Is Newark, NJ a World Class City?

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by 10023

I think what you're going for is something like San Francisco and Oakland, but Newark is no Oakland.

Which is why I didn't choose that analogy. Clearwater is so overshadowed by Tampa and St. Pete. that few know about it. I would say San Jose but it is well known and as a technicality bigger than any other city in that region.

[10023]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

Which is why I didn't choose that analogy. Clearwater is so overshadowed by Tampa and St. Pete. that few know about it. I would say San Jose but it is well known and as a technicality bigger than any other city in that region.

But Clearwater isn't a great example because Tampa and St Pete aren't much themselves. Newark on its own would be a mid tier city - one with problems, but probably not unlike a Buffalo or even Cleveland. It just happens to be in the same urban agglomeration as New York City, a global capital.

[C.]

Wow -- that's kind of a crazy comparison but I like it... At risk of starting WWIII - Newark and NYC is like a Buffalo and Toronto (if Toronto was 10 miles from the border). Separate identifies and unique.

[10023]

Originally Posted by CIA

Wow -- that's kind of a crazy comparison but I like it... At risk of starting WWIII - Newark and NYC is like a Buffalo and Toronto (if Toronto was 10 miles from the border). Separate identifies and unique.

This isn't even a remotely viable comparison.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CIA

Wow -- that's kind of a crazy comparison but I like it... At risk of starting WWIII - Newark and NYC is like a Buffalo and Toronto (if Toronto was 10 miles from the border). Separate identifies and unique.

Buffalo and Toronto are like a million miles apart, and share nothing.

Newark is within view of Manhattan and basically just lower income peripheral urban neighborhoods that happen to constitute a city. There is no real Oakland or Long Beach "we are a distinct independent entity within a larger metro" feel. It's just part of that larger North Jersey mass of urban, but not NYC urban, towns.

[JManc]

I don't know about that. Newark may get lost within the NYC metro at times but it still retains its distinct identity unlike say...Jersey City which is basically Manhattan spreading across the river.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by 10023

But Clearwater isn't a great example because Tampa and St Pete aren't much themselves. Newark on its own would be a mid tier city - one with problems, but probably not unlike a Buffalo or even Cleveland. It just happens to be in the same urban agglomeration as New York City, a global capital.

I view Newark in it's own light. I even do so for Jersey City. The state line/river plays a major role. Meanwhile, Yonkers might as well be a part of the Bronx.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by 10023

This isn't even a remotely viable comparison.

Not even close, they don't even have a connecting bridge/ferry. He should have said Detroit/Windsor if you're going international.

Even Seattle/Vancouver is a fair, even if erroneous, argument here.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by JManc

I don't know about that. Newark may get lost within the NYC metro at times but it still retains its distinct identity unlike say...Jersey City which is basically Manhattan spreading across the river.

yes - the comparison to Long Beach is laughable.

Newark is a cultural force, totally separate from NY (they have their own accent for god's sake), and the center of a 3-4 million agglomeration of north NJ.

Philip Roth, Sopranos, etc etc.

is it a great city or an adequate center for such a region? no, but it's not LB.

[ThePhun1]

Long Beach is too close to LA to have an identity. It even borders it. Maybe if LA was the size of Dallas, Long Beach could be Fort Worth but that's about it.

[JManc]

Hey now...Long Beach has Snoop Dogg and the Queen Mary. LA does not...

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by JManc

Hey now...Long Beach has Snoop Dogg and the Queen Mary. LA does not...

I was gonna say, the LBC has a huge identity of its own within SoCal... I can't vouch for what people think of Long Beach, CA outside of SoCal, though.

Some have likened it to Oakland, though, in that some feel it's overshadowed by its bigger neighbor. But somehow I feel it punches above its own weight against LA more so than Oakland does against San Francisco, but I could be wrong.

[caligrad]

^^^ Ditto. Its always odd how Long Beach gets dragged into these kinds of debates. And its almost always based off of what people hear or what they see on TV.

Its all the same. I find it odd people try to seperate it.

Los Angeles - Long Beach
New York - New Wark (even though New Wark is a different state)
Dallas - Ft. Worth
Seattle - Tacoma
San Francisco - Oakland
Minneapolis - St. Paul
Miami - Ft. Lauderdale

Hell i would include Houston - Galveston if Galveston actually had something going on.

Literally. They are all in the same category. They are big cities being oversahdowed by their bigger neighbor. They each try desperately to have their own identity, They each in some way accomplish this goal.

The Bay area, There is a huge difference between San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, they each do things differently and its really evident when crossing the bay bridge, the difference between San Francisco and Oakland is clear.

Same with Long Beach. Believe not what you see on TV and movies. Long Beach and LA are 2 different cities with totally different vibes, it doesn't need its own language or dialect to distinguish it. People who are from here and people who visit are quick to notice the difference in attitude, way of thinking and way of doing things. Long Beach gets attached to the OC more than it does to LA. Doesn't help when Long Beach shares a border with Orange County and LAs center is nearly 30 miles away.

[Doady]

LA is a textbook polycentric urban area. Not dominated by single strong central core. NYC is probably probably the exact opposite, monocentric.

But still, the rivers separating Manhattan and Newark must have been bigger barriers back when Newark first developed. And this was in the pre-car era when the effective distances were much greater. I can believe if it has some of its own culture. It seems hard to dismiss it simply a suburb at least.

[chris08876]

At least Newark has a hip hop song dedicated to it!

• Video Link

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by caligrad

^^^ Ditto. Its always odd how Long Beach gets dragged into these kinds of debates. And its almost always based off of what people hear or what they see on TV.

Its all the same. I find it odd people try to seperate it.

Los Angeles - Long Beach
New York - New Wark (even though New Wark is a different state)
Dallas - Ft. Worth
Seattle - Tacoma
San Francisco - Oakland
Minneapolis - St. Paul
Miami - Ft. Lauderdale

Hell i would include Houston - Galveston if Galveston actually had something going on.

Literally. They are all in the same category. They are big cities being oversahdowed by their bigger neighbor. They each try desperately to have their own identity, They each in some way accomplish this goal.

The Bay area, There is a huge difference between San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose, they each do things differently and its really evident when crossing the bay bridge, the difference between San Francisco and Oakland is clear.

Same with Long Beach. Believe not what you see on TV and movies. Long Beach and LA are 2 different cities with totally different vibes, it doesn't need its own language or dialect to distinguish it. People who are from here and people who visit are quick to notice the difference in attitude, way of thinking and way of doing things. Long Beach gets attached to the OC more than it does to LA. Doesn't help when Long Beach shares a border with Orange County and LAs center is nearly 30 miles away.

If you're gonna misspell Newark, at least do it based on its name orgin, New Ark.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by Doady

LA is a textbook polycentric urban area. Not dominated by single strong central core. NYC is probably probably the exact opposite, monocentric.

But still, the rivers separating Manhattan and Newark must have been bigger barriers back when Newark first developed. And this was in the pre-car era when the effective distances were much greater. I can believe if it has some of its own culture. It seems hard to dismiss it simply a suburb at least.

18 miles is wholly significant before cars, especially without bridges. They were certainly different cities before cars, bridges and railroads and probably for some time after that.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

I think what you're going for is something like San Francisco and Oakland, but Newark is no Oakland.

So that means when you're trying to get out of New York for the weekend you can pass through Newark without risking being shot on the highway (what we call "freeway") or having your progress blocked by a "road show"?

• Video Link

[10023]

Originally Posted by JManc

Hey now...Long Beach has Snoop Dogg and the Queen Mary. LA does not...

And Sublime!

I actually think that Long Beach has a MORE distinct cultural identity than Newark, and to say otherwise is just East Coast bias.

Newark has no identity distinct from "Jersey", which again people think of as an outlying area of NYC, not unlike Long Island.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by 10023

And Sublime!

I actually think that Long Beach has a MORE distinct cultural identity than Newark, and to say otherwise is just East Coast bias.

Newark has no identity distinct from "Jersey", which again people think of as an outlying area of NYC, not unlike Long Island.

Please, I used to live that way. Newark has a distinct core. Long Beach has a core too but it's not all that distinguishable from just being another SoCal city.

For certain there's no way you can say Long Beach is more distinct than Newark. There's no way.