Barrel Yards | 25 floors | 1006 units | revised proposal

[DHLawrence]

It's being developed by the GSP Group, but there isn't any info on their web site about leasing just yet. A bit early for that.

[BusyBerliner]

GSP Group is actually the planning firm acting on behalf of the developer to get the necessary approvals. The developer is London based Auburn Developments Inc. (www.auburndev.com)

[Brenden]

Originally Posted by BusyBerliner

GSP Group is actually the planning firm acting on behalf of the developer to get the necessary approvals. The developer is London based Auburn Developments Inc. (www.auburndev.com)

Hmm they are the guys behind the Arrow Lofts... Thats a bit unnerving thats taking for ever and I heard they are having major financial problems.

[metropolis]

Originally Posted by Brenden

Hmm they are the guys behind the Arrow Lofts... Thats a bit unnerving thats taking for ever and I heard they are having major financial problems.

That's an interesting tidbit.

Anytime a firm goes into financial straits it means their cash flow is becoming severely limited. The less cash flow the company has the less likely lenders are willing to loan them money. Basically its very easy to get into a downwards spiral when you are in a situation such as this because your need for new funding increases but the banks are lending you money at an exorbitant rate or not willing to lend to you at all.

This may also explain why Arrow progress is virtually idle. They started this project thinking new financing would allow them to move ahead but their resources have been tied up and progress of everything they do will resultantly move at a snail's pace.

How reliable is this info you've heard Brenden? If this is reliable (and this has the delays making sense) the Westin proposal for Uptown has just been put on the front burner in my mind.

[Brenden]

Originally Posted by metropolis

How reliable is this info you've heard Brenden? If this is reliable (and this has the delays making sense) the Westin proposal for Uptown has just been put on the front burner in my mind.

I heard it from someone in the construction industry (he owns a large flooring company) but he is also know for stretching the truth. Wasn't there a environmental problem there? that would cost a lot to fix.

[ForestryW]

Well I can't say anything for the Auburn developments in K-W but they have a number of developments in London that are progressing nicely. Hopefully when the major London developments are finished (including The Harriston in downtown) the company will see a new influx of cash. If not, I wouldn't keep my hopes up for Barrel Yards unless another company picks up the proposal.

Edit: When I say they are progressing nicely I mean they are progressing as normal (or what I perceive to be normal). They're not idle but they are progressing slowly and carefully as is typical for London. But for all I know they could be encountering rough economic terrain just like the K-W developments.

[metropolis]

There are signs up along Father David Bauer saying it will be closed starting Wednesday this week for 6 weeks. Could this actually be part of the long awaited street improvements the builder was to complete as part of this project getting off the ground finally?

[GreatTallNorth2]

The Harriston tower (23 stories) in downtown London was topped out and the crane was removed a while ago, but it seems like Auburn has done little on this project since. It almost looks like it has been stalled. I have not heard anything here regarding financial problems with Auburn, but I am wondering why they haven't completed this tower.

[myfaceisonfire]

Frankly if we're going to end up with a bunch of stucco faced cookie cutter apartment buildings like this:



then I could care less if the Barrel Yards proceeds. I've lost almost all faith in Auburn's ability to see a project through to the end and even when they do I'm not all that impressed by the end-result.

This land is not only the last major chunk of land left uptown but in all of Waterloo. I want to see it used for a major iconic development. The density is nice and all but that's not the only factor in play here. I think with all of the other developments underway in Waterloo the timing has really passed Auburn by. The economy is sinking and Waterloo has a sudden influx of condos and apartments. I'm sure a good chunk of the Bauer lofts and the units in the 42 were scooped up by investors looking to flip them over for a quick profit.

I'm also entirely 100% behind the Westin proposal even if it further jeopardizes this project. It's just what this city needs and in the perfect location.

[aplz]

Unfortunately it's Auburn, it WILL be ugly, cookie cutter stucco buildings. It's a quick buck.

[BusyBerliner]

Yup, thats pretty much exactly what they've proposed for both Waterloo and Kitchener. They love their mediocre stucco cubes.

[DHLawrence]

Better a stucco cube than a lot sitting empty for another twenty years, I say.

[Waterlooian4Life]

Originally Posted by DHLawrence

Better a stucco cube than a lot sitting empty for another twenty years, I say.

Yea I agree with that one.

An I have to say they could be a whole lot worse look at some of the apartments built back in the 70's 80's alon say University Ave at Glen Ridge mall. These are much better then anything built before.

Also remember the image that BusyBerliner posted is not the true proposal. the current proposal is on the first page of this thread. The Hotel buildings, the condo buildings and the office buildings look alot different in the current proposal.

Originally Posted by myfaceisonfire

I've lost almost all faith in Auburn's ability to see a project through to the end and even when they do I'm not all that impressed by the end-result.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one. Hopefully the Auburn proposal tanks and Andrin quickly picks up the slack. Judging from the Kaufman Lofts and the Centre Block proposal, they know how to build a proper downtown development. And whoever's doing Bauer, that's a nice project too.

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by DHLawrence

Better a stucco cube than a lot sitting empty for another twenty years, I say.

I disagree. An empty lot is a blank canvas full of potential. A stucco cube is a towering monument to mediocrity that will adorn your city for 50+ years. I've seen enough sh*t project go ahead in KW to last a life time. I can wait a couple years on this one...

[BusyBerliner]

Originally Posted by Waterlooian4Life

Also remember the image that BusyBerliner posted is not the true proposal. the current proposal is on the first page of this thread. The Hotel buildings, the condo buildings and the office buildings look alot different in the current proposal.

You're right and thanks for pointing that out (I forgot that the proposal had changed – they haven’t updated their website). Most of the buildings though are still Auburn's seemingly standard cubes, with three-storey brick base, topped with multi-coloured stucco, and a bit of a step-back at the top.

They are by no means the most horrid buildings I could imagine, but I've come to expect more. Unfortunately though, based on the uses and layout proposed, it will be a pretty dull area regardless of how uninspired the architecture may be.

[Brenden]

in the Commercial Investors book t has a listing for the barrel yards:
-12 storey office building of 160,000 sq ft at $20.00/sq ft
-20,000 sq ft retail building at $30.00/sq ft
-available Summer 2010
-Ideally situated in Uptown Waterloo at corner of Father David Bauer Drive and Erb street West

[WatGuy]

Originally Posted by onishenko

I disagree. An empty lot is a blank canvas full of potential. A stucco cube is a towering monument to mediocrity that will adorn your city for 50+ years. I've seen enough sh*t project go ahead in KW to last a life time. I can wait a couple years on this one...

Hello all - I'm a new poster to this forum. I'm not tied to the real estate industry in any way but I do care a lot about Waterloo's potential and image.

As soon as I saw the plans for the Barrel Yards I approached local councillors I know about my concerns, which reflect those of onishenko and others - these stucco monuments may wreck our rising skyline and uptown for over 50 years.

Recent student projects have adopted the stucco approach and some of them are even done well, but this is supposed to be the crown jewel of Waterloo's uptown. Waterloo is doing its best to be world class in intellectual pursuits...why should our architecture lag so much?

I spend a lot of time in Vancouver and am very impressed by their efforts to create/approve/build condos that are attractive and reflective of it being a wealthy, world-class city. Waterloo is a wealthy city too and should not suffer from mediocrity needlessly. I don't think cost will be too much of an object (see the brisk sales for Bauer, the42, Seagrams, and Waterpark Place back in the day!).

Unfortunately, the city councillors claim there is not much they can do, other than pass along my comments to Auburn.

What, if anything, can be done to stop this from happening, or forcing Auburn back to the drawing board?

Waterloo deserves so much better.

[rapid_business]

Sometimes it's market demand and other good projects that sell well in ther area that is the influential factor. Once things like the42 and Bauer, etc adorn our skyline, the market demand will prevent crap from getting built. And this goes for floorplans, materials, ammenities, etc.

Or you could have a design council at a municipal level that is the governing factor for whoever wants to build a project in a certain area. It communities that crave development at any cost though, this can be seen as a deterant---and developers who are use to passing off sh*t will cry bloody murder when they are sent to the drawing board again (or they threaten not to build at all). But it is working wonders in Edmonton. You are seeing the tail end of the buildings given permits before the EDC (Edmonton Design Council) being built now. Everything from here on in is 10x better because of their influence and governence.

[oxpark]

Unfortunately, the city councillors claim there is not much they can do, other than pass along my comments to Auburn.

Don't waste your time - your comments will never reach the key people who make the decisions at Auburn (even if you knew who to ask for, they wouldn't take your call or read your notes). Your time is better spent understanding the additional development approval processes required to building permit and conveying your comments to the municipal staff on file. There are limitations in the ability of municipalities to regulate "sticks and bricks", but although I work in the planning field in London, I believe Waterloo has a site plan review panel that must approve site plans prior to the issuance of any building permits.