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  #161  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 8:50 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
most wealth is inherited, including the richardsons. all they did for their wealth was be born and then sit back while it creates more. this is good:

Who the hell wrote that. Speak English, not mumbo jumbo.
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  #162  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 9:07 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
The "tax" conversation always ends up being one of ethics, and I am as guilty of that as anyone. For some people the very idea of taxation is vehement, no matter what the money may be used for. To others the mere acquisition of wealth indicates a level of selfishness that they seem to find repulsive. The truth, as I see it, is that some people are simply better at growing wealth than others. Should these people be "punished" for utilizing their skills? Probably not, but my personal ethics tell me that "to whom much is given, much is expected". If one is able to grow and acquire vast amounts of wealth, I personally feel one should look for ways to use it to benefit their community and the people who live in it (IMO I would include the Richardsons, etc. in this category). Then again, you have people who acquire and hoard their wealth with no thoughts other than to buy one more house they will rarely use or one more car they will rarely drive. Are these people benefitting the community in which they have made their wealth? Should they be expected to?
"The truth, as I see it, is that some people are simply better at growing wealth than others."

OK, I'm not about to start pasting excepts from Karl Marx here but jesus, is that what wealthy people think? "I'm just wealthy because I'm superior to everybody else! Poor people just need to learn how to grow their wealth!" Born on 3rd base and thinking they hit a triple. No wonder there's so little empathy for the poor here. It would do some of you a world of good to live in a poor person's shoes for a month and see the challenges they face.
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 9:38 PM
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pspeid pspeid is offline
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Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
"The truth, as I see it, is that some people are simply better at growing wealth than others."

OK, I'm not about to start pasting excepts from Karl Marx here but jesus, is that what wealthy people think? "I'm just wealthy because I'm superior to everybody else! Poor people just need to learn how to grow their wealth!" Born on 3rd base and thinking they hit a triple. No wonder there's so little empathy for the poor here. It would do some of you a world of good to live in a poor person's shoes for a month and see the challenges they face.
I didn't mean for that to be my point, though I would not be surprised if that was a fairly common attitude among people who inherited wealth. My point was simply that not everyone is cut out to be a successful capitalist, just like not everyone can be a successful professional musician, author, or NBA point guard. We all have our own skills and abilities, some people are better at some things than others.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 9:48 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Who the hell wrote that. Speak English, not mumbo jumbo.
it's from Capital by Karl Marx. you should try to understand the system you claim to support.
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 10:01 PM
Gm0ney Gm0ney is offline
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The St. Louis Zoo is free - but there are a lot of attractions inside that they charge for. The sea lion show, the train, the carousel, the petting zoo. Our zoo could've followed a similar route - free to stroll around but charge for the Journey to Churchill, the tram, the Kinsmen Centre, etc. Then everyone would just bitch about how those attractions are only for the rich!

The Diversity Gardens are going to have a lot of gardens outside the Leaf building that I presume will be free to stroll around.
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 10:24 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
That’s not a good analogy since public education is a requirement up to a certain level. Higher education you have to pay something toward if you attend. Attending museums or conservatories is not mandatory but it’s reasonable for people to contribute something for superior facilities, as long as allowance is made for more disadvantaged groups to attend. I don’t know where this magical Tacheland is where everything has free admission.
A zoo and conservatory is everything? Who knew. Is the CBC everything?
Keep in mind that philanthropists and donors and sponsors could donate funds towards superior facilities. PBS funding model comes to mind.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:05 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
A zoo and conservatory is everything? Who knew. Is the CBC everything?
Keep in mind that philanthropists and donors and sponsors could donate funds towards superior facilities. PBS funding model comes to mind.
I really don't know where you are going with this. All over the world people pay admission to institutions like museums and conservatories, capitalist and communist countries included. The fact is that our communities wouldn't have these type of facilities without admission fees. As long as allowances are made, by way of free days, or special prices for more disadvantaged groups, then a happy compromise can be attained.
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:06 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
it's from Capital by Karl Marx. you should try to understand the system you claim to support.
I think Marx and family would really enjoy Diversity Gardens.
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 7:16 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
it's from Capital by Karl Marx. you should try to understand the system you claim to support.
What's with you...

I guess my technical background, where we write with the most basic language. Don't even write 'the'. Get rid of it.

Where that text, and legal mumbo jumbo in general, in here how to there, wherewithin all in so far. It's mumbo jumbo.

Understanding the content is a different think. Thanks though.
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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 8:05 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
I really don't know where you are going with this. All over the world people pay admission to institutions like museums and conservatories, capitalist and communist countries included. The fact is that our communities wouldn't have these type of facilities without admission fees. As long as allowances are made, by way of free days, or special prices for more disadvantaged groups, then a happy compromise can be attained.
Since you know as “a fact” that things could only be done one way, I will let it go.
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 8:54 PM
ediger ediger is offline
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Am I crazy or was the city talking about creating some sort of pass for low income families that would grant them a certain number of free visits? Obviously these facilities come with some operating expenses that can't all be covered through general tax revenue but I still think they should be accessible to everyone somehow. Even if you granted unlimited free access to low income individuals/families it's not like it really costs anything or takes away from park revenues. If they have to pay, those people simply aren't going.
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:14 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
Since you know as “a fact” that things could only be done one way, I will let it go.
With all due respect, I have presented the reality of the way it is and why.
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:54 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
What's with you...

I guess my technical background, where we write with the most basic language. Don't even write 'the'. Get rid of it.

Where that text, and legal mumbo jumbo in general, in here how to there, wherewithin all in so far. It's mumbo jumbo.

Understanding the content is a different think. Thanks though.
capitalism is mumbo jumbo, it is hard to understand but that's because it doesn't make any sense and is thus early impossible to try to explain
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  #174  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 5:31 AM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
With all due respect, I have presented the reality of the way it is and why.
You wrote: "The fact is that our communities wouldn't have these type of facilities without admission fees". That is simply not true. There are numerous free museum and galleries throughout the world. Most of the major museums in the U.K. such as the British Museum or the V&A, some of the best in the world, do not charge admission, nor does the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. . Closer to home, the very excellent Minneapolis Institute of Art and Como Park Conservatory in Saint Paul as well as the Lincoln Park Conservatory in Chicago are free.

There have been studies which have concluded that free admission does not appreciably increase visitor numbers. Yet on the flip side, admissions in most cases contribute only a small percentage to operating costs. In cases where foot traffic is low, charging admissions may result in the cost of collection and administration exceeding the admissions revenue. In smaller cities where the potential visitor pool is correspondingly small and where the attraction mostly relies on local visitors (ie. Winnipeg) free admissions do encourage much more frequent second and third visits and increase foot traffic in museum restaurants and shops. What the research also showed is that many people prefer to pay an admission as it makes the visiting experience more enjoyable (less crowded). There are other options too, such as a suggested but non-mandatory admission fee (such as the Met in New York used to do for all, though they mislead many patrons by making the suggested fee seem like it was mandatory) or charging extra for special exhibitions. It is not true to suggest that you either pay admissions or you will not have cultural attractions at all.

I do not think it is outrageous for the new Diversity Gardens to charge an admission fee as long as it is not excessive, such as the admission fees for the Zoo are for instance. For two adults with a teenager child and an under 13 to visit the Zoo it's a $73.50 admission. There is no family rate. Add a drink for eachand it becomes a $90 afternoon. Far too expensive for many families. To ensure that everybody has at least some opportunity to visit, the Gardens should have one free day every month and during the summer months the hours on the free day should be extended into the evening. Also the concession fees have to be considerably reduced compared with the adult fee. They should be no more than half the full admission. At the Zoo adults pay $20.50 while a 13 year old pays $17.75 (both plus GST) as do students. Too much for people who have no to very low income. I do not agree with any type of low income pass as it is absurd to expect someone to declare their income to get a reduced admission at a public facility and then there is the question of what income level should be considered "low" in the first place.
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  #175  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 12:56 PM
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rrskylar rrskylar is offline
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
capitalism is mumbo jumbo, it is hard to understand but that's because it doesn't make any sense and is thus early impossible to try to explain
What doesn’t make sense is socialism because it goes against all human nature, read Animal Farm for some more insight!
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 1:45 PM
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esquire esquire is offline
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
You wrote: "The fact is that our communities wouldn't have these type of facilities without admission fees". That is simply not true. There are numerous free museum and galleries throughout the world. Most of the major museums in the U.K. such as the British Museum or the V&A, some of the best in the world, do not charge admission, nor does the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. . Closer to home, the very excellent Minneapolis Institute of Art and Como Park Conservatory in Saint Paul as well as the Lincoln Park Conservatory in Chicago are free.
A lot of the top institutions in the world benefit from major endowments that allow them to maintain free access. I doubt the British Museum relies on local property taxes to make that possible.

Maybe the Assiniboine Park Conservancy can persuade a few heavy hitters to step up with some big cheques... until then, I expect we'll be paying admission fees for a long time to come.
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 3:06 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
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In a perfect world our museums could have free admission like the Smithsonian. You don't have to be a Marxist to see the value in public institutions. But here in the real world the simple truth is there are far bigger priorities. Funding for mental health and addictions is desperately needed. We need affordable housing. Our healthcare and public transit systems are horribly under-funded. First Nations are living in 3rd-world conditions. Seems pretty irresponsible spending more money on the zoo so people can go look at red pandas for free when that cash could be put to better use.
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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 3:19 PM
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optimusREIM optimusREIM is offline
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Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
capitalism is mumbo jumbo, it is hard to understand but that's because it doesn't make any sense and is thus early impossible to try to explain
Capitalism is just an invented word for the natural default state of trade. I'm not sure how it can be mumbo jumbo. If two people want to exchange goods and services, they don't want to be told who they're allowed to trade with or if they're even allowed to trade at all.

Not sure if you're referring to a different capitalism than were seeing. Because it seems pretty simple and easy to understand to me
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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 3:21 PM
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Hecate Hecate is offline
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Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
But here in the real world the simple truth is there are far bigger priorities. Funding for mental health and addictions is desperately needed. We need affordable housing. Our healthcare and public transit systems are horribly under-funded. First Nations are living in 3rd-world conditions. Seems pretty irresponsible spending more money on the zoo so people can go look at red pandas for free when that cash could be put to better use.
I agree, priorities like new high rises for scotiabank and wealthy law firms are more important than funding a PUBLIC zoo. Maybe we can deal with the meth problems by cutting more programs for kids so superintendents and police can make more money.
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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 4:06 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
In a perfect world our museums could have free admission like the Smithsonian. You don't have to be a Marxist to see the value in public institutions. But here in the real world the simple truth is there are far bigger priorities. Funding for mental health and addictions is desperately needed. We need affordable housing. Our healthcare and public transit systems are horribly under-funded. First Nations are living in 3rd-world conditions. Seems pretty irresponsible spending more money on the zoo so people can go look at red pandas for free when that cash could be put to better use.
I guess the sky would fall if we had one free zoo. After all, this is the “real world”.
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