Investors Group Field | Winnipeg

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Was that their decision or had David Asper decided that for them as well! (kind of a good will gesture after getting his cheque for the great design and location he chose)

It was asper's choice. It is why it never went out for an rfp. Same as for the contractor. It was a private building at the time. Asper was free to hire whoever he wanted. Design was complete when the province took it over. He and the architect were paid out for their work. 5 million?.... I'm not sure how asper is avoiding all of this actually. He alone was the client during the design process, not the bombers not the government. He made the decisions.

The timelines and millions already spent dictated that the team continue when it became a public building.

[esquire]

It's kind of wild to think that David Asper was calling the shots on the Bomber stadium like he was Jerry Jones only to have the province basically step in near the end of the design process and take it over.

I wonder how the project would have turned out differently had it been built by government from start to finish? (Frankly I'm not certain that it would have materialized at all... Asper deserves some credit for at least getting the ball rolling on this, because otherwise the Bombers might still be playing in a revitalized, i.e., repainted, CanadInns Stadium.)

[ba_split]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's kind of wild to think that David Asper was calling the shots on the Bomber stadium like he was Jerry Jones only to have the province basically step in near the end of the design process and take it over.

I wonder how the project would have turned out differently had it been built by government from start to finish? (Frankly I'm not certain that it would have materialized at all... Asper deserves some credit for at least getting the ball rolling on this, because otherwise the Bombers might still be playing in a revitalized, i.e., repainted, CanadInns Stadium.)

I would've like to see the project done with Asper running the show.
With him having to hold the bag on all the problems we have now.

Would be interesting how it wouldve unfolded.

[esquire]

I was at IGF last night for the STH rules session with the league head of officiating... I have to say, it takes my breath away whenever I walk through the south entrance of the stadium and see the field. For all the problems that the parties and their lawyers have to work out, it is still one spectacular venue.

[The Unknown Poster]

Im not anti-Asper. I wonder where we would be had he not pushed so hard for the Stadium and chased his dream of owning the team.

But once it became clear he was unable to deliver and the government stepped in, why wasnt their a review of the design and details? Not that I trust the government, but this was a lot of money. If it was me, I'd have brought in an expert consultant to go through the details. It couldnt have taken that long to do.

And in the end, if they needed to bring on a sports facility design company to tweak it (or more), so be it. I think the media drove a lot of the issues but when the people giving facts were either lying or being extremely optimistic, thats what happens. Had the government stepped up and said "look, it's going to cost $60 million more and take 1.5 years longer but this is public money and the public deserves to have their investment properly vetted and a building that will be iconic for decades to come", would we have complained?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Im not anti-Asper. I wonder where we would be had he not pushed so hard for the Stadium and chased his dream of owning the team.

But once it became clear he was unable to deliver and the government stepped in, why wasnt their a review of the design and details? Not that I trust the government, but this was a lot of money. If it was me, I'd have brought in an expert consultant to go through the details. It couldnt have taken that long to do.

And in the end, if they needed to bring on a sports facility design company to tweak it (or more), so be it. I think the media drove a lot of the issues but when the people giving facts were either lying or being extremely optimistic, thats what happens. Had the government stepped up and said "look, it's going to cost $60 million more and take 1.5 years longer but this is public money and the public deserves to have their investment properly vetted and a building that will be iconic for decades to come", would we have complained?

Yeah, I think you nailed it. There is nothing to suggest that Asper did not approach this in good faith given his involvement over the years and his obvious longstanding passion for the Bombers.

But yes... the character of the project changed significantly when Asper basically stepped out and handed off the ball to Triple B which let's face it, is basically the Province with some bit contributions from the City. (The Bombers are supposed to pay it all back, but if something happens and it all falls apart, the Province is going to be on the hook.)

At that point it seemed like everyone involved put the pedal to the metal to keep the project going after a bit of a lull where it looked like things were in jeopardy. In hindsight, it might have made sense to rethink the project... although that said, knowing the way things are built around here, I wonder if we wouldn't have ended up with something resembling THF in Hamilton instead of the existing product. There has been a lot of stadium construction activity in the CFL over the last 5 years, so it's easy to lose sight of the fact that IGF would have been considered spectacularly audacious by CFL standards even a decade ago... hell, even now IGF is better than all the eastern division stadiums by an order of magnitude. I doubt government would have aimed as high as Asper did, so maybe it's just as well they kept his initial design concept.

[The Unknown Poster]

^^^ Very true. We should discuss the issues. But never lose sight of the fact we have a gorgeous world class facility that far exceeds what was considered standard not very long ago.

[CoryB]

Did anyone else notice last night all the concession signs had been stripped off the walls? Anyone know why that happened?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Did anyone else notice last night all the concession signs had been stripped off the walls? Anyone know why that happened?

Didn't look too closely, but it seemed like there were new walls for the concessions... not sure if they moved them in or out a bit, or if they just put drywall over the brick, or what... but yeah, it looked different. Did you notice any other changes?

[BKB]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Did anyone else notice last night all the concession signs had been stripped off the walls? Anyone know why that happened?

World Cup of soccer requirement.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by BKB

World Cup of soccer requirement.

Seriously? Good grief... Sepp Blatter demands that we cover up the Rum Hut!

[cllew]

Seriously, if your not on the sponsor list your sign comes of the venue. Same thing happens in music concerts where the soft drink or beer signs will be removed if the tour is being sponsored by a different brand.

I have even heard that the concessions have to change the brand they dispense during the concert event if the band is a big enough draw for the venue.

[esquire]

^ Most of the concession wall signs are purely decorative and just refer to generic things like "First Down Grill"... I think it's only a small number of concessions that advertise specific brands on the wall, like the Appleton Rum Hut, the Skyy Vodka Bar, Shawarma Khan and Clay Oven.

It really looked like new walls, though, and not just covered up or removed decals. It seemed like they had actually physically changed the concessions and either moved them in or out (couldn't quite tell which one it was).

[CoryB]

It doesn't make sense that it is World Cup related as purely local brands (Clay Oven, Shawarma Khan) wouldn't have competitors.

To me it looked like they had applied a hard board, likely some form of insulation, on the outside walls of the concourse including the concessions. After that was done it looked like they were then applying a corrugated siding of some sort on top. If this is what was actually happening that would explain why the signage was all removed.

Also I don't think the stands themselves moved at all. It is a little hard to tell though having been away from the facility for six months. If there were any changes like that it is possible a couple new, permanent, enclosed stalls were added on the east side concourse.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by ba_split

I would've like to see the project done with Asper running the show.
With him having to hold the bag on all the problems we have now.

Would be interesting how it wouldve unfolded.

It wouldn't have been anywhere near complete before he would have run out of money. He was borrowing money against two retail developments that still haven't come close to completion. That's why the province stepped in when they did. They would have loved to pass the buck to someone like Asper.

Only difference is he would have went cap in hand to the province with a stadium partially built instead of having BBB Stadium and the Bombers being able to get loans to handle overruns, some of them guaranteed by the province.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, I think you nailed it. There is nothing to suggest that Asper did not approach this in good faith given his involvement over the years and his obvious longstanding passion for the Bombers.

But yes... the character of the project changed significantly when Asper basically stepped out and handed off the ball to Triple B which let's face it, is basically the Province with some bit contributions from the City. (The Bombers are supposed to pay it all back, but if something happens and it all falls apart, the Province is going to be on the hook.)

At that point it seemed like everyone involved put the pedal to the metal to keep the project going after a bit of a lull where it looked like things were in jeopardy. In hindsight, it might have made sense to rethink the project... although that said, knowing the way things are built around here, I wonder if we wouldn't have ended up with something resembling THF in Hamilton instead of the existing product. There has been a lot of stadium construction activity in the CFL over the last 5 years, so it's easy to lose sight of the fact that IGF would have been considered spectacularly audacious by CFL standards even a decade ago... hell, even now IGF is better than all the eastern division stadiums by an order of magnitude. I doubt government would have aimed as high as Asper did, so maybe it's just as well they kept his initial design concept.

This is another one where oversight was non-existent. Anyone with half a brain and a solar powered calculator could see that both of Asper's plans were not feasible as proposed. Too good to be true. Province jumped on board and probably knew they'd have to end up footing the bill. The fact that they are still pretending that the Bombers will be able to service the debt from their operations is a joke. Wait till we pay $50 million in 20 years to renovate the place while we're still paying for the initial build.

This debacle speaks to the oversight needed, even with private proposals, if there is any public involvement at all. This is why I support what Bowman is saying with "True North Square." We need details, and guarantees from the private interests involved so that we aren't left holding the bag.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Most of the concession wall signs are purely decorative and just refer to generic things like "First Down Grill"... I think it's only a small number of concessions that advertise specific brands on the wall, like the Appleton Rum Hut, the Skyy Vodka Bar, Shawarma Khan and Clay Oven.

It really looked like new walls, though, and not just covered up or removed decals. It seemed like they had actually physically changed the concessions and either moved them in or out (couldn't quite tell which one it was).

its FIFA running the show and they have real strange rules. In 2006 they forced Dutch fans to strip to their undies, because they were wearing orange Leeuwenhosen given out by a company that was not an official sponsor of the 2006 world cup.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by BKB

World Cup of soccer requirement.

the stickers on every one of the 35000 cup holders need to be covered up, no joke. these are all world cup requirements.

[The Unknown Poster]

I know they were re-doing cladding in the concourse or something because my company had to go in there and remove some equipment that was in the way (ie. hanging on the wall).

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It doesn't make sense that it is World Cup related as purely local brands (Clay Oven, Shawarma Khan) wouldn't have competitors.

FIFA doesn't care. They'll have federal laws changed to allow the sale of alcohol in venues (See: Brazil) if they need to.