CFL 2021 season?

[isaidso]

The CFL could do with more teams but its a reach to expect it to change the fortunes of football in the GTA. 1, 2, 3, or 4 teams isn't going to matter when 90% of the population has no connection whatsoever to football or the CFL.

It's bit of a broken record at this point but the only way forward is a massive, consistent, and long term (25 year) commitment to the growth of Canadian football starting with young people (under 16). It must start with educating young people on the sport's origins in Canada. If they accept it as part of their own culture they'll be far more likely to value it, follow it, and support it. Right now they don't. They view football as an import from the US. As long as that perception persists, the CFL will always be viewed as a pale imitation and expendable.

I'm continually puzzled as to why football folk in this country don't understand this. Fiddling around with # of teams and division re-alignment doesn't get us from here to there.

[esquire]

^ Are the historical origins of the game really that important in terms of selling it to young people? Basketball is hugely popular among young Canadians but I doubt all that many aware of James Naismith... it isn't really relevant to them.

[Andy6]

One of the MPs from Regina made a long speech in the House of Commons last Friday in support of the sports betting decriminalization bill, touting the advantages for the CFL. That is a major revenue stream, potentially, that could come at a great time for the league, according to what he was saying.

[craner]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

I've had the CFL on the mind lately. Maybe it's free agency and the lead up or all the restructuring of an contracts or what name Edmonton rebrands it self with, but man, I hope we get a season this year!! I wouldn't even care if the Riders were bad... (That's a lie, I can't help but care...)

Anyways I kinda re read the thread from the start and I do think that a CFL that can expand in Ontario and out east is the best way forward. I envision something like this.

West Division remains unchanged.
B.C., Calgary, Edmonton, Sask, Winnipeg

Central Division:
Hamilton, Toronto and three of Windsor, London, KWC, Mississauga

East Division:
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City, Halifax, Moncton

Teams within a division play each other twice and teams outside the division once equalling 18 games.

Obviously lots of hurdles to climb for this to work. Stadiums, owners, fans, etc. But if they can make some 15000 stadiums work and grow organically I think there is potential. That size of stadium would hopefully work well with CPL teams as well so maybe a new stadium in Halifax ends up with two tennants or London or Windsor pursue teams in both leagues.

How the league gets there is for someone more qualified than I to figure out, but I do think there is potential in the idea.

I like it!
The 3 divs of 5 teams works nicely for an 18 game schedule. How would playoffs work? Top 2 in each div with #1 overall getting a bye ?

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The CFL could do with more teams but its a reach to expect it to change the fortunes of football in the GTA. 1, 2, 3, or 4 teams isn't going to matter when 90% of the population has no connection whatsoever to football or the CFL.

It's bit of a broken record at this point but the only way forward is a massive, consistent, and long term (25 year) commitment to the growth of Canadian football starting with young people (under 16). It must start with educating young people on the sport's origins in Canada. If they accept it as part of their own culture they'll be far more likely to value it, follow it, and support it. Right now they don't. They view football as an import from the US. As long as that perception persists, the CFL will always be viewed as a pale imitation and expendable.

I'm continually puzzled as to why football folk in this country don't understand this. Fiddling around with # of teams and division re-alignment doesn't get us from here to there.

When I think of people in living in Toronto I imagine people really interested in history

I've said it 100 times you need more regional relevance.

No one in Toronto cares about a national league. They care about a league relevant to their area.

Putting a team in either Brampton or Mississauga is needed.

Both have the stronger regional identities, and a wide open insecurity of their position within the GTA.

Brampton specifically has a key target demo. New/young Canadians.

You either crack that demo or you give up.

History etc all of that is irrelevant.

What will create hype is the Brampton/Peel-Toronto Rivalry.

This doesn't happen with some folksy grass roots mentality.

You need an investor who wants to create a Peel Region branding.

And has a comprehensive plan in converting an old boomer sport into something 15 year olds from Pakistan-Jamaica can latch onto.

I actually think this is a lot easier then most would expect.

Targeting boomers in Markham, or talking about the sports history isn't gonna do it.

They are obvious add ons but they aren't the key issue.

You need a branding that puts Brampton etc on the map. You need a branding that will cause people to defend a "smaller" product.

Americans in Omaha don't run around trying to defend college football against the NFL. They defend their team against other college town teams.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

When I think of people in living in Toronto I imagine people really interested in history

I've said it 100 times you need more regional relevance.

No one in Toronto cares about a national league. They care about a league relevant to their area.

Putting a team in either Brampton or Mississauga is needed.

Both have the stronger regional identities, and a wide open insecurity of their position within the GTA.

Brampton specifically has a key target demo. New/young Canadians.

You either crack that demo or you give up.

History etc all of that is irrelevant.

What will create hype is the Brampton/Peel-Toronto Rivalry.

This doesn't happen with some folksy grass roots mentality.

You need an investor who wants to create a Peel Region branding.

And has a comprehensive plan in converting an old boomer sport into something 15 year olds from Pakistan-Jamaica can latch onto.

I actually think this is a lot easier then most would expect.

Targeting boomers in Markham, or talking about the sports history isn't gonna do it.

They are obvious add ons but they aren't the key issue.

You need a branding that puts Brampton etc on the map. You need a branding that will cause people to defend a "smaller" product.

Americans in Omaha don't run around trying to defend college football against the NFL. They defend their team against other college town teams.

CFL needs to lean into being - "State Fair Football!"

https://3downnation.com/2020/12/31/p...rrell-freeman/

We are what we are. So we're not as big and flashy as the NFL.....WHO FUCKING CARES!!!!....It's a fun league with damn good players, who are a lot fucking better than those basement dwelling momma boy Canadian NFL Loving - CFL hating twats think (if they think at all) they are.

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

When I think of people in living in Toronto I imagine people really interested in history

I've said it 100 times you need more regional relevance.

No one in Toronto cares about a national league. They care about a league relevant to their area.

Putting a team in either Brampton or Mississauga is needed.

Both have the stronger regional identities, and a wide open insecurity of their position within the GTA.

Brampton specifically has a key target demo. New/young Canadians.

You either crack that demo or you give up.

History etc all of that is irrelevant.

What will create hype is the Brampton/Peel-Toronto Rivalry.

This doesn't happen with some folksy grass roots mentality.

You need an investor who wants to create a Peel Region branding.

And has a comprehensive plan in converting an old boomer sport into something 15 year olds from Pakistan-Jamaica can latch onto.

I actually think this is a lot easier then most would expect.

Targeting boomers in Markham, or talking about the sports history isn't gonna do it.

They are obvious add ons but they aren't the key issue.

You need a branding that puts Brampton etc on the map. You need a branding that will cause people to defend a "smaller" product.

Americans in Omaha don't run around trying to defend college football against the NFL. They defend their team against other college town teams.

Bigger issue...is there an individual or group who'd be willing to put up the money for a team and potentially a stadium?

[Hackslack]

I find that those NFL fanboys who shit on the CFL are typically just “fantasy” football fans, not necessarily ones who would watch an NFL game for the sake of watching an NFL game that doesn’t have one of its players in the game. They would pretty much give that reason as to why they didn’t watch any particular NFL game, because they didn’t have any players in the game. They are basically fans who think they know the game, but don’t, rather, know the rules of fantasy football.

These fantasy football fans really don’t understand the rules of the CFL rule as well. The shit on the 1 point for missed field goals, yet don’t shit on the free 25 yards returning team gets for kicks into he end zone, or free catches.

CFL is full of great talent, big plays, exciting games. And, just like the NFL, has some bad games and bad plays as well.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by TimB09

Bigger issue...is there an individual or group who'd be willing to put up the money for a team and potentially a stadium?

Without question, it wouldn't be useful just to have 1 person either, you'd need people like Russel Peters(from brampton) to promote the team in some fashion or another.

[Acajack]

While it certainly looked like a good idea at the time (and I wouldn't have suggested another approach) I really think the CFL missed the boat with the way it managed the "growth" file in the late 70s and early 80s.

For those who remember, "the big time" and "growth" for the CFL back then meant putting a few teams in the biggest cities in NFL-sized stadiums. And so that's what happened in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and even Edmonton.

An unfortunate effect of that is that it also imposed a fairly rigid lower bar of stadium size based on the smallest stadiums in the league at the time, i.e. in the upper 20,000s. (I realize there were financial considerations as well related to capacity and attendance.)

At that point the gap between the Big O and Lansdowne may have been a big one but tolerable, but the gap between the Big O and the PEPS in Quebec City would have been just too great.

As a result since then no one has given the time of day to any potential CFL city that had a smaller stadium.

All of which to say that a CFL with Montreal and Toronto playing in smaller stadiums, with multiple other teams playing in 15-18,000 seaters in places like Quebec City, London or Halifax, might actually have been a better way to go.

With the higher interest across the country that that could have generated, it's quite possible that 30-40 years later, Quebec City, Halifax and London might even have graduated to 25-30,000 seaters by now, as the viability of the product could have been demonstrated to local officials.

[esquire]

^ Totally agree. Back in the 70s and early 80s Canada was building what were at the time fully NFL calibre stadiums… Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, (partially new) Toronto... the expansion model has kind of remained stuck there ever since even though it's clear that no one is going to build a Commonwealth Stadium-type facility in Halifax, Quebec City, etc.

You would think the relatively low expenses involved with a CFL team would allow an expansion team to work with moderately priced tickets and an attendance of 18,000 on average, and then they can grow from there. The CPL is basically doing that. Adding a few teams would significantly increase the CFL's footprint.

[The S'toon Goon]

Without a doubt the CFL needs to work to get fans.
-invest in grassroots programs. Introduce the game to kids! Don't assume that parents will do it! And for that matter introduce it to immigrants who may not know the ins and outs of the game
-invest in a partnership with Usports! A stronger university game will churn out better players! The university athletes could use instruction, publicity and general investment and the CFL could use some infastructure. (Let's stop seeing Laval as competition and get QC up and running!)
-invest in the league! As I said yesterday I think expanding is an idea to consider. Let's build some regional rivalries. Folks in London or Windsor may be cold on the CFL now but if they have the opportunity to play each other year in and year out the locals will come if for nothing else but to be better than the neighbour! It's a start!
Anyways, I used the term invest a few times now and it's always easier to spend someone else's money. I can't imagine the league is flush with money at the moment. But you gotta spend it to make it!

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Totally agree. Back in the 70s and early 80s Canada was building what were at the time fully NFL calibre stadiums… Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, (partially new) Toronto... the expansion model has kind of remained stuck there ever since even though it's clear that no one is going to build a Commonwealth Stadium-type facility in Halifax, Quebec City, etc.

You would think the relatively low expenses involved with a CFL team would allow an expansion team to work with moderately priced tickets and an attendance of 18,000 on average, and then they can grow from there. The CPL is basically doing that. Adding a few teams would significantly increase the CFL's footprint.

Doesn't shrinking the scale pose some real risks?

It's why I mention the idea of a cfl/farm/junior league.

Go big and small at the same time, and blend the two when one model or the other has become the clear winner.

The farm league wouldn't just hedge your bets, if you shared rosters, and opened more stadiums you could gather more ticket sales and cover more of the athletes costs. Ignoring the good press that would occur when you have more Canadian athletes part of the system in more eastern cities.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

Without a doubt the CFL needs to work to get fans.
-invest in grassroots programs. Introduce the game to kids! Don't assume that parents will do it! And for that matter introduce it to immigrants who may not know the ins and outs of the game
-invest in a partnership with Usports! A stronger university game will churn out better players! The university athletes could use instruction, publicity and general investment and the CFL could use some infastructure. (Let's stop seeing Laval as competition and get QC up and running!)
-invest in the league! As I said yesterday I think expanding is an idea to consider. Let's build some regional rivalries. Folks in London or Windsor may be cold on the CFL now but if they have the opportunity to play each other year in and year out the locals will come if for nothing else but to be better than the neighbour! It's a start!
Anyways, I used the term invest a few times now and it's always easier to spend someone else's money. I can't imagine the league is flush with money at the moment. But you gotta spend it to make it!

In my opinion London and KWC were the most overlooked markets(halifax is a distant 3rd)

Hamilton is in my understanding by far the biggest success of the Eastern CFL.

London could be a CFL city in a heartbeat, it's flaw is its abundance of minor league sports that already exist here, which in my opinion is a soft flaw.

8 games a year in a place that is very working class, tailgate orientated seems like a no brainer.

KWC would be the better location with a bigger population, but I feel London has the independent identity that could latch onto a CFL team.

That being said I think the CPL is gonna dominate Ontario in the coming years.

The league understands that the gap between minor league and major league is radically underserved in this country.

The London Knights is our roughriders equivalent. We're not a minor league town, and we're not a major league town either.

The beauty of any "C" league is that it can harness the best of both worlds.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

Doesn't shrinking the scale pose some real risks?

.

Ironically there are several existing teams playing before sub-20,000 crowds pretty consistently at the moment, so playing in front of 17,000 people in Quebec City or London wouldn't be that out of synch with the rest of the league.

[Acajack]

Most pro sports leagues typically developed their brand by multiplying the number of teams, not by turning a handful of teams into juggernauts and not expanding. I don't know why the CFL took that approach or if they even thought about it, but it certainly did a disservice to the league.

About the only league I can think of that's like that is the top division of Scottish soccer, where the top two clubs get 60,000 fans per game, and some of them get in the range of 10,000.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Most pro sports leagues typically developed their brand by multiplying the number of teams, not by turning a handful of teams into juggernauts and not expanding. I don't know why the CFL took that approach or if they even thought about it, but it certainly did a disservice to the league.

About the only league I can think of that's like that is the top division of Scottish soccer, where the top two clubs get 60,000 fans per game, and some of them get in the range of 10,000.

Rel-Pro something that only makes sense when your league is the size of a small provinces, can't work in Canada. Without that mechanism a league dominated by 2-3 teams doesn't work. Ignoring the fact that soccer has a total monopoly on european sports, and doesn't have to worry about someone's interest going elsewhere.



You need a salary cap/balance, which means you need consistent income streams creating balance.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by esquire

You would think the relatively low expenses involved with a CFL team would allow an expansion team to work with moderately priced tickets and an attendance of 18,000 on average, and then they can grow from there. The CPL is basically doing that. Adding a few teams would significantly increase the CFL's footprint.

The CPL seems to be developing itself in a great way. I'd have loved to see more games this year, after attending a couple for the first time in 2019. Hopefully we'll have that chance.

I worry for football's future in Canada, not just because of the pipeline of players and broader Canadian opinion/awareness of the CFL, but because I think the long-term effects on players (e.g., CTE) will eventually reduce interest in participating or result in legalities that make the finances of running a league infeasible. The NFL may have the clout to survive that (though I wonder), but not the CFL.

[thurmas]

I could cfl partner up with xfl 3.0 before there's massive cfl expansion in Canada as Canada takes decades to build stadiums an usually only when there's a pan am games or commonwealth games bid tied into them and I see none of those on the horizon. I wish this were not the case but our country doesn't build things quickly

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The CPL seems to be developing itself in a great way. I'd have loved to see more games this year, after attending a couple for the first time in 2019. Hopefully we'll have that chance.

I worry for football's future in Canada, not just because of the pipeline of players and broader Canadian opinion/awareness of the CFL, but because I think the long-term effects on players (e.g., CTE) will eventually reduce interest in participating or result in legalities that make the finances of running a league infeasible. The NFL may have the clout to survive that (though I wonder), but not the CFL.

Yeah, I agree with this.

My wife and I don't want our son playing football as he grows up. I sustained a concussion playing high school football and I never played after that. Too many complications from it.

Football is going to have to figure out a way to limit this but as a contact sport, that'll be hard to eliminate the physical play.