Most desirable (US) cities to millennials (survey)

[Centropolis]

nashville is very much of the austin model. my future brother in law moved to st. louis county from there last year, sold his mcmansion and bought a house in a suburban municipalilty that's more urban than the most inner city neighborhood in nashville (outside of downtown) and was happy to be rid of the mcmansion-interstate model. it's an extremely trendy city right now, though, and glassy condos are going up downtown right and left.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think you're conflating two things. It may be true that Nashville doesn't have the same reputation as Austin-Portland in certain parts of the country (it definitely seems to be true in the Northeast, where Nashville = Sunbelt, rednecks and country music).

Whether or not Nashville has had a "transformation" is irrelevant to whether or not it has a certain reputation. I mean, Austin is massively known as a hipster millennial indie type place, yet Austin is one of the sprawliest, most car-oriented, most chain-store oriented cities I've ever seen (supposedly these are things millennials don't want). There's basically no urban context.

SXSW and 6th street really gives Austin it's name and brand. The Austin Chamber of Commerce must be one of the best in this country because I don't really understand the allure of Austin either.

I mean, to be fair, it is the best city in Texas and because Texas is such a large state, it probably helps.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

SXSW and 6th street really gives Austin it's name and brand. The Austin Chamber of Commerce must be one of the best in this country because I don't really understand the allure of Austin either.

I mean, to be fair, it has the best city in Texas and because Texas is such a large state, it probably helps.

what i really like(d) about austin, is probably dead. it still exudes creativity and a sort of loose, breezy, eternal summer vibe but the pressures of mostly car-centric growth and an intense real estate market have faded that image. it's become a different, much faster place that still somehow doesn't have sidewalks everywhere it should.

nashville has sort of taken more "market" from austin as an affordable place for artists and others who like a creative vibe in laid back but trendy setting. nashville is suffering some of the same growing pains as austin, though.

[Xing]

Apparently cost of living wasn't part of their criteria.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by mhays

No surprises, other than I'd have put Miami, Boston, and Chicago higher.

Obviously migration doesn't look like the list...prices and job availability come into play.

Miami? Funny because I was just reading the exact opposite about Miami and millennials.

Love it in many ways, but definitely not a locale I associate with millennial desirability... unless they're just thinking about going to party.

From the Miami New Times... the Miami millennial publication of choice:

Miami Is the Worst City in America for Recent College Grads to Live, Work, and Socialize
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/mi...ialize-8484632

South Florida's Millennial Population Continues to Flee
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/so...o-flee-8312135

Miami Is the Most Expensive City in America for Millennials to Rent
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/mi...o-rent-7783288

Lower professional job opportunities, serious lack of affordability (especially anywhere millennials would actually want to live), and far lower numbers of young professionals than in other cities with more diverse industries.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think you're conflating two things. It may be true that Nashville doesn't have the same reputation as Austin-Portland in certain parts of the country (it definitely seems to be true in the Northeast, where Nashville = Sunbelt, rednecks and country music).

Whether or not Nashville has had a "transformation" is irrelevant to whether or not it has a certain reputation. I mean, Austin is massively known as a hipster millennial indie type place, yet Austin is one of the sprawliest, most car-oriented, most chain-store oriented cities I've ever seen (supposedly these are things millennials don't want). There's basically no urban context.

Well you're reading into 'transformation' a bit. Maybe I could have been more clear. I mean that the city has experienced a cultural transformation as a mecca for younger creative types. Not that long ago it was a backwater mostly associated with country music and not much else. It's catching up to Atlanta and Charlotte as a corporate/business hub and it has, arguably, the best food and music scenes in the Southeast.

You probably read transformation as relating to the built form. Overall, it's not much different than any other Sunbelt town with a decent economy. Urban nodes like Midtown, 12 South, and East Nashville have really strengthened. Overall though, yes, it is a sprawly metropolitan area.

[mhays]

It's true that image and built form can be very different.

I'm aware of Nashville's downtown explosion because of SSP. But its image from my perspective seems to be as Crawford described.

Austin is a media golden child, so it's interesting to hear about what it's like beyond the SSP photos.

Portland is great in many ways but don't expect big city urban beyond a few neighborhoods.

Seattle too...sometimes our reputation is ahead of reality.

As for Miami, I'm still surprised. This is about image, not reality. And they apparently asked people to name their #1 city. Miami is the iconic Florida beach/lifestyle city, and it's surprising that so few put that #1.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

SXSW and 6th street really gives Austin it's name and brand. The Austin Chamber of Commerce must be one of the best in this country because I don't really understand the allure of Austin either.

I mean, to be fair, it is the best city in Texas and because Texas is such a large state, it probably helps.

I actually like Austin, though, yeah, it's reputation doesn't really jibe with the real-world, at least not to me.

If it's true that millennials prefer old school urbanity, transit, density, indie stuff, quirkiness, etc. then it isn't clear to me why, say, Austin (or perhaps Nashville) is white-hot with millennials, while, say Baltimore or Pittsburgh, aren't.

Austin, to me, feels very new, very sprawly, very corporate. Is there even one truly urban, pre-auto neighborhood? I liked the hills, the lakes, the barbecue, but the urban form is quite poor, IMO. You could be right outside downtown and it already looks all suburban.

[mrnyc]

well, one thing that seems to tie seattle, portland, austin and nashville together, if the latter is a new magnet, is their music scenes. and can we get an atlanta to add some melatonin to the music mix? it seems millenials want to be with their music hotbeds of whatever stripe.

also, perhaps traditional urban form is much less weighted that expected.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by mhays

As for Miami, I'm still surprised. This is about image, not reality. And they apparently asked people to name their #1 city. Miami is the iconic Florida beach/lifestyle city, and it's surprising that so few put that #1.

The image of Miami still primarily remains that of a beach vacation place to the population at large. Not so much as a city in which to reside and work... with all of the interesting activities and opportunities that characterize cities like San Francisco, NYC, or Boston, for instance. Miami's the fun place to visit and party... and still not really taken seriously as a comprehensive urban center like others are. The remote location (and the fact that it is in Florida... a state without too much cred with millennials) plays a factor as well, I imagine.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by mhays

It's true that image and built form can be very different.

I'm aware of Nashville's downtown explosion because of SSP. But its image from my perspective seems to be as Crawford described.

Austin is a media golden child, so it's interesting to hear about what it's like beyond the SSP photos.

Portland is great in many ways but don't expect big city urban beyond a few neighborhoods.

portland is far more urban than austin. i had previously been to portland before i visited austin and thought that they would be closer in that department but when it comes to urban form they are an ocean apart.

[llamaorama]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I actually like Austin, though, yeah, it's reputation doesn't really jibe with the real-world, at least not to me.

If it's true that millennials prefer old school urbanity, transit, density, indie stuff, quirkiness, etc. then it isn't clear to me why, say, Austin (or perhaps Nashville) is white-hot with millennials, while, say Baltimore or Pittsburgh, aren't.

Austin, to me, feels very new, very sprawly, very corporate. Is there even one truly urban, pre-auto neighborhood? I liked the hills, the lakes, the barbecue, but the urban form is quite poor, IMO. You could be right outside downtown and it already looks all suburban.

Yeah I agree. To me its a tale of two different cities. The stereotypical Austin is a small piece of the region. The rest of it is very suburban, corporate, there's a retiree/old people feel in the hill country and in the north around Georgetown. I think there's more going on here than built form. Austin has a human element- a cultural and tech scene- that most cities don't. Texas is really big and the city has no real competition in those areas, so it is a natural magnet. UT is a good school that has long attracted young creative people and has done a good job at catalyzing economic growth in the region.

I think the socially liberal part of the hipster reputation may be merely a result of the contrast between a city that used to be disproportionately filled with college students, and how conservative the rest of Texas is. Nashville is probably the same way, given its location in the south. But honestly I think the "alternative" vibe in Austin is sort of fake and only a result of geographic concentrations of certain types of people and things that aren't necessarily rare or unusual elsewhere.

To answer your question about old "urban" neighborhoods:

Everything extending maybe 2-3 miles from downtown to the north and east is old enough to be from the streetcar era. Houses on small lots, with little clusters of sidewalk-facing commercial buildings. Increasing amounts of infill density. The area around UT has the "drag" of campus related activity. But its not nearly on the scale of a place like Denver or Portland. Then beyond that it breaks up into a lot of midcentury suburbia that is still contiguous enough with the old parts that it can sometimes be lumped in with the central city and get its hipster overflow, south Austin is like this IMO.

I think the best way to understand Austin is to have some idea of what it was like in the past. In the old days, Austin was this small town that sort of felt like a funky little city, but then it grew REALLY fast and the funky city part couldn't keep up. It's reputation may therefore stem from a small window of time in the past.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I think the best way to understand Austin is to have some idea of what it was like in the past. In the old days, Austin was this small town that sort of felt like a funky little city, but then it grew REALLY fast and the funky city part couldn't keep up. It's reputation may therefore stem from a small window of time in the past.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. And I'm probably discounting the human element. Still, it does seem odd to always hear Austin described as "weird" and "indie".

I mean, East Baltimore is "weird". Austin, not so much (IMO). On the surface, it feels like a classic Sunbelt city.

[austlar1]

I am a long term Austin resident. I've been here 20 years, and I am NOT a millennial by any stretch. As a native Texan, I've been familiar with the place since the mid 1960s when I was college age. I never really lived here until 1996, but I was a regular visitor prior to moving here. I had been living in DC or California for most of my adult life. I was drawn to Austin because it offered a laid back lifestyle that was very accepting and diverse. The cost of living was low, and there were a fair number of intelligent and creative people living here. The food scene was adequate. The music scene and club scene was very active and exciting. Austin looked like a small city and still felt like a small city. As has been pointed out, Austin does not have an old core, and there are still very few neighborhoods that feel especially urban or walkable. What Austin did have was a ring of tree shaded bungalow-like neighborhoods (built circa 1925 to 1955) with smallish frame homes that were very affordable to own or rent. The neighborhoods were fairly diverse and not completely dominated by families with children. They had a bohemian feel to them in some kind of hard-to-describe Texas way. Beyond those areas, a larger rather typical sunbelt city was rapidly expanding into the countryside. That countryside a bit further out could be affordable and rather pleasant, so Austin also offered the option of living out in the country close enough to have access to a city that was still fairly compact, hip, and accessible. Traffic was not a problem at the time. There was a trade-off to moving to Austin, but it met my needs. When I first knew Austin in the 60s, the city had about 200,000 and the metro had maybe 300,000. When I moved here in 1996, the city was around 500,000 and the metro was under 1,000,000. Twenty years later, the city has over 900,000 and the metro over 2,000,000. The highway system is overwhelmed with traffic, and there is no money or political will to fix it. There is no consensus about how to create good transit options. Rail proposals are routinely voted down because nobody agrees about what a viable light rail system or commuter rail system should do, where it should go, or how it should be funded. Downtown has been transformed from a run-down but charming and very user-friendly destination into a place with too many out-of-town visitors in too many brand new hotel rooms. There are also several thousand expensive new housing units in downtown high rise condo and rental towers. I am not sure exactly who is buying or renting in these buildings, but I can assure you that these new downtown residents are not the quirky locals that gave Austin its "Keep Austin Weird" vibe. Clubs and music/nightlife venues are being priced out and regularly close. Downtown is filled with overpriced restaurants pumping out mediocre food. The restaurant failure rate/turnover rate is very high. Parking costs about $10 a pop, cheap by some standards, but enough to discourage many locals from jumping into the car to grab a bite to eat or hit a bar downtown. Downtown is now a place to go for the big pre-planned outing for many locals. Another problem with downtown is the incredible freeway congestion on the main roads going through downtown. Also, there are special events just about every weekend that close roads and parks in the downtown area for local traffic. This really pisses a lot of people off, but we have to keep those new hotel rooms filled. Similarly, the old ring of affordable frame homes has been transformed into pricey neighborhoods that try to be all things to all people, just as long as those people can afford the tab. The old slacker/artist/musician crowd has nowhere to go except to the ever expanding outer ring of boring sunbelt sameness and cookie cutter houses/tacky apartment complexes in really depressing suburban areas. Many folks are opting to leave town. Nashville and Portland are popular destinations, but I think Nashville (and Portland) is experiencing some of the same things. Locally, Fort Worth is starting to be talked about for affordability and an interesting music scene. I think the bloom is off the rose for Austin. It is still a red hot town in terms of job creation. Tech is here to stay for certain. Still, the hype is no longer outpacing reality. I am kind of looking forward to Austin going off steroids. Maybe some of it can be reclaimed over time.

[StethJeff]

^^^ Great post. Very insightful yet concise. I feel like I just got everything I ever needed to know about Austin. Thx.

[the urban politician]

Chicago is one successful branding campaign away from smashing into the top of that list.

Of course, we have to resolve our $12 billion pension deficit first

[dc_denizen]

IMO Austin (and likely Nashville and maybe eventually Ft worth) looks like it's transforming into something more like Portland, and that's a good thing. Portland being the best realization in the US of a urban downtown w/out gaps and parking and dead zones/decay, coupled with dozens of square miles of leafy and beautiful craftsmen and bungalow style neighorhoods with well-designed commercial streets w/ infill.

there is plenty of room in downtown Austin to create portland-style residential infill and urban parks/spaces; it's great that they are filling in the gaps north of 6th street. I don't see the reason to complain about this development; Portland still has plenty of less-wealthy millennials, but also wealthier established residents and a strong economy with corporate presence. In portland all the funky areas are on commercial strips away from downtown; downtown is for corporations, tourists and yuppies, as it probably should be even in 'weird' Austin. I would hope that the downtown hipster areas would migrate away to the peripheral areas to stimulate infill and more activity in non-core zones; this is what happened in places like DC as well (the 9:30 club used to be on F street).


no need to think the glass is half empty.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

IMO Austin (and likely Nashville and maybe eventually Ft worth) looks like it's transforming into something more like Portland, and that's a good thing. Portland being the best realization in the US of a urban downtown w/out gaps and parking and dead zones/decay, coupled with dozens of square miles of leafy and beautiful craftsmen and bungalow style neighorhoods with well-designed commercial streets.

Portland is very nice, but for hard-core urbanists, lacking, IMO. It's more of a consistent lighter density over a pretty good area. More like streetcar suburbia than traditional urbanity.

But there are probably many people who actually prefer this level of density, so it's all good. Nothing inherently wrong with bungalows and 1930's-era commercial strips. And Portland has a ton of these neighborhoods, Austin and Nashville not so much.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Portland is very nice, but for hard-core urbanists, lacking, IMO. It's more of a consistent lighter density over a pretty good area. More like streetcar suburbia than traditional urbanity.

I have to agree, Portland seems to have a very bloated head these days but the city is in a very minor league and doesn't even offer a low cost of living to make up for it, it's like an oversized Ann Arbor without the huge metro region.

[the urban politician]

^ An oversized Ann Arbor? Give me a break. Portland's core is leagues above Ann Arbor. Sure it's pulling far, far, above its weight in this list, but let's not forget that this isn't a "greatest cities" list, it's just a "favorite cities for millennials" list. There is no reason that the biggest, densest, or most urban cities need to necessarily be on top.