AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[cvalkan]

KUT article about the I35 cut and cap proposals.

http://www.kutnews.org/post/deeper-l...lans-bury-i-35

[DoubleC]

I just want to know how they plan on relocating the current I35 traffic.

As someone on the website's article said, they're only covering up the congestion. The diagram they show calls for four lanes each direction, which won't do much unless they add a toll or HOV lane (or something else). I assume they're thinking more about the concept itself of digging 35 under before they get serious into the highway engineering?

[wwmiv]

What we need is Lloyd Doggett getting an earmark for this project. It's the 4th most congested roadway in the United States. Surely that qualifies. The Big Dig was an earmark, after all.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by DoubleC

I just want to know how they plan on relocating the current I35 traffic.

As someone on the website's article said, they're only covering up the congestion. The diagram they show calls for four lanes each direction, which won't do much unless they add a toll or HOV lane (or something else). I assume they're thinking more about the concept itself of digging 35 under before they get serious into the highway engineering?

Actually no. This is still adding a lane each way. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the proposal calls for HOV lanes in the center as well (or at least will almost certainly end up with it that way in the final design if it goes that far).

Furthermore, the problem through this section has less to do with the number of lanes than it has to do with the insane number of entrances and exits that create weaving. That is the primary cause of congestion through downtown Austin. You remove that (which this proposal largely does) and you remove congestion largely.

Also, the proposal increases the number of lanes that are in the access roads by moving them to the "capped" section, which also increases capacity through downtown insofar as it is needed because of the offloading of into town commuters at the entrances to downtown at the river and the university.

[KevinFromTexas]

There was another article here about the cut and cap plan.

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/08/01...ntown-highway/

[DoubleC]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Furthermore, the problem through this section has less to do with the number of lanes than it has to do with the insane number of entrances and exits that create weaving. That is the primary cause of congestion through downtown Austin. You remove that (which this proposal largely does) and you remove congestion largely.

Have to agree with that, a lot of entrances aren't even a frost bank tower's length away from the next exit. Still, an extra lane would give drivers some space they might want if it starts to look like 610: fast but compact.

[lzppjb]

This will create bottlenecks at both ends, won't it? Interested to see what they do about that.

[wwmiv]

There are already bottlenecks at both ends. Besides, those sections need to be fixed anyway.

[lzppjb]

There are 3 lanes each way south of the river and north of the project area. After the project, we would have 4+ lanes going down to 3. That is a bottleneck that isn't there currently.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

There are 3 lanes each way south of the river and north of the project area. After the project, we would have 4+ lanes going down to 3. That is a bottleneck that isn't there currently.

Oh. I see what you mean. I thought you meant a bottleneck created by the exits to the blvds.

That's a single bottleneck, really, and it happens to be a bottleneck that already exists just further north. I.E. the bottleneck will simply move.

However, given the removal of many entrances and exits, the traffic flow through the bottleneck should be significantly better than current.

[lzppjb]

I agree about the exits/entrances. That constant shuffling is what bogs down traffic.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I agree about the exits/entrances. That constant shuffling is what bogs down traffic.

Traffic changing lanes does bog down traffic. To prevent the changing of lanes, are you proposing that all lanes exit? 'Cause that's the only way to reduce the amount of lane changing.

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

There are 3 lanes each way south of the river and north of the project area. After the project, we would have 4+ lanes going down to 3. That is a bottleneck that isn't there currently.

You have to keep in mind that the cut & cap proposal is only intended to address the problems of this one segment. TXDOT has other proposals for the other segments of I-35. All of them call for taking the number of lanes up to a minimum of 4 lanes (through Austin).

[MightyYoda]

Originally Posted by hereinaustin

You have to keep in mind that the cut & cap proposal is only intended to address the problems of this one segment. TXDOT has other proposals for the other segments of I-35. All of them call for taking the number of lanes up to a minimum of 4 lanes (through Austin).

Also there are 4 lanes through the raised portion (2 top, 2 below) so this would keep 4 lanes at least until out of downtown. As mentioned above, there are also other plans to increase lanes elsewhere.

I imagine the bridge separated frontage roads would just stay separate and not merge back into 35? Basically, last exit for downtown right before hitting the bridge until after university area?

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by hereinaustin

You have to keep in mind that the cut & cap proposal is only intended to address the problems of this one segment. TXDOT has other proposals for the other segments of I-35. All of them call for taking the number of lanes up to a minimum of 4 lanes (through Austin).

http://www.mobility35openhouse.com/Locations.aspx

Those are the improvements being considered for the other segments of I-35.

[Cd1076]

This is worth watching concerning the cut and cap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dboZS...ature=youtu.be

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Cd1076

This is worth watching concerning the cut and cap:

Would be a much better video if they had included the various costs to the various options. All this video gave was their preferred option, with no projected costs.

Hey, we all want to live in a mansion, we all want to drive a cadillac, we all want to dine on steaks, yes even prime rib every day, but we all can't afford it.

It mentions other cut and cap proposals, but not their costs. Beware, Boston's costs tripled during construction. The project in Dallas was half financed with local and private funds - the cut was preexisting and only required capping. There are underground parking all over the world, not just in Houston. Even Dallas has underground parking under city hall and the federal courthouse. Shucks, even part of the Texas Capitol is underground.

I'm not going to suggest cutting and capping is impossible, but I would like to see those advocating for it be truthful about what it would cost relative to other proposals to expanding I-35. That may require the completion of various studies, never-the-less the question of how much it will cost should be answered.

[MightyYoda]

Originally Posted by electricron

Would be a much better video if they had included the various costs to the various options. All this video gave was their preferred option, with no projected costs.

Hey, we all want to live in a mansion, we all want to drive a cadillac, we all want to dine on steaks, yes even prime rib every day, but we all can't afford it.

It mentions other cut and cap proposals, but not their costs. Beware, Boston's costs tripled during construction. The project in Dallas was half financed with local and private funds - the cut was preexisting and only required capping. There are underground parking all over the world, not just in Houston. Even Dallas has underground parking under city hall and the federal courthouse. Shucks, even part of the Texas Capitol is underground.

I'm not going to suggest cutting and capping is impossible, but I would like to see those advocating for it be truthful about what it would cost relative to other proposals to expanding I-35. That may require the completion of various studies, never-the-less the question of how much it will cost should be answered.

The original estimate was 550 million. I imagine it could cost more, but what they are doing isn't very different than waller creek right now which is under 150 million I believe. It would be a bigger and slightly longer tunnel. The lack of exits make it a less complicated and cheaper project. The tax revenue generated is conservatively estimated at much higher than that (~1 billion+) over 20 years. I35 is in such a state that bandaid fixes are useless and a waste of money. I am tired of seeing TXDOT waste 100 million here and 100 million there not actually fixing the problems. This is something that could be paid for with the tax revenue generated over a 20 year loan. Obviously we need a more detailed analysis of the projected costs, but I haven't seen a competing proposal come anywhere close to this one.

[lzppjb]

Thanks for the video. I still wonder what they'll do between 12th and 19th when the 4 buried lanes merge to 3 lanes, then hit the upperdeck split. I know there are plans to add tolled lanes at the split. Are there any plans for that stretch I'm talking about?

[MightyYoda]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Thanks for the video. I still wonder what they'll do between 12th and 19th when the 4 buried lanes merge to 3 lanes, then hit the upperdeck split. I know there are plans to add tolled lanes at the split. Are there any plans for that stretch I'm talking about?

Would definitely be silly to leave it 3 lanes before the decks. Seems like adding an additional toll lane and possibly turning one of the upper deck lanes to toll would be the best change? I know adding a 4th toll lane throughout Austin is the general plan. If this project was done, not doing 12-19th at the same time would be stupid. If done together, we would have 4 lanes all the way through downtown.