...nt.php#photo-1

America, F*ck Yeah: 1 World Trade Center Is Tallest In U.S.







http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/...e-World-Trade/

What This Willis Tower Vs. One World Trade Debate Is Really About




By Harry Sawyers



http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...ng-west/71507/

One World Trade Center Is Officially The Tallest Building in the West





Quote:
New Yorkers can't let Chicagoans have nice things. After much consternation and debate, the new skyscraper built to replace the World Trade Center's twin tower was officially granted the "tallest building" title, stealing the crown from the Windy City's Willis Tower.

One World Trade measures 1,776 feet tall when the 408-foot needle-like antenna is considered. That's some 325 feet taller than the 1,450-foot Willis Tower. The council needed to decide whether One World Trade's pointy top was considered a needle or a spire: A spire ruling would mean it counts towards the building's height while a needle would stay off the books, giving Chicago the win. So check your privilege, New Yorkers, because One World Trade barely escaped with victory.
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Last edited by NYguy; Nov 12, 2013 at 5:34 PM.
     
     
  #33947  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jsr View Post
Glad it counts. Not because I gave a damn about the 1776 number or beating the Willis Tower. It's just kind of nice to know it will be the tallest in the city for awhile.

Of course the billionaires staring down at the trade center roof from atop their Central Park beanpoles will be left scratching their heads.
Actually, that's okay with me because it will challenge developers to 'THINK BIG' (a line from Donald Trump).

I'd like to see some serious supertalls rise on W 57th that challenge the Willis Tower to the roof, then add a real spire on top.

Lower Manhattan can have that spire while Midtown North could have something better.
     
     
  #33948  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:24 PM
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Well I dont have a problem with it. Just look at the huge spire on trump Chicago 2' in diameter
     
     
  #33949  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:29 PM
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Well this is kinda cool short term cause nyc can claim an official 500m building. But looking at this for the next decade or two makes me worried. At 1368 there would be a building u/c that would be taller and a proposal that's taller. So there would be no barrier or resistance height to break. Now that the symbolic 1776 number is official I feel it's good be a huge resistance level (think financial stock chart analysis). We may not see anything in nyc proposed over 1750 for a while. I hope I'm wrong because money is the ultimate decider and that can always change the game.
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  #33950  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I want to know how you people justify where the height measurement begins.
My opinion is that the height measurement should begin from the very bottom to the very top. Bedrock to the very tip of the highest point (lightning rods included).

The Petrona Towers have been ruled taller than the Willis Tower, yet I do not agree with, but have no choice but to respect the committee's decision.
     
     
  #33951  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Good diagram pretty accurate, but the height difference between 1wtc, and the mecca clock tower is a little off, One World Trade communication ring is the same height as the mecca clock tower 3-9 clock face, not under and 1wtc spire is a little bit taller .
     
     
  #33952  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:35 PM
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Before, the spire/antenna issue was frustrating, but at least it was consistent. Sears had antennae and the Petronas Towers had spires.

Now, it seems like you design a spire, build an antenna and then convince the Council that its a spire. Also, you can build an entrance, and then convince the Council that its not really an entrance. If you can just bend the rules, how can anyone be satisfied with any building height?

I remember being frustrated when Petronas beat out Sears with a spire, but at they both played by the same rules. I feel like the new WTC is getting a pass. Would Willis Tower get the same treatment if they added beacons to their antennae?

I'm also bothered because it seems like Childs gave in. I remember him being really mad about losing the radome, but now he looks like a Durst apologist.
     
     
  #33953  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner View Post
Before, the spire/antenna issue was frustrating, but at least it was consistent. Sears had antennae and the Petronas Towers had spires.

Now, it seems like you design a spire, build an antenna and then convince the Council that its a spire. Also, you can build an entrance, and then convince the Council that its not really an entrance. If you can just bend the rules, how can anyone be satisfied with any building height?

I remember being frustrated when Petronas beat out Sears with a spire, but at they both played by the same rules. I feel like the new WTC is getting a pass. Would Willis Tower get the same treatment if they added beacons to their antennae?

I'm also bothered because it seems like Childs gave in. I remember him being really mad about losing the radome, but now he looks like a Durst apologist.
It seems to me it might be an issue of intent when the building is dreamed up then is going up. Is this a permanent extension of it, or pop it on then take it off. A temporary thing.
     
     
  #33954  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:46 PM
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My god that diagram is an absolute mess, it boggles my mind that they can call this building taller than Shanghai international finance center and Hong Kong's International Commerce center.

And LMFAO at Taipei 101 still being the tallest in Asia, I've always hated that goddamned building and it just wont go away. And don't even get me started on Zifeng Tower right above Sears.
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  #33955  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamliner View Post
Before, the spire/antenna issue was frustrating, but at least it was consistent. Sears had antennae and the Petronas Towers had spires.

Now, it seems like you design a spire, build an antenna and then convince the Council that its a spire. Also, you can build an entrance, and then convince the Council that its not really an entrance. If you can just bend the rules, how can anyone be satisfied with any building height?

I remember being frustrated when Petronas beat out Sears with a spire, but at they both played by the same rules. I feel like the new WTC is getting a pass. Would Willis Tower get the same treatment if they added beacons to their antennae?

I'm also bothered because it seems like Childs gave in. I remember him being really mad about losing the radome, but now he looks like a Durst apologist.
the Willis Tower argument is dead because even if you count the antenna it's still 1729 feet, less than One WTC's 1776 ft! So Willis Tower loses either way. The only win they have is height to roof at 1451ft vs. 1368ft.
     
     
  #33956  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 6:49 PM
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Well, it's official. One World Trade is the tallest. Though One is my favorite building I was hoping Willis Tower would win this debate. I was also hoping if they counted the full height it would be 1,781. But oh well. One WTC is the new champion.
     
     
  #33957  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

No access to elevators because they have to take a flight of steps? Does this entrance look non-significant? That's really stretching it a lot.

What do they think those steps are there for? Decoration? Yeah, the fix was in. The entire meeting was a charade. 1,776 it is.


Completely agree. "Just ignore that entire entrance when considering the height because it has stairs..." THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON IT'S 5 FEET LOWER THAN THE OTHER THREE ENTRANCES! PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THOSE STAIRS, THAT'S WHY IT SHOULD BE COUNTED. Such a sham.
     
     
  #33958  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:35 PM
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The determination doesn't matter to me. It's visual, not technical for me. As far as I'm concerned, 1WTC is as tall as the top of the three rings right above the roof. Therefore, Willis Tower is still the tallest in my mind.
     
     
  #33959  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by deepen915 View Post
the Willis Tower argument is dead because even if you count the antenna it's still 1729 feet, less than One WTC's 1776 ft! So Willis Tower loses either way. The only win they have is height to roof at 1451ft vs. 1368ft.
I'm not saying that the Willis tower has much to gain from it, only pointing out how the Council has either blurred the line between a spire and antenna, or gave the WTC a pass.

If WTC now has a spire, then could any antenna with a single architectural element on top argue that they are a spire too?
     
     
  #33960  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:39 PM
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thread is almost at 1700 pages! wow.. I still remember when this thing first started. I joined when it was at around 800 I think.
     
     
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