OC Transpo

[TransitZilla]

OC Transpo to launch open payment (Visa, MC, Apple Pay & Google Pay) on buses and O-Train in 2021: https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...236652547?s=20

[YOWflier]

It's about time.

[J.OT13]

That's awesome. Good on OC Transpo for getting this done.

[zzptichka]

Metrolinx lawyers already drafting a lawsuit I bet.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

OC Transpo to launch open payment (Visa, MC, Apple Pay & Google Pay) on buses and O-Train in 2021: https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...236652547?s=20

I've said for a while that OC buying their own fare-payment equipment was a smart move. S&B is currently working on re-programming all of the Bus Fare Transaction Processors so they will run locally, rather than through PRESTO. Presto then runs as an application on top of the local FareGo back-end, which OC already uses to enable employee, retiree, accessibility, contractor and other access cards. Adding open payments at the local level is an off-the-shelf solution with FareGo, avoiding PRESTO entirely and giving OC control over the entire payment system and its costs except for PRESTO.

This compares to the TTC, which uses identical equipment but doesn't own it, and is therefore stuck with whatever Metrolinx has to offer at the price they set.

The only issue with open payments is that I can't see them being STO compatible.

[J.OT13]

I hope OC can eventually dump Presto completely adopt its own (or STO's) transit card. Just before the pandemic, I added $80 to my Presto. It now sits in Metrolinx's bank account, gathering interest to support TO area transit instead of contributing help to my local transit agency during a crisis.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I hope OC can eventually dump Presto completely adopt its own (or STO's) transit card. Just before the pandemic, I added $80 to my Presto. It now sits in Metrolinx's bank account, gathering interest to support TO area transit instead of contributing help to my local transit agency during a crisis.

Given today's low interest rates, I doubt that the interest that accrues on wallet balances is even enough to pay Accenture et al for monthly system support costs.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I hope OC can eventually dump Presto completely adopt its own (or STO's) transit card. Just before the pandemic, I added $80 to my Presto. It now sits in Metrolinx's bank account, gathering interest to support TO area transit instead of contributing help to my local transit agency during a crisis.

I actually like the flexibility of being able to use Presto on GO and the TTC.

[SkeggsEggs]

It certainly is nice when I got to Toronto to visit my sister. I wish KW used Presto for when I go to visit friends there. Though I am only an infrequent Transit user so load no more than $20 at a time.

[Brannwagon]

Originally Posted by phil235

I actually like the flexibility of being able to use Presto on GO and the TTC.

Same. I travel to KW often and love how I can get there using a mix of OC Transpo, TTC, and GO all on the same transit card (apart from my VIA ticket, which is on my phone).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

I actually like the flexibility of being able to use Presto on GO and the TTC.

Nothing stopping you from doing that if OC Transpo were to stop supporting Presto. You would just have to use a different card while in Ottawa. A better option would be for GO and the TTC to support contactless payment to make it easier for any visitor.

The reality is I see it as being a very slow migration. Unless Metrolinx tries to gouge Ottawa again when the contract comes up for renewal, there is no reason not to continue to support Presto as an option for cash payment. It wouldn't surprise me though if they move to STO's Multi card (or develop their own) for monthly passes. Presto would only be there for cash payment option, for those who wish to use it.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Nothing stopping you from doing that if OC Transpo were to stop supporting Presto. You would just have to use a different card while in Ottawa. A better option would be for GO and the TTC to support contactless payment to make it easier for any visitor.

The reality is I see it as being a very slow migration. Unless Metrolinx tries to gouge Ottawa again when the contract comes up for renewal, there is no reason not to continue to support Presto as an option for cash payment. It wouldn't surprise me though if they move to STO's Multi card (or develop their own) for monthly passes. Presto would only be there for cash payment option, for those who wish to use it.

True. I just prefer the simplicity of the single card, and I prefer using a fare card for small charges. I think anyone who has been hit by credit card fraud likes the idea of a card where the maximum loss is $50 or whatever it is set at.

[DEWLine]

Not Interac?

Seriously, they leave out Interac?

[DarkArconio]

If interac is out, it's likely because its fixed fee model doesn't work for low-value transactions.

[DEWLine]

Well, that's going to be a problem for some of us, then.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Not Interac?

Seriously, they leave out Interac?

I suppose you could use a debit card via Apple Pay or Google Pay. Or continue to use Presto.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DarkArconio

If interac is out, it's likely based its fixed fee model doesn't work for low-value transactions.

Same in Vancouver, the first city to implement open-payments.

https://www.translink.ca/About-Us/Me...20its%20system.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Not Interac?

Seriously, they leave out Interac?

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I suppose you could use a debit card via Apple Pay or Google Pay. Or continue to use Presto.

I'm not confident that Interac will work withe Apple/Google Pay. Both of those systems effectively just pretend to be the card they're emulating, they don't run the card across a different payment network.

The issue with debit in general is that it requires real-time verification. Though rare nowadays, credit cards can be asynchronous since they rely on the user's credit, so the merchant can complete the transaction even without verification that the cardholder has sufficient credit available. This is the same reason that airlines and VIA don't accept debit for on-board transactions.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm not confident that Interac will work withe Apple/Google Pay. Both of those systems effectively just pretend to be the card they're emulating, they don't run the card across a different payment network.

I am not sure about Google Pay, but Apple Pay does not work that way. It works with your financial institution to create a unique token that is tied to your account, not your your card (I believe the token changes for each transaction as well, to further reduce fraud). Because it uses bio-metric identity confirmation, the usual transaction limits for contactless payments are waved.

The issue with debit in general is that it requires real-time verification. Though rare nowadays, credit cards can be asynchronous since they rely on the user's credit, so the merchant can complete the transaction even without verification that the cardholder has sufficient credit available. This is the same reason that airlines and VIA don't accept debit for on-board transactions.

That is a valid point regardless, and it may still prevent debit from being used, unless your phone can confirm the account balance.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I've said for a while that OC buying their own fare-payment equipment was a smart move. S&B is currently working on re-programming all of the Bus Fare Transaction Processors so they will run locally, rather than through PRESTO. Presto then runs as an application on top of the local FareGo back-end, which OC already uses to enable employee, retiree, accessibility, contractor and other access cards. Adding open payments at the local level is an off-the-shelf solution with FareGo, avoiding PRESTO entirely and giving OC control over the entire payment system and its costs except for PRESTO.

This compares to the TTC, which uses identical equipment but doesn't own it, and is therefore stuck with whatever Metrolinx has to offer at the price they set.

The only issue with open payments is that I can't see them being STO compatible.

Why do you say that? Couldn't support for STO Multi cards also be added as a separate application on top of the local FareGo back-end. They might even be able to get access to its e-wallet (with an appropriate agreement with STO) since OC Transpo has control over the back-end.