2014 Quebec General Election + General Separatism Discussion

[leftimage]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Respect for Quebec seriously gained. They made the right choice imo.

Hmm, I wonder if many ROC'ers will respond to the election this way. I wonder if some will consider... *gasp* moving back to Quebec !?

[Black Star]

"Vive le Québec"


This is a refreshing result. A united Canada is a strong Canada.


I might have to Cheer for da Habs in the playoffs

[dleung]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Montreal felt like home, though. it was the only canadian city in which the country ever made sense to me, where it ever emerged as more than a series of pragmatic agreements, as a strange living thing full of particularities and not just a sort of platform-for-opportunity or whatever.

it is interesting and natural that others will feel the same about calgary for different reasons. i can't picture it, but i've never even been there. calgarians and westerners seem to like and identify with their region to a great degree, and that's a good thing.

i both know that and think it's interesting and good. i am glad there are so many places in canada that are capable of capturing their inhabitants' imaginations.

Lol, dunno if it's the language barrier that's coming off as extremely patronizing. Quebec's uniqueness is real; the uniqueness in western Canada is imagined... it does fit the overall tone of many posters here "Yes, yes, of course we're all special, but we are more special"

I'm totally unafraid to admit that Quebec is far more interesting culturally than any other place in Canada, but without being passive aggressive about it, and without using that fact to justify unfair economic policy.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Excellent news ! 4 years of stability to come !

Pour un Québec fier et fort dans un Canada uni

En effet. J'ai hate de voir la suite de cette histoire. PKP a tout ce qu'il faut afin de prendre la direction du PQ; c'est clairement la fin de la vieille garde de ce parti. Ses liens avec la presse lui feront plus de mal que de bien. La CAQ a de tres fortes chances de devenir la "deuxieme force" au Quebec et fleurter avec le pouvoir aux prochaines elections.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by dleung

Lol, dunno if it's the language barrier that's coming off as extremely patronizing. Quebec's uniqueness is real; the uniqueness in western Canada is imagined... it does fit the overall tone of many posters here "Yes, yes, of course we're all special, but we are more special"

I'm totally unafraid to admit that Quebec is far more interesting culturally than any other place in Canada, but without being passive aggressive about it, and without using that fact to justify unfair economic policy.

i'm an anglophone, so i doubt it's a language thing. i have just never really been to the west, excepting a 2004 wedding in vancouver, so i don't have a personal grasp on their thing there, on how the country looks from there. as i have already said, my internal conception of "canada" has a lot to do with montreal. i was not trying to imply that the western thing didn't exist or was lesser, just that i don't really know it.

as for equalization, which seems at the root of your economic policy concerns, i have already said i'd be fine to see it go.

anyway, quebec has just elected a majority federalist government, so... it seems like that's where people's heads are there right now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by leftimage

Hmm, I wonder if many ROC'ers will respond to the election this way. I wonder if some will consider... *gasp* moving back to Quebec !?

This is not likely to happen to any significant degree. As said before there are significant demographic factors that prevent any major migration from other parts of Canada to Quebec. Regardless of the colour of Quebec's government. Joe the loans manager in a bank branch will move between Halifax and Kitchener and Red Deer, but not anywhere in Quebec. This will not change and the majority of the population is like this.

The best this will do is slow the outmigration of specific demographics in Quebec: namely anglophones and anglicized allophones.

But once again, this outmigration trend will likely continue to some degree as well. For the same demographic reasons I mentioned above.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

En effet. J'ai hate de voir la suite de cette histoire. PKP a tout ce qu'il faut afin de prendre la direction du PQ; c'est clairement la fin de la vieille garde de ce parti. Ses liens avec la presse lui feront plus de mal que de bien. La CAQ a de tres fortes chances de devenir la "deuxieme force" au Quebec et fleurter avec le pouvoir aux prochaines elections.

Je crois qu'un couronnement de PKP est fort possible. Ou en tout cas il est certes le favori pour en prendre la direction. A la Justin Trudeau.

Je pense que pour la majorité des gens dans le PQ gagner des élections est faire la souveraineté est plus important que toute question idéologique. S'ils croient de PKP est celui qui peut faire la souveraineté, ils le prendront comme chef.

Lucien Bouchard a déjà été leur chef aussi rappelons-nous.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by dleung

Lol, dunno if it's the language barrier that's coming off as extremely patronizing. Quebec's uniqueness is real; the uniqueness in western Canada is imagined... it does fit the overall tone of many posters here "Yes, yes, of course we're all special, but we are more special"

I'm totally unafraid to admit that Quebec is far more interesting culturally than any other place in Canada, but without being passive aggressive about it, and without using that fact to justify unfair economic policy.

I understand both of your points of view. It can be hard to appreciate relatively recent boom towns when your frame of reference for urban life is an established city with a long enough history to create its own strong identity. It makes the other cities seem more interchangeable. It seems easier to move from Calgary to, say, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Regina, Minneapolis, etc.; than from Montreal to anywhere else in the world. It feels like one would give up less moving from Calgary to Edmonton than they would moving from, say, St. John's to Saint John.

But on the other hand, I've seen hints of how attached Calgarians are to their city in particular. The instance that really stayed with me is a line in the song from a Calgary promotional video than Ayreonaut shared: "It's where I dream; it's where that dream has got some hope of coming true." That, to me, is a powerful attraction and something outsiders can sense about the city when they visit. The ambition and opportunity available in Calgary fascinate me.

I just hope everyone has a love affair with their city. It's so rewarding to feel a part of the bricks and mortar of where you live; to feel the city shaped your personality, interests, and ambitions. And, most importantly, to feel you couldn't have gotten that anywhere else; to feel grateful and lucky and an incredible sense of belonging. None of that is necessarily as reliant on old, established culture as we in the East tend to think.

[kool maudit]

i moved from quebec to europe (pristina since mid-2012, copenhagen in a month), and plan to stay. my curiosity goes in the direction of more history, older cities, more complications, more established norms — that's what i am interested in. i am aware that there are many people who would go the other way along that axis and toward newer, less settled, more open-ended places (doug is always celebrating this about calgary)... it's a valid choice, but it's not how i am, and so it will always seem a bit foreign to me (just as my choices would seem foreign to fans of the newer places).

[kool maudit]

this was my old street in montreal (ste-helene... i was at the southern end, coin le moyne):



i am looking at apartments around here right now (vesterbro, copenhagen):







the "old city" thing is really very important to me... it's not just a slight preference or something, it's pretty central. ultimately, my preferences are going to come out in my posts, even as i know that others have others.

[north 42]

Great news!

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i moved from quebec to europe (pristina since mid-2012, copenhagen in a month), and plan to stay. my curiosity goes in the direction of more history, older cities, more complications, more established norms — that's what i am interested in. i am aware that there are many people who would go the other way along that axis and toward newer, less settled, more open-ended places (doug is always celebrating this about calgary)... it's a valid choice, but it's not how i am, and so it will always seem a bit foreign to me (just as my choices would seem foreign to fans of the newer places).

For someone with your preferences, and I share them for the most part, all this is exacerbated by the fact Canada is especially bad at newer places (again, for someone with your preferences).

If you're in a bad mood, you can convince yourself half the country feels like a work camp, where people's entire existence is based around earning a paycheque and not asking themselves many deep questions. It can be easy to visit areas of this country and feel like you're at a deserted strip mall, without any true urban experience. There's often an overwhelming sense the community is hollow somehow.

Dublin is mostly new and easily one of the most North American-style cities in Europe, and it probably isn't your cup of tea either, but it's still far superior to the ways we're building Canada's cities. That's my minimum. I could easily live in Nelson, but I worry the new age culture would tire me; I prefer something a little more salt of the earth, a little more established - something witty, vulgar, and comical as opposed to serious. I could easily live in Banff, but I imagine it would come to feel like a hospital ward, completely sanitized with no organic, ingrained arts and culture - where families gather after dinner and don't have to fight about who is going to play which instrument or read which short. I could easily live in Mount Pearl, but I'd go crazy from that generic, suburban nothingness that - despite having a strong culture - offers no visual proof of its existence.

I need the old, established... a city that wraps around you.

An aside: Enjoy Copenhagen! So many bikes, all the time.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by leftimage

Hmm, I wonder if many ROC'ers will respond to the election this way. I wonder if some will consider... *gasp* moving back to Quebec !?

Because of this election result? Very unlikely. At most, a few who might have been inclined to depart with a different result will now stay.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

one photo says it all


I bet it's the last time they'll use that word on a bus

Wow, what a great image. Captures the essence of the outcome better than anything else could.

I feel sorry for Mme Marois (although I am delighted with the outcome), as some of the vultures in her party were openly angling for her job even before she had delivered her final public speech as PQ leader. It must be very hard to have finally climbed to the top after 35 years in politics, only to have it all crumble so suddenly. But if truth be told, she made her bed when she called the election and recruited PKP.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Because of this election result? Very unlikely. At most, a few who might have been inclined to depart with a different result will now stay.

Yeah, the sighs of relief from my anglo/allo (And quite a few franco) friends/family back in Quebec was almost audible without use of a telephone.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Je crois qu'un couronnement de PKP est fort possible. Ou en tout cas il est certes le favori pour en prendre la direction. A la Justin Trudeau.

Je pense que pour la majorité des gens dans le PQ gagner des élections est faire la souveraineté est plus important que toute question idéologique. S'ils croient de PKP est celui qui peut faire la souveraineté, ils le prendront comme chef.

Lucien Bouchard a déjà été leur chef aussi rappelons-nous.

Would you then see PKP at the head of the PQ as consolidating the secessionist movement into left and right ideological camps, with the QS (or a more moderate successor) on the other side? Or not necessarily?

[SignalHillHiker]

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

A last, final prediction:

ThreeHundredEight.com.

national post.

So the Liberals and CAQ (especially the latter) did better than forecast, and the PQ, much worse (just one seat shy of the statistical low point of the 95% confidence interval). I think the future is bright for the CAQ. Although they court the same vote as the erstwhile ADQ, I feel that Francois Legault is much more capable/impressive than Mario Dumont. Quebec solidaire has a bright future, I think, should PKP take the helm of the PQ.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Correct me if I'm reading it wrong somehow, but that also seems to indicate that Quebec had by far the worst net migration. Fewer out-migrants, percentage-wise, than many places, but very poor in-migration as well. Still bad demographically speaking.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

national post.

So the Liberals and CAQ (especially the latter) did better than forecast, and the PQ, much worse (just one seat shy of the statistical low point of the 95% confidence interval). I think the future is bright for the CAQ. Although they court the same vote as the erstwhile ADQ, I feel that Francois Legault is much more capable/impressive than Mario Dumont. Quebec solidaire has a bright future, I think, should PKP take the helm of the PQ.

As I just wrote in the Quebec section, Québec solidaire is an interesting creature in that it is pro-sovereignty and also pro-protection of French, and yet has drawn way more anglophones and allophones than the PQ ever did, even during its much more social-democratic periods.

[kool maudit]

a lot of "new" montreal anglophones (esp. in mercier) are more leftist than they are federalist.