Why is Miami so underrated for its urbanity?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Miami's Latin population overwhelmingly identifies as white.

Sure, just like half of Vancouver's population self-identifies as "fluent in French"

I don't care what you think you are, if you're a brown-skinned unilingual Spanish speaker living in a tropical city, you aren't meeting the common definition of a white person in an American (or Canadian, for that matter) context.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually yes, those are extremely similar. (Drop a Street View pin in any Montreal inner city neighborhood for contrast.) If you weren't sarcastic, can you highlight the differences? I'm curious.

Nice sidewalks... so people can walk to... where? They only serve to walk one's dog around the block.

I had to visit someone in Coal Harbor once and I walked (from Strathcona where I lived), I was one of very few walkers as soon as I left DTES behind. Super sterile, nowhere to walk to. It may look urban at first sight because shiny condo towers, but it's not. Pretty sure that's also the "problem" in many newer Miami areas, at least according to this thread.

And IIRC from my last visit, there's sidewalks and "generous greenery" in Miami too.

Nah, Vancouver is literally light years ahead of Miami on issues of walkability. They aren't even close.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Let's be real here, what it means to be White Hispanic =/= White American. There's a lot to unpack and you're being misleading.

Crawford being misleading? Stop the presses...

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't care what you think you are, if you're a brown-skinned unilingual Spanish speaker living in a tropical city,

You've, quite clearly, never been to Miami.

Again, Miami isn't a "brown" city, it's a white city. The whites in Coral Gables, Doral and Weston are every bit as white as on Long Island or in New Jersey. And they speak English, obviously.

[bossabreezes]

Miami is not a ''white'' city. Miami is a mixed city. To say otherwise is being misleading. Demographically, it looks like many large cities in Latin America. Thoroughly mixed.

There are a ton of white latinos but they don't make up the majority of the population of hispanics in the region or city. Maybe in the past when the city was almost singularly Cuban, but this has not been the case for at least a decade at this point, probably two.

Don't forget Miami also plays as a sort of second home for thousands that own property there but do not live there. I am Brazilian and I know many people who own property in Miami but don't plan on living there full time. Simply a place to park money. These types of people skew white, however they don't contribute to the city's actual demographics.

Also, the native tongue of something like 60% of Miami-Dade county is Spanish. So while the majority can speak English, the day-to-day in Miami outside of Miami Beach and coastal towns is in Spanish.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Miami isn't a cultural heavyweight, and this has nothing to do with Western/Anglo bias. It just developed too late to the party to develop traditional cultural markers.

There is significant cultural identity -- Miami is a Spanish/Hispanic/Latino/Caribbean city. With traditional cultural markers emanating from those places of origin. The fact that Miami is without question the US capital of Latin culture, in all its various forms, signifies that it is most certainly a "cultural heavyweight". There is a very easily perceived, in-your-face Spanish influence to the region. And particularly because it is in the United States, it is one of the world's most prominent Latin cities. I don't know how much more heavyweight in culutre you can get than that.

Originally Posted by Crawford

In fact Miami is a very white city, much moreso than other leading U.S. cities. It's much whiter than NY, LA, SF, Chi, DC, Atl, Houston, Dallas, etc.

Again, Miami isn't a "brown" city, it's a white city. The whites in Coral Gables, Doral and Weston are every bit as white as on Long Island or in New Jersey. And they speak English, obviously.

I was talking potential Anglo attitudes towards what established "culutre" is. It's not a technical caucasian-origin racial thing.

White Cubans do not consider themselves to be be 'white' American. Miami is without question a "brown" city. My father-in-law is a fair-skinned Cuban who had reddish hair as a younger man... he would NEVER say he is white, nor identify in the least as a white (i.e., Anglo) American.

Miami is sooooo much more a "brown" city than ANY of those cities you listed. It is EASILY the brownest major city in the US -- in all the forms of "brown" culutre, if we're calling it that. It is the capital of brown culture for the US.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You've, quite clearly, never been to Miami.

Again, Miami isn't a "brown" city, it's a white city. The whites in Coral Gables, Doral and Weston are every bit as white as on Long Island or in New Jersey. And they speak English, obviously.

Coral Gables isn't Miami. Miami itself is pretty mixed racially and ethnically and I don't think anyone could tie it to one particular race.

[pj3000]

^ Coral Gables is basically part of Miami though... and it's still characterized by a predominant Latin culture.

It's a majority Hispanic place, just like Miami as a whole... and nothing like ANYWHERE on Long Island or New Jersey.

[UrbanImpact]

A lot of peoples opinions and experiences are based on the Miami years ago. Miami has greatly urbanized just within the past couple of years and is continuing to do so on a fast track level. I think it deservers another visit if you haven't been down within the last 3 years.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by lio45

Nice sidewalks... so people can walk to... where? They only serve to walk one's dog around the block.

I had to visit someone in Coal Harbor once and I walked (from Strathcona where I lived), I was one of very few walkers as soon as I left DTES behind. Super sterile, nowhere to walk to. It may look urban at first sight because shiny condo towers, but it's not. Pretty sure that's also the "problem" in many newer Miami areas, at least according to this thread.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site.

Nowhere to walk to in Vancouver? In one of the most walkable cities in North America. With the world's longest uninterupted urban waterfront pathway. And Canada's highest percentage of commuters that walk to work (25%). Lol ok.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by cabasse

i completely agree with your sentiments and was also quite impressed the first time i visited. miami is nothing like its sunbelt peers in GA/TX. it definitely feels much more walkable, and yeah, its weird how people are jumping on your case.

Because he continues saying it's underrated.
It's not..
On this forum, it's not considered urban ss the older cities/LA
But it is more urban than Phoenix or Houston.

It's pretty clear where it stands on my years here. Hes actually overrating the place. It has nothing to do with not having brownstones or whatever excuse.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by pj3000

There is significant cultural identity -- Miami is a Spanish/Hispanic/Latino/Caribbean city. With traditional cultural markers emanating from those places of origin. The fact that Miami is without question the US capital of Latin culture, in all its various forms, signifies that it is most certainly a "cultural heavyweight". There is a very easily perceived, in-your-face Spanish influence to the region. And particularly because it is in the United States, it is one of the world's most prominent Latin cities. I don't know how much more heavyweight in culutre you can get than that.




I was talking potential Anglo attitudes towards what established "culutre" is. It's not a technical caucasian-origin racial thing.

White Cubans do not consider themselves to be be 'white' American. Miami is without question a "brown" city. My father-in-law is a fair-skinned Cuban who had reddish hair as a younger man... he would NEVER say he is white, nor identify in the least as a white (i.e., Anglo) American.

Miami is sooooo much more a "brown" city than ANY of those cities you listed. It is EASILY the brownest major city in the US -- in all the forms of "brown" culutre, if we're calling it that. It is the capital of brown culture for the US.

I don’t know about the social attitudes of US White Hispanics or US White Brazilians in their adopted land, but down here Whites don’t think themselves as "whites" all the time. They are usually completely unaware of things like “white privilege” or the structural racism rooted deeply in society. They just keep living on, passing wealth through generations, keeping the whole system intact. In the US, those problems were exposed much earlier, as Blacks kept a much clearer visible minority.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t “white” nor that they don't perform the same role, enjoying the same privileges (if not more) than US whites, as one should expect of a colonial society. US and Latin America societies are much more similar than Americans acknowledge. It's basically Europeans (later named "Whites") ruling countries they've built on a completely subjugated hemisphere.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

I don’t know about the social attitudes of US White Hispanics or US White Brazilians in their adopted land, but down here Whites don’t think themselves as "whites" all the time. They are usually completely unaware of things like “white privilege” or the structural racism rooted deeply in society. They just keep living on, passing wealth through generations, keeping the whole system intact. In the US, those problems were exposed much earlier, as Blacks kept a much clearer visible minority.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t “white” nor that they don't perform the same role, enjoying the same privileges (if not more) than US whites, as one should expect of a colonial society. US and Latin America societies are much more similar than Americans acknowledge. It's basically Europeans (later named "Whites") ruling countries they've built on a completely subjugated hemisphere.

I wouldn't say that. I mean Spanish and British colonies are a lot different from one another. Yeah, they may have been colonized and settled by White Europeans, but Southern and Northern Europe is pretty different culturally speaking honestly. Spain and Portugal are very different from the UK. Not to mention, Latin America(especially Central/South America) has a TON of influence from the native Mayan culture. That is not the case for America or Canada where almost none of the Native American or First Nations culture was infused into the general Anglo culture.

Latin America without a doubt has western influences, but I wouldn't call the day to day life and culture similar to America at all.

[pj3000]

^ It's certainly not exactly the same, nor even the same... but after living in Brazil for a few years, I have to agree with yuriandrade's assessment. Brazil is a melting pot, much like the US. The European colonial history plays a lasting role, regardless of whether it was British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. And, there's plenty of British (and Dutch and French) influence in South America, Central America, and the Caribbean too. It's not just Spanish or Portuguese.

And I've NEVER heard about any Mayan influence in South America...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You've, quite clearly, never been to Miami.

Again, Miami isn't a "brown" city, it's a white city. The whites in Coral Gables, Doral and Weston are every bit as white as on Long Island or in New Jersey. And they speak English, obviously.

I've been several times, just not recently. But I've had to use Spanish in my FL neck of the woods (Brevard County / Space Coast) several times with unilingual (brown, nonwhite) laborers, typically from the DR or Puerto Rico, and I can only guess that this is even "worse" in Miami.

As pj3000 points out, in the real world, Miami is the brownest major American city.

Miami is the whitest American city in the same universe where the Dow Jones is at record lows these days - that famous Crawfordian alternate reality sometimes invoked in the CE subforum (always to laughs, at least from me). The sad part is, you seem to actually believe your crap.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

I don’t know about the social attitudes of US White Hispanics or US White Brazilians in their adopted land, but down here Whites don’t think themselves as "whites" all the time. They are usually completely unaware of things like “white privilege” or the structural racism rooted deeply in society. They just keep living on, passing wealth through generations, keeping the whole system intact. In the US, those problems were exposed much earlier, as Blacks kept a much clearer visible minority.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t “white” nor that they don't perform the same role, enjoying the same privileges (if not more) than US whites, as one should expect of a colonial society. US and Latin America societies are much more similar than Americans acknowledge. It's basically Europeans (later named "Whites") ruling countries they've built on a completely subjugated hemisphere.

Not true....as a son of Brazilians I can tell you there is the same crap there too. For example security at the airport or security at an exclusive night club treat people of white or black color a lot differently. I've seen it happen in Brazil plenty of times.

Also, your president is even more racist than Donald Trump!

[pj3000]

^ It seems like you're misinterpreting what he's saying.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vanman

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site.

Nowhere to walk to in Vancouver?

In the Miami-esque areas of Vancouver, absolutely, yes. There's little to no street retail; it's all glass condo towers built for international investors who have vehicles. The sidewalks are only good to take leisure walks around the block, not go to the store and come back with bags of stuff.

With the world's longest uninterupted urban waterfront pathway.

And it's good only to walk one's dog. Doesn't contradict me in the slightest.

In fact, that "longest" you're bragging about is not well aligned at all with "walkable"; I don't want my neighborhood grocery store to be at the other end of the "world's longest pathway".

BTW, I never said the city didn't have walkable pockets; I was within reasonable distance of Commercial Dr so I did lots of things on foot including at least half my grocery shopping (at the "Il Mercato" corner of 1st). But I found many newer areas of the downtown to be sterile. Another Canadian agreed earlier, so it's probably not anywhere near "the dumbest post" this forum has ever seen, especially when right next to a post that claims America's least white major city is actually America's most white major city.

[Crawford]

Miami city, per U.S. Census, is 73% white. Miami-Dade, per U.S. Census, is 74% white. Both jurisdictions have rather small black populations, and tiny Asian populations. This is whiter, usually substantially whiter, than the other first tier American cities or core counties. Like anyone who has been to Miami can see quite clearly that Miami Hispanics are heavily white. The Afro-Caribbean population is much smaller than in other major metros, and the Indigenous/Mestizo population is minimal.

No one is saying they are "culturally" white, but they're indisputably white. U.S. Hasidic Jews or Sicilians or Persians or Portuguese aren't "culturally" white, in a "Cracker Barrel and Nascar" sense, but they're white.

[bossabreezes]

Don't forget that Census is self reported and some Latin Americans have a very different conceptualization of ''White''. Some populations consider themselves white if they have light eyes, straight hair, and dark skin. Some people consider themselves white if they are not black, but something inbetween. So, this statistic holds absolutely no water, especially in a city heavily populated by majority non-white countries.

Not sure why Crawford want's Miami to be overwhelmingly white, but it must have something to do with him not liking it, and therefore, it's white and has no flavor. Clearly, this is all hogwash.

Also, I agree with those who mentioned Brazil is similar to the US in population racial demographics and disagree with those who say Brazilians are just as obsessed with race as Americans. There is no competition, Americans are over-the-top obsessed with race. Nowhere else on the planet other than countries with ethnic cleansing are so overtly obsessed with skin color.