DENVER | Transportation Thread

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

..........
Not really excited about having a giant park next to a commuter rail stop. I'd rather see plans to put some density there.

I do like the park design, and I'm not sure that its really so much about density..... but.......



it really is stupid for what needs to be high speed transit.

As mentioned, the walk will add about 5-10 minutes walking, and this just adds a whole new dimension to parking at a commuter stop...... as most commuters both to and from will just want their cars to be near the train.....

Hopefully there will be enough folks who would like to use this stop who will complain to the city administrative and planning folks that this is really a stupid design. Maybe greenery could be on one side of the tracks, but the other side of the tracks have to be designed for the convenience of the commuters who plan to use this.

I have to say that this really is the stupidest planning I've seen in quite a while......

[bobg]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't think it's trivial at all. Every 100-feet counts when we're talking about TOD.

Of course every foot counts, but I haven't seen us complain about the plazas at DUS, Englewood, Arapahoe Village, Mile High, Etc. (we may have I just don't remember it). At those stations in the grand scheme of things there's not as much space taken up by public space, it looks worse at Westminster because there's a giant park to the south that is currently open space. It's just a trivial amount of space relative to that park and the plaza isn't that far out of line with other stations that have such plazas.

[bobg]

I am not sure if this is still the case but the park and ride lot was supposed to be to the north of the plaza, I believe the parking on the south in the rendering is for the park itself. So I don't think it's really that far as the crow flies.

The bigger problem with the station layout in my mind is the platform is on the southern end only and all the parking and development is on the northern end. So 90+ percent of the people will have to go down stairs/ramps in the plaza and through an underpass and then back up stairs or an elevator to access the station.

[seventwenty]

Bobg, are these renderings and links part of the plans you viewed? I must admit I'm ignorant on the Westminster Station plan. Combining that ignorance with the Denver Post's rendering and statement that "40 acres of park and open space next to what will be the city's first commuter rail stop" didn't strike me as being in the same league as Englewood, Arapahoe Square, Broadway, DUS, Mineral or similar stations.

If the link I posted in this comment is indeed part of the Westminster Station plans, then some of my hesitation will be diminished.

Note: This link in particular provides an aerial view of the plan at the end. Here's the tl;dr screenshot:



Provides a substantially different context than this image:

[TakeFive]

^ I'd say

[bobg]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Bobg, are these renderings and links part of the plans you viewed? I must admit I'm ignorant on the Westminster Station plan. Combining that ignorance with the Denver Post's rendering and statement that "40 acres of park and open space next to what will be the city's first commuter rail stop" didn't strike me as being in the same league as Englewood, Arapahoe Square, Broadway, DUS, Mineral or similar stations.

If the link I posted in this comment is indeed part of the Westminster Station plans, then some of my hesitation will be diminished.

Yep that's it. Not sure what changed -if anything- last summer when they finalized the plan, but you can see the city wants more than just a park around that station.

For whatever reason the DP took one of the birdseye views and only showed the park.

[mr1138]

Thank you for posting that site plan SevenTwenty, I think it absolutely gives the context for this discussion. I was thinking earlier that people may have had the wrong impression based on the Post rendering. I think that rendering deliberately crops out the adjacent private land, because as of right now it's mostly storage units and other light-industrial crap. The temporary park-n-ride lots will be just north of the plaza, where it says "D" on the rendering.

The park isn't any larger than the existing open space, as has been said before, plus it's in a floodplain, so there's no development ever going in there. That park design is actually a HUGE improvement over the current state of that open space. The plaza, as bobg pointed out is really not out-of-line with other transit station plazas. It will take half a minute to cross for the average person, no big deal.

Plus, I have to say, there really is something to be said for the placemaking aspect of open space. In spite of all the many fair criticisms of new-urban design (retail isn't fully integrated, communities tend to be modular and inward facing, etc), I think that the open space is one thing these new communities are actually getting right. I would argue that the biggest flaw the classic American "big-city" grid, like what we have in Downtown Denver, is the lack of enough public open spaces being integrated into the urban fabric. The privatization of every inch of land that wasn't a street, and subsequent lack of public open space, is something Denver and other American cities have been fighting almost since their founding. Just look at the effort that went into things like the South Platter River Greenway, the new Union Station Plazas, and the current discussion of a new "square" in Arapahoe Square. Compare this to older cities where little plazas and parks are thoughtfully inserted everywhere in the built environment. These can become gathering spaces and places of public activity. The main transit node in the neighborhood, in fact, seems like a perfect spot for one of these places.

[The Dirt]

Maybe to appease the open-space NIMBYs. However, these actually look like proper parks.

For the record, I'm of the opinion that open space is probably the biggest PR scam to come out of Colorado. It's basically undeveloped, dry prairie-grass, snake infested, sewer-smelling land marketed as a park. Either give me a proper, irrigated park with soft grass, or call it a wilderness reserve.

[TakeFive]

Who here is ready to standup for transportation?

via fastracks.com

Be part of this national advocacy day sponsored by the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) to draw attention to the need for increased funding for our nation's transportation infrastructure.

Our nation needs to continually modernize and maintain its infrastructure to make the United States an attractive place for businesses to operate and for people to live. This requires collective action and sustained public investment in infrastructure notably at the federal level.

An opportunity to take the Signature bus tour.

[EngiNerd]

Just FYI, there is an RFP out for the SE light rail extension to Ridgegate, so looks like that piece of FasTracks is starting to move forward.

[TakeFive]

This is big; this is critical (you know how I am).

"CDOT unveils strategic plan for Colorado’s roads through 2040"
Mar 19, 2015 by Cathy Proctor, Denver Business Journal

“Like many other states, Colorado needs to explore funding options and finance mechanisms to stretch dollars further, replace declining gas tax revenues, and reduce dependency on uncertain federal funding,” said Shailen Bhatt, CDOT’s executive director.

The Statewide Transportation Plan was developed over the last year and involved nearly 60,000 Coloradans as well as regional and city-level planning organizations.

CDOT produced a nifty video, though it's a purpose driven overview on YouTube. The video is also featured on a new web page called Colorado Transportation Matters.

They mention, of course, the $800 million annual shortfall which I assume most just roll their eyes. But certainly this is a very true statement:

“Transportation investments will create and enhance access to jobs, enhance freight movement, support increased trade, and improve economic competitiveness,” he said

You know how the old saying goes: "you can pay me now or pay me later" and the "vig" isn't cheap.

per jobjoy.com

[seventwenty]

Thanks TakeFive. Look at the regional plans here. (Denver plan still underdevelopment)

[taylor23]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Denver Post write up on Westminster Station.



Not really excited about having a giant park next to a commuter rail stop. I'd rather see plans to put some density there.

The writer of that article but this station on the wrong rail line...

As for the park, I believe I read somewhere that standing on that platform looking out over the park will be a great view of downtown Denver. Would be a shame to block that view when there is plenty of room on the other side.

Is the electrified NW Line really going to be six cars long or did the artist get a little excited?

[CharlesCO]

Trains will be 2, 4, or 6 car consists. I'd be surprised if they were 6 cars when the system opens, but it will probably happen at some point. We eventually got to 4 car trains on light rail.

[TakeFive]

Anybody that gets a tingle over engineering/design/construction challenges should check this out.

[seventwenty]

Back in October, did we discuss the North I-25 EIS?
It was released back then.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Anybody that gets a tingle over engineering/design/construction challenges should check this out.

Underground LRT is something awesome cool. I honestly didn't think it existed until I went out there. Great line, great frequencies, at grade boardings, very good for the city!

[Cirrus]

Light rail subways aren't that rare. I mean, most US light rail systems don't have them, but a solid minority do. San Francisco, Boston, Philadelphia, and Seattle have very significant ones, Baltimore is planning a big one, and a few other cities like Portland and Dallas have a station or two.

We've talked about Seattle's light rail subway before, as a model for Denver. 4 stations, 1 mile through downtown, basically an exact analog to a Denver subway from Union Station to Civic Center.


photo from mspdude on flickr

[CharlesCO]

I use Muni Metro here in SF quite a bit. It's a really strange but cool experience in that it is a subway through downtown before fanning out into 1 or 2 car consists that stop every few blocks like a streetcar, or in some places, the trains travel farther and faster with level boarding stations in a more LRT design. It's an interesting mix of three different types of modes coming together.

[TakeFive]

Dueling Banjos Day at the DBJ

"Metro Denver workers are traveling farther to get to work"
Caitlin Hendee, Dever Business Journal
Based on a study by the Brookings Institute, it makes little sense to me.

Neil Westergaard of DBJ has an article about commuters to downtown jobs HERE.

According to the Downtown Denver Partnership, more than 60 percent of the roughly 121,000 people who work downtown say they use transit, walk, bike or share a ride to work. It's the other 40 percent causing all the problems