Waterloo Region Development Thread

rapid_business · #1 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 5:31 PM**

*** on hold for a development summary post in the near future ***

rapid_business · #2 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 5:32 PM**

As suggested here, I decided to create a day-to-day thread where we can talk about development in the region. This won't be a 'catch-all' as we can and should still update the individual project threads, but this will act as a regular discussion thread otherwise.

I've make a placer for the first post spot where we can have a project run-down list, and links to various individual project threads. That will take awhile to do, so I'll get to it some time in the future when I have some time.

Glad to start a regular discussion about development in the region again here on SSP!

rapid_business · #3 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 5:39 PM**

So that being said, let's start things off.

RED Condos got approval at council last night. I love the design, massing and building format. I'm really impressed with Momentum Developments as of late, and can't wait to see what else they have in store in the future. This is exactly the developer the region needs more of.

I do have to say I am disappointed with their unit sizes and layouts though for RED. 1 Bdrms at 1100 sq. ft.? I mean I know we aren't at Toronto per sq. ft. construction prices, but units of that size will definitely price out a larger part of the young-proffesional market. Yes there are a couple smaller 1 bdrms, but there is no reason why 2 bdrm units shouldn't be starting at 850 sq. ft. I know it likely has to do with a deep building and not a lot of allocation for window space for bedrooms, or even prohibited by U/G parking requirements and the costs that comes with that. Either way, there is room for improvement here, and I think it might show in their sales numbers initially.

CCF · #4 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 5:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

I do have to say I am disappointed with their unit sizes and layouts though for RED. 1 Bdrms at 1100 sq. ft.? I mean I know we aren't at Toronto per sq. ft. construction prices, but units of that size will definitely price out a larger part of the young-proffesional market.

I'm finding that this is a similar phenomenon that is occurring in a number of mid-sized Canadian cities. To me developers are missing the mark on the intended demographic. Young professionals, who are most likely to be interested in this type of living, cannot afford $500,000+ mortgages.

I think there's a real opportunity for someone out there to go with smaller, basic units at an affordable price ($200,000+).

rapid_business · #5 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 7:14 PM**

Yes and no. From a developer proforma perspective, the higher profit lies in larger units. You can charge the same sq. ft. pricing, but the costs are substantially less. Consider the reduced number of bathrooms, kitchens, U/G parking spaces, etc. So if you have a condo tower that is a gross total habitable area of 100,000 sq ft. for example, the greater profit margin lies in selling 100 - 1000 sq. ft. units over something like 150 - 750 sq. ft. units. Rough math I know, but that is gist of it.

However, when all you see is profit, you fail sometimes to look at market demands. KW only has so large an absorption rate for 1 bdrm units at $400k+. And that is where having a range of more affordable, smaller units is. Or off set it with a couple penthouse suites to make up the smaller profit margins on the studio and sub 700 sq. ft. 1 bdrm. units.

CCF · #6 Posted **Aug 16, 2011, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

Yes and no. From a developer proforma perspective, the higher profit lies in larger units. You can charge the same sq. ft. pricing, but the costs are substantially less. Consider the reduced number of bathrooms, kitchens, U/G parking spaces, etc. So if you have a condo tower that is a gross total habitable area of 100,000 sq ft. for example, the greater profit margin lies in selling 100 - 1000 sq. ft. units over something like 150 - 750 sq. ft. units. Rough math I know, but that is gist of it.

However, when all you see is profit, you fail sometimes to look at market demands. KW only has so large an absorption rate for 1 bdrm units at $400k+. And that is where having a range of more affordable, smaller units is. Or off set it with a couple penthouse suites to make up the smaller profit margins on the studio and sub 700 sq. ft. 1 bdrm. units.

Yes, of course the profit margin is higher on larger units, but if you aren't able to move these units, then what good is that?

A developer may see a reduced profit margin on smaller, more afordable units, but I guarentee they sell at a quicker pace.

rapid_business · #7 Posted **Aug 17, 2011, 9:18 PM**

/\ Sure thing.

Has anyone seen any renderings of what is going up at Albert & University? I assume more student housing, but I was crossing my fingers for something innovation and, knock on wood, retail integration.

Lugnut · #8 Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 4:22 PM**

Not development specific but I saw this blog post and thought the people here would be interested to read it. http://apt519.wordpress.com/2011/09/...iversity-town/

Kind of interesting to think about

rapid_business · #9 Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 5:00 PM**

I am going to disagree with his/her post. Sure, aspects of Uptown and the neighbourhoods surrounding the Uni's, but that is it. The rest of the city proper is like every other southern Ontario suburban city. There will be a balancing in terms of higher density non-student housing, but it will be at the south end of Uptown as to distance itself from student-focused development north of Bridgeport.

Lugnut · #10 Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 1:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

I am going to disagree with his/her post. Sure, aspects of Uptown and the neighbourhoods surrounding the Uni's, but that is it. The rest of the city proper is like every other southern Ontario suburban city. There will be a balancing in terms of higher density non-student housing, but it will be at the south end of Uptown as to distance itself from student-focused development north of Bridgeport.

But do you not think that everything north of bridgeport is TOO focused on students?

rapid_business · #11 Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 4:19 PM**

Yes, but what are you going to do? The market directs the investment, and the zoning allows it. I don't like it, and I think the quality of the projects are absolute sh*t for the most part, but that is the reality we are faced with.

Lugnut · #12 Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 1:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

Yes, but what are you going to do? The market directs the investment, and the zoning allows it. I don't like it, and I think the quality of the projects are absolute sh*t for the most part, but that is the reality we are faced with.

absolute shit is an understatement haha.

I blame the City of Waterloo and their planners. They've dragged their feet for so long with this new official plan, its becoming a joke.

rapid_business · #13 Posted **Dec 13, 2011, 3:50 PM**

Here is an interesting proposal for Hickory St, just off King St. Location and language of the website implies owned student residences, likely co-managed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis007

http://sagecondos.ca/

Sage Condos, 8 Hickory Street, Waterloo, Ontario

Chadillaccc · #14 Posted **Mar 15, 2012, 6:12 AM**

Seriously... No one has commented in any thread in the Waterloo section since February fourth (I was the one who commented Feb. 4) but yet Waterloo has a thread... and Windsor's construction page gets multiple posts per day on a consistent basis... yet they don't have their own thread?

Lame.

Ontario1 · #15 Posted **Mar 22, 2012, 1:36 AM**

http://rapidtransit.region.waterloo....ct-report.html

Rapid Transit project in the Region is moving ahead.

myfaceisonfire · #16 Posted **Apr 9, 2012, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Seriously... No one has commented in any thread in the Waterloo section since February fourth (I was the one who commented Feb. 4) but yet Waterloo has a thread... and Windsor's construction page gets multiple posts per day on a consistent basis... yet they don't have their own thread?

Lame.

Most people have vacated this site in favour of one which I can't hyperlink to for some reason and I don't really care to keep wrestling with it.

kwoldtimer · #17 Posted **Apr 30, 2012, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by myfaceisonfire

Most people have vacated this site in favour of one which I can't hyperlink to for some reason and I don't really care to keep wrestling with it.

Try this link http://www..com/

Edit: Strange - the link changes when I insert it. What I was trying to send was www..com

Edit redux: Well that is just annoying. I have no trouble connecting to , but can't send out the correct link.

Edit 'cause the penny just dropped - I guess it is not permitted to give the name of the relevant site in this forum.

rapid_business · #18 Posted **May 1, 2012, 1:12 AM**

/\ That would be correct.

kwoldtimer · #19 Posted **May 4, 2012, 1:34 AM**

Well, I certainly recommend it to anyone interested. It is a good waterloo forum. wonderful even.

Lugnut · #20 Posted **Jun 27, 2014, 8:01 PM**

A couple of very promising condo projects are happening along Victoria St downtown Kitchener. One at King st West and one a few blocks down.

One Victoria has already broken ground and is now rising above ground.

Image from: http://www.momentumdevelopments.ca/