Tucson Development Thread

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by Azstar

Since Rio Nuevo is funded primarily (if not completely) by sales tax revenues, which, I'm sure, have pretty much evaporated, what are the chances they will be able to continue with projects like the TCC Music Hall renovation, and other Rio Nuevo funded projects?

I was able to listen into the first hour of today's Rio Nuevo meeting. They mentioned that their income over the next 4 months will be close to zero. I did not hear any cancellations, but I imagine that mitigation strategies will be needed.

Additionally, I saw Nor-Gen's presentation. They are proposing a 4500ish seat arena on about 25% of the site. Pretty underwhelming. It appears the tent skeleton on Cushing will remain for some time.

[kaneui]

Originally Posted by Azstar

Since Rio Nuevo is funded primarily (if not completely) by sales tax revenues, which, I'm sure, have pretty much evaporated, what are the chances they will be able to continue with projects like the TCC Music Hall renovation, and other Rio Nuevo funded projects?

From the bits and pieces I was able to watch of today's board meeting:

1. In response to your question, Fletcher McCusker reminded everyone that the TCC improvements already have their own financing and are not dependent on TIFF revenues. Phil Swaim noted that the TCC projects will now be accelerated, since most events there have been cancelled for the immediate future.

2. I saw parts of the rather lame proposal from Nor-Gen, but not sure what the board did with it. I would hope they would reject it, hit Norville with the fines he owes as specified in the development agreement, and start the RFP process over again. I think downtown is in a different place now than it was a few years ago, and might attract some nationally-known developers who could propose something iconic and truly urban for this major parcel at downtown's west entrance.

3. The board approved a request from Ross Rulney to transfer his tax credits approved for the Julian Drew Lofts project to the adjacent Access 12 property that he recently acquired from the city. He said the lofts are going to get built (as well as the 7-story apartment building at 127 S. 5th Ave.), but that he wants to focus on the Access 12 property, probably due to a requirement of that purchase to spend $1M in improvements within 30 months.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by kaneui

From the bits and pieces I was able to watch of today's board meeting:

1. In response to your question, Fletcher McCusker reminded everyone that the TCC improvements already have their own financing and are not dependent on TIFF revenues. Phil Swaim noted that the TCC projects will now be accelerated, since most events there have been cancelled for the immediate future.

2. I saw parts of the rather lame proposal from Nor-Gen, but not sure what the board did with it. I would hope they would reject it, hit Norville with the fines he owes as specified in the development agreement, and start the RFP process over again. I think downtown is in a different place now than it was a few years ago, and might attract some nationally-known developers who could propose something iconic and truly urban for this major parcel at downtown's west entrance.

3. The board approved a request from Ross Rulney to transfer his tax credits approved for the Julian Drew Lofts project to the adjacent Access 12 property that he recently acquired from the city. He said the lofts are going to get built (as well as the 7-story apartment building at 127 S. 5th Ave.), but that he wants to focus on the Access 12 property, probably due to a requirement of that purchase to spend $1M in improvements within 30 months.

I had figured Rulney wanted to transfer the agreement to Access 12 because the Julian Drew project was proving to be unworkable. I'm almost disappointed to hear he still plans to move ahead with it because a three-floor single-use project on that site is a waste, IMO.

[somethingfast]

so is it safe to say that the 19-floor 75 Broadway is dead now?

[Ted Lyons]

So, uh, the Nor-Gen concept, which was supposed to be a mixed use project with a hotel is now . . . an amphitheater with acres of surface parking.

https://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uplo...April-2020.pdf

[Azstar]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

So, uh, the Nor-Gen concept, which was supposed to be a mixed use project with a hotel is now . . . an amphitheater with acres of surface parking.

https://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uplo...April-2020.pdf

What-a-joke.

[somethingfast]

I kinda like this concept to be honest. I think 7k seats is too small given the Casino Del Sol venue but it looks good and outdoor shows are usually better than indoors. If they don't raze the TCC and just building some new indoors than I say this is a good addition. Should be 10k though. You won't get major acts with 7k seats (Ozzfest, Maiden, whatever crappy "pop star" is flavor of the day, etc.)

[Thirsty]

I'm no audiophile, but building an outdoor amphitheater next to a busy interstate popular with trucking seems like a bad idea to me. They plan to book more than just Spinal Tap, right? Was there no land available under DM's flight paths?

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by Thirsty

I'm no audiophile, but building an outdoor amphitheater next to a busy interstate popular with trucking seems like a bad idea to me. They plan to book more than just Spinal Tap, right? Was there no land available under DM's flight paths?

Never mind the fact that this amphitheater cannibalizes TCC's business. If the amphitheater's proposed capacity is 7,500 and Tucson Arena's is a little under 9,000, they're going after the same shows. Maintaining TCC's economic viability is one of the core missions of Rio Nuevo so supporting this project would be absolutely nonsensical.

I can't help but think Nor-Gen decided this dumpster fire of a concept was the easiest way to force Rio Nuevo to breach. That would provide Nor-Gen leverage against monetary penalties.

[azliam]

I cannot believe this concept/proposal is still a question mark. I remember this from years ago and I left Tucson back in 2010. Unreal.

https://tucson.com/news/local/govt-a...fcdbaf595.html

https://www.kold.com/story/8454981/u...on-first-look/

[Azstar]

Originally Posted by azliam

I cannot believe this concept/proposal is still a question mark. I remember this from years ago and I left Tucson back in 2010. Unreal.

https://tucson.com/news/local/govt-a...fcdbaf595.html

https://www.kold.com/story/8454981/u...on-first-look/

It looks like this "new" proposal is just a scaled down version of a 2007 proposal that never materialized.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

Never mind the fact that this amphitheater cannibalizes TCC's business. If the amphitheater's proposed capacity is 7,500 and Tucson Arena's is a little under 9,000, they're going after the same shows. Maintaining TCC's economic viability is one of the core missions of Rio Nuevo so supporting this project would be absolutely nonsensical.

I can't help but think Nor-Gen decided this dumpster fire of a concept was the easiest way to force Rio Nuevo to breach. That would provide Nor-Gen leverage against monetary penalties.

I'm not suggesting that outdoor *sounds* better (although it can - think Wolftrap and Red Rocks) than indoors but it's usually a better *experience*. And that's what shows are about. Let's be honest, TCC SUCKS. It's horribly 70's in design and frankly doesn't sound that good. Saw plenty of shows their in my life across all genres (Diana Ross, Eagles, AC/DC, Metallica) and I would say it ranks low in terms of acoustics compared to most other venues I've been to (hell, McKale stomps all over it back when they actually did concerts - Whitesnake/Debbie Gibson...yes, I'm old!). Ultimately, in Tucson, isn't ANYTHING literally better than a big dirt lot? Things move at prehistoric pace down there...

[andrewsaturn]

The enclosed option sounds better just because it's hott during summer. It says 3,500 fixed seats and 3,500 lawn. How does that work for an enclosed amphitheater?

I don't like this idea as well. I know there are better ones somewhere even if it takes another decade lol. The TCC is underwhelming but it is here to stay. I think some research into sound/visual system is in effect this year but I never had an issue with the sound. I personally wish they look into a new video board.

https://www.downtowntucson.org/2020/02/tcc-renovation/

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

The enclosed option sounds better just because it's hott during summer. It says 3,500 fixed seats and 3,500 lawn. How does that work for an enclosed amphitheater?

I don't like this idea as well. I know there are better ones somewhere even if it takes another decade lol. The TCC is underwhelming but it is here to stay. I think some research into sound/visual system is in effect this year but I never had an issue with the sound. I personally wish they look into a new video board.

https://www.downtowntucson.org/2020/02/tcc-renovation/

Sorry guys I just have to say it - TCC is a piece of crap. It was a piece of crap in 1988 and it's an even bigger piece of crap today. It's Soviet-era value-engineering and architecture from the day it was designed. I absolutely agree that the best solution is build a larger, more-modern replacement. Tear it down. Put up a 12k to 15k arena and it will pay for itself over time with larger touring acts returning to Tucson. No premier acts that typically draw 10k+ crowds wants to play in small dumpy arenas. For crying out loud, TCC has been in discussion as obsolete for 20 years! A fresh coat of paint and new video/audio elements will not fix it. It did not start life as America West Arena which had a good design from day one for the crowd orientation to both games and shows.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Sorry guys I just have to say it - TCC is a piece of crap. It was a piece of crap in 1988 and it's an even bigger piece of crap today. It's Soviet-era value-engineering and architecture from the day it was designed. I absolutely agree that the best solution is build a larger, more-modern replacement. Tear it down. Put up a 12k to 15k arena and it will pay for itself over time with larger touring acts returning to Tucson. No premier acts that typically draw 10k+ crowds wants to play in small dumpy arenas. For crying out loud, TCC has been in discussion as obsolete for 20 years! A fresh coat of paint and new video/audio elements will not fix it. It did not start life as America West Arena which had a good design from day one for the crowd orientation to both games and shows.

The discussion to replace it is really like beating a dead horse. I really would like to see a brand new arena built and would vote for it in a heartbeat but I don't see it happening unless a private developer comes and foots the bill or most of it.

It doesn't get big acts but it really does serve its purpose for the current/shows events it has and it does fine for what its worth.

[Patrick S]

Apartments, hotels slated for 're-imagined' former Oro Valley Marketplace

[andrewsaturn]

I think this was posted before but don't remember! This article on March 27 says Bookman's is moving into former Chicago Music store according to Pat Darcy the retail division head of Tucson Realty.

http://tucsonrealty.com/tucson-retai...-by-pat-darcy/

[Patrick S]

Real Estate Daily News has an article about how they see COVID-19 affecting the health of the residential real estate market and home building in the Tucson market: https://realestatedaily-news.com/tuc...of-lao-tucson/

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

I think this was posted before but don't remember! This article on March 27 says Bookman's is moving into former Chicago Music store according to Pat Darcy the retail division head of Tucson Realty.

http://tucsonrealty.com/tucson-retai...-by-pat-darcy/

This article also makes it seem like 75 E. Broadway is still a go.

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by Patrick S

This article also makes it seem like 75 E. Broadway is still a go.

75 E Broadway is on Rio Nuevo's agenda tomorrow. Hopefully we get an update