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  #6541  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 7:34 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by DesertRay View Post
.

11 years is an eternity.

From 2009: https://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/tec...ostversion=200

"Tesla Motors turned profitable for the first time in July, when the electric car manufacturer shipped a record 109 vehicles, the company said Friday.

A surge in sales and reduced manufacturing costs of Tesla's Roadster 2 sports car helped boost the company to $1 million in earnings and $20 million in revenue.

"There is strong demand for a car that is unique in offering high performance with a clean conscience," said Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, in a prepared statement. "Customers know that in buying the Roadster they are helping fund development of our mass market electric cars."

The Roadster has a range of about 244 miles per charge -- the first production electric vehicle to cross the 200-mile mark, according to the press release.

The Roadster is the only highway-capable electric vehicle for sale in North America or Europe, and the company says it is faster than a Porsche and twice as energy-efficient as a Toyota Prius."

Meanwhile, Tesla is setting up factory number three in China, Volkswagen is building their battery factories, Chinese companies are cranking out electric cars, buses, motorcycles, and even Harley Davidson is cranking out Electric Hogs. Buckle up--these things accelerate like rockets.
Dont forget a roadster is flying out into space..



Cya space cowboy!

Edit: Oh no, Elon has doomed the future with a roadster asteroid.

Quote:
An orbit-modelling study performed last year predicted that the space car will eventually slam into either Venus or Earth, probably within the next few tens of millions of years.

But do not worry as there is only a six percent chance the Tesla Roadster will slam into Earth within the next million years.

The is compared with 2.5 percent chance of a Venus impact in that same timespan, according to calculations.
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  #6542  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 7:54 PM
xymox xymox is offline
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Dont forget a roadster is flying out into space..



Cya space cowboy!

Edit: Oh no, Elon has doomed the future with a roadster asteroid.
You know - if Tesla would just hurry up and build flying cars, we wouldn’t need roads. The light rail funding would be easier...
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  #6543  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 8:23 PM
DesertRay DesertRay is offline
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Ha!

Of course, if we had flying cars, we wouldn't need to pay for potholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flge_rw6RG0
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  #6544  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 9:15 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I own one of the vehicles the Tesla Roadster is based on and I cannot imagine driving that car without the noises and sensations of an ICE. To each his own but as an auto enthusiast I find these electric cars to be disgusting.
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  #6545  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
I own one of the vehicles the Tesla Roadster is based on and I cannot imagine driving that car without the noises and sensations of an ICE. To each his own but as an auto enthusiast I find these electric cars to be disgusting.
I don't have a problem with electric cars per say as I am a technology enthusiast. However, first and foremost, I am also a car enthusiast and own a highly modified Audi TT which I enjoy immensely and tinker with daily. So, I'm kind of in both worlds. I just don't think the general public is as ready as we're all being led to believe when it comes to electric cars. They are more than the average consumer can afford, will require pretty much a specialist to fix after the warranty is up as there are just not enough electric car mechanics out there right now which will also be pricey, and there are just a lot of people that still want their gas vehicles (big diesel trucks, recreational vehicles, classic/muscle cars, vehicles needing to tow boats, campers or trailers...the list goes on).

It is a more complicated transition that most will admit. It's going to happen and I acknowledge that. I just don't think it's going to be as fast as some think.
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  #6546  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
I know its not a popular opinion on this board, but I agree with this. City of Phoenix is one of the worst cities in the valley in terms of keeping its roads repaired and updated. It feels like they went over 10 years w/o doing so - its taken them forever to repair Cave Creek Rd. The roads instantly improve when crossing from PHX -> Glendale or PHX -> Scottsdale 10x. Most of us drive cars - much fewer of us use the light rail. So I totally get the logic behind it.
Very well said; it's popular with me even though I'm a transit fan.

I posted many months before these decisions were made (but the crowd was gathering) that it was obvious Phoenix had been underfunding their road maintenance and not by a little bit.

They created a nice vision with T2050 but they didn't address the basics which is sad and a wasted opportunity.

Another of my pet peeves is the better return on investment for green and complete streets. Driving around Scottsdale and Chandler neighborhoods recently it's remarkable how far ahead of Phoenix both cities are when it comes to these concepts. It's like two totally different engineering departments from different worlds with different priorities and visions, with Phoenix still rooted in the last century.

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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
So - the extension is not ‘killed’ - its ‘delayed’. You could argue it means the same thing, but from what I’ve read, city council decided to put the money towards the 1.5B they need to improve city roads.
I recall suggesting an initiative for $750 million in bonding which could have made a yuge difference.
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  #6547  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRay View Post
Yeah, but it doesn't have to be this way. My favorite brief conversation is always:

Joe Cynic: "It's not a Democracy. It's a REPUBLIC!"

Me: "Republic is just a word that means 'representative democracy,' so it is both a democracy and a Republic. It's not a direct democracy, but that doesn't mean it's not a democracy."
Same; I usually use democratic Republic but agree that the best answer in our form of government is to vote out who you don't like and vote in who you like.


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Originally Posted by DesertRay View Post
The economists have been shifting their models rapidly, and I expect that kind of change in thinking to accelerate. It took Tesla ten years to sell a half-million electric cars, and they will sell a half million this year. I expect that kind of exponential growth to continue for the brands that electrified early. Hint: it's Tesla, and a handful of European brands. GM, Chrysler, and Ford won't know what hit them.
Agree mostly...

The reason GM is closing down five domestic factories is two-fold. One they're getting out of the 'car' business because they make their money selling SUV's and trucks. Same for Ford. The second issue is both companies are looking down the road and wondering how they will survive if they don't get on the EV train. Both want to spend $billions on EV R&D just as other manufacturers are also committing $billions to EV R&D. China, for their part sees the coming EV tsunami as their chance to be a prominent player.

In spite of all this investment I'd guess it will be a good decade before you see much availability and adoption. And how rapidly the public accepts EV's is still TBD. No question though there's a train a coming, so get on board.
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  #6548  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 1:37 AM
DesertRay DesertRay is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

Agree mostly...

The reason GM is closing down five domestic factories is two-fold. One they're getting out of the 'car' business because they make their money selling SUV's and trucks. Same for Ford. The second issue is both companies are looking down the road and wondering how they will survive if they don't get on the EV train. Both want to spend $billions on EV R&D just as other manufacturers are also committing $billions to EV R&D. China, for their part sees the coming EV tsunami as their chance to be a prominent player.

In spite of all this investment I'd guess it will be a good decade before you see much availability and adoption. And how rapidly the public accepts EV's is still TBD. No question though there's a train a coming, so get on board.
I think it will be quicker because of China. They are requiring an escalating percentage of vehicles be electric to sell in country, and they are THE market to be in right now; however, I do agree on Ford's and GM's strategies. They are trying to pile up money to slingshot into EVs. I'm concerned that this is a strategy that looks good on paper, but that doesn't build up the expertise that others are making fun of Musk and company for acquiring. There is no substitute for expertise, and certain companies are getting it right now, and others aren't.
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  #6549  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 2:20 AM
xymox xymox is offline
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Very well said; it's popular with me even though I'm a transit fan.

I posted many months before these decisions were made (but the crowd was gathering) that it was obvious Phoenix had been underfunding their road maintenance and not by a little bit.

They created a nice vision with T2050 but they didn't address the basics which is sad and a wasted opportunity.

Another of my pet peeves is the better return on investment for green and complete streets. Driving around Scottsdale and Chandler neighborhoods recently it's remarkable how far ahead of Phoenix both cities are when it comes to these concepts. It's like two totally different engineering departments from different worlds with different priorities and visions, with Phoenix still rooted in the last century.


I recall suggesting an initiative for $750 million in bonding which could have made a yuge difference.
I’d be for that. Unfortunately, I’m about to become a resident of Scottsdale so I won’t be able to. (This is partly because of the shitty incomplete roads in north Phoenix I need to take to/from Scottsdale - I.e. why Deer Valley doesn’t go to Scottsdale Rd & 56th St to Pinnacle Peak are beyond me at this point - and yes I get its state land, etc. But Tatum cuts through state land and was ‘temporarily’ widened to 4 lanes from Dynamite to Pinnacle Peak Rd over 20+ years ago now...so, it can be done). I’d be more concerned that the lack of money for roads meant they needed it to backfill pensions or some other hidden expense. If this city is going to grow larger than Houston (2M +) in the next 5 years then it surely isn’t doesn’t seem like its planning for it appropriately.

I think we need a new regional transportation initiative that plans for the next 30 years. I can find all sorts of pie in the sky plans online - but none of it seems serious w/o any funding sources. It doesn’t feel like 30 years ago when we had the current freeway system planned and being built...

And yes, expand the rail and other transit options. And for the love of god add commuter rail. Have some vision - the people and growth are coming - show we’re prepared for it.
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  #6550  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 4:52 PM
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If this city is going to grow larger than Houston (2M +) in the next 5 years then it surely isn’t doesn’t seem like its planning for it appropriately.
We're not going to be anywhere near Houston's population in 5 years.

2017 Census:
Houston: 2,312,717
Phoenix: 1,626,078
Difference of 626,639

The City of Phoenix will roughly grow 200,000 residents in 2020 since the 2010 census count. Even if Houston's growth completely stopped and Phoenix continued at the same current rate, it would take nearly 30 years to pass Houston. Houston's growth since 2010 to 2020 will be in the neighborhood of 225,000...more than Phoenix's growth. Metro population is an even larger gap between Phoenix and Houston and would take even longer to catch up...if again, Houston magically stopped growing which it won't.

Bottom line...we will not pass Houston any time soon.
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  #6551  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 5:18 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
We're not going to be anywhere near Houston's population in 5 years.

2017 Census:
Houston: 2,312,717
Phoenix: 1,626,078
Difference of 626,639

The City of Phoenix will roughly grow 200,000 residents in 2020 since the 2010 census count. Even if Houston's growth completely stopped and Phoenix continued at the same current rate, it would take nearly 30 years to pass Houston. Houston's growth since 2010 to 2020 will be in the neighborhood of 225,000...more than Phoenix's growth. Metro population is an even larger gap between Phoenix and Houston and would take even longer to catch up...if again, Houston magically stopped growing which it won't.

Bottom line...we will not pass Houston any time soon.
Assuming nothing major changes we will be stuck as #10 metro for quite a while, the Metros ahead of us are either SO far ahead it will take decades to catch them, or like Houston and Atlanta, they are growing nearly as fast as us with a significant head start.
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  #6552  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 9:43 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
They are doing their job, the voters did have a say, but....the council has determined the situation has change. (and it has)

Now the answer would be to get some turnover in he council to members that are more in favor of transity etc.
Unfortunately, voters may have done the opposite in the recent council elections.

In District 5, incumbent Vania Guevara spoke passionately against the council's short-sighted move to kill the west Camelback extension in her district. Nevertheless, she came in second in the recent vote and will face an upcoming runoff. I don't know where her opponent, Betty Guardado, stands on light rail.

In District 8, light rail supporter Lawrence Robinson didn't make it to the runoff. Instead, voters in that district face a choice between Carlos Garcia, who was part of the misguided Four-Lanes-or-No-Train movement, and Michael Johnson, who was part of the effort to kill the west Camelback extension on behalf of Bill Luke.

Having Kate Gallego as mayor may help stop the bleeding, but she's only one of nine votes.
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  #6553  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2019, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
I’d be more concerned that the lack of money for roads meant they needed it to backfill pensions or some other hidden expense.

I think we need a new regional transportation initiative that plans for the next 30 years. I can find all sorts of pie in the sky plans online - but none of it seems serious w/o any funding sources. It doesn’t feel like 30 years ago when we had the current freeway system planned and being built...
I'm sure that Scottsdale has a stronger tax base but your point is well taken in that in Phoenix 'Public Safety' (which admittedly is Job One) takes a huge bite out of the Phoenix budget and I'd also assume pensions are a part of that.

But to neglect creating and maintaining good transportation bones is sad.
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  #6554  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2019, 9:18 PM
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I think it will be quicker because of China. They are requiring an escalating percentage of vehicles be electric to sell in country, and they are THE market to be in right now; however, I do agree on Ford's and GM's strategies. They are trying to pile up money to slingshot into EVs. I'm concerned that this is a strategy that looks good on paper, but that doesn't build up the expertise that others are making fun of Musk and company for acquiring. There is no substitute for expertise, and certain companies are getting it right now, and others aren't.
Did you ever happen to read...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-oil-industry
Quote:
The numbers are staggering. China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
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  #6555  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 7:40 AM
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Fix the damn roads

Phoenix biker says pothole landed him in the ICU
Apr 01, 2019 By: Danielle Lerner - ABC15
Quote:
A bad spill on his bike near 7th Avenue and Roosevelt Street landed Ben Strouse in the ICU for three days.

Strouse was biking to a meeting when he hit a piece of crumbling road. He said one second he was up, the next he was face down on the ground covered
in blood. "Six facial fractures, broken nose, cervical vertebrae fractures, teeth misalignment, pretty bad lacerations, skin ripped from my face," said Strouse.

Photo by: ABC15
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  #6556  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 12:22 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Fix the damn roads
Is that you, Sal? Seriously, what happened to this man is unfortunate and that stretch of Roosevelt needs repairs, but it's disappointing that ABC 15 has turned his story into propaganda for DiCiccio's anti-rail agenda.

Looking a little deeper, I think part of the problem here is not so much funding, but instead a tendency by Phoenix's Street Transportation department to want every project to be perfectly designed and aligned with every other project before proceeding. I remember a few years ago seeing some preliminary designs for west Roosevelt that would have involved resurfacing the street while eliminating the left turn lane in most places so that bike lanes could be added. Then, the city decided that work had to wait until it completed the plans for improvements to the intersecting portions of 3rd and 5th Avenues. That project has involved increasingly complex designs to accommodate every last neighborhood concern. Years later, no work has been done because of "analysis paralysis." Reforming our street transportation department and reducing its reliance on outside consultants and overwrought designs could do far more good than raiding funds meant for rail expansion.

Another thought: I can't stand it when the media gratuitously mention if a bicyclist is or is not wearing a helmet. It's irrelevant unless there's a head injury involved. In this case, it appears the victim's injuries were to the head, although more to the face and other areas that would not have been protected by a conventional bike helmet. I think the only way this person might have been more protected would have been with a full-face helmet that some mountain bikers wear. That's just too much to ask most bicyclists to wear on a daily basis for ordinary trips on city streets.

Last edited by exit2lef; Apr 2, 2019 at 12:40 PM.
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  #6557  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 2:26 PM
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A helmet would have covered his forehead enough that his brow would not have been cut that bad...or the helmet was not adjusted properly or just a cheapo helmet. Either way, as for the pothole, I have been riding road bikes for 33 years and have never hit a pothole because I actually watch the road. Not that accidents can't happen, but I feel this was just a case of not paying attention. With that said, this particular stretch of Roosevelt is pretty bumpy. I found that out when I drove my car over it the other day and it rattled my car enough that I had to to slow down to 20 and divert down 5th to get off of Roosevelt.

However, DiCiccio just needs to shut up. District 6 has some of the best paved roads in Phoenix with a lot getting freshly paved on a regular basis. If he cares that much for other districts, how about he divert some of the funds from District 6 to the ones that actually need it instead of constantly wanting to raid LRT funding (which has received a large chunk of federal funding and again approved by the voters which this idiot seems to forget)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Is that you, Sal? Seriously, what happened to this man is unfortunate and that stretch of Roosevelt needs repairs, but it's disappointing that ABC 15 has turned his story into propaganda for DiCiccio's anti-rail agenda.

Looking a little deeper, I think part of the problem here is not so much funding, but instead a tendency by Phoenix's Street Transportation department to want every project to be perfectly designed and aligned with every other project before proceeding. I remember a few years ago seeing some preliminary designs for west Roosevelt that would have involved resurfacing the street while eliminating the left turn lane in most places so that bike lanes could be added. Then, the city decided that work had to wait until it completed the plans for improvements to the intersecting portions of 3rd and 5th Avenues. That project has involved increasingly complex designs to accommodate every last neighborhood concern. Years later, no work has been done because of "analysis paralysis." Reforming our street transportation department and reducing its reliance on outside consultants and overwrought designs could do far more good than raiding funds meant for rail expansion.

Another thought: I can't stand it when the media gratuitously mention if a bicyclist is or is not wearing a helmet. It's irrelevant unless there's a head injury involved. In this case, it appears the victim's injuries were to the head, although more to the face and other areas that would not have been protected by a conventional bike helmet. I think the only way this person might have been more protected would have been with a full-face helmet that some mountain bikers wear. That's just too much to ask most bicyclists to wear on a daily basis for ordinary trips on city streets.
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  #6558  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 2:29 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I don't think it's appropriate for anyone here, given what little you know about the circumstances, to try to predict what injuries a helmet would or would not have protected from.
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  #6559  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 2:46 PM
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Y'all gettin mad cuz Sal told you so. Maybe he could've seen the potholes from the window of the train!
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  #6560  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Is that you, Sal? Seriously, what happened to this man is unfortunate and that stretch of Roosevelt needs repairs, but it's disappointing that ABC 15 has turned his story into propaganda for DiCiccio's anti-rail agenda.
Fair enough but ABC15 has a very good and on-going section called Operation Safe Roads. This tucks nicely into that theme.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...him-in-the-icu
Quote:
Phoenix City Councilman Sal DiCiccio has been working to divert funding from future light rail extensions to road repairs that need to happen right now. "We need $1.6 billion today to make our roads safe again," he said.
Yeah, that's unfortunate but the problem here is more a practical one. When Prop 104 passed it was a nice (political) vision but they failed to address the woefully underfunded road maintenance budget. That was a predictable recipe for ending up right where we are.

You can't neglect the nuts and bolts-roads that over 90% of people rely on daily. When Prop 104 passed, it should have included a ten-year plan to eliminate (most) deferred road maintenance. The current conflict was wholly predictable and it's a practical not philosophical problem.

I did recently discover that one Moon Valley neighborhood has fresh roads to drive on.

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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
With that said, this particular stretch of Roosevelt is pretty bumpy. I found that out when I drove my car over it the other day and it rattled my car enough that I had to to slow down to 20 and divert down 5th to get off of Roosevelt.
All I've learned is the SEC of 3rd St and Roosevelt is a hot spot for Uber riders. Two of three trips over an half-hour came from there. The second trip went to the airport and the trip from there took me to Chandler. From there I 'deadheaded' to the Hampton Inn at Talking Stick which is one of my designated 'old guy' pit stops. It's usually good for one trip out of either the casino or Top Golf.

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Originally Posted by azsunsurfer View Post
Y'all gettin mad cuz Sal told you so. Maybe he could've seen the potholes from the window of the train!
Exactly, nothing unusual 'bout a politician taking advantage of another's self-inflicted wounds. Badly under-funding road maintenance seldom ends well.
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