Winnipeg's Exchange District | East/West | Development

[buzzg]

I don't find the sign that bad, but it does call even more attention to the horrible red gates. I actually like the original design for the sign (and for that matter, the gates should be held to that original standard as well). Hopefully the city goes back and puts some trees in that corner after... I think the way the signage and finishing of the CRU and lobby turns out will be much more noticeable/important, so hopefully they spend more money there.

I don't find the building design all that bad, it's just the gates that ruin it – having those funky die-cut panels would have made it way more interesting. Anyone know what was submitted to the city?

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Based on the sheer number of projects in those cities, what a horrible comparison. Anything not worth marveling at is long forgotten in the mix of things. 98 Market is one of only a handful of projects that are few and far between, making it count more. The streetscape along Market could have been stunning with a gem anchoring the end. Instead, what was approved (first of all is not what was delivered with those ugly baby gates) is some suburban-style inferior POS.

out of curiosity -- what recourse does the city have, if any, if a developer builds something with substantially different materials, finishes, etc?

I remember the city forcing some developer on Maryland to refinish a building using the specified materials instead of the cheapo stuff they opted for, but it seems like this is the exception, not the norm.

[Portmanteau]

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

Any more info on the CRU space?

Evidently a bakery and "food shop" - meats/cheeses etc... so a bit more upscale, and not in direct competition with the convenience store on Amy. Sort of Deluca's/Dinardi style.

[Wolf13]

Could have been worse...

I think we've all accepted that this project is an exercise in densification rather than an architectural groundbreaker.

[1ajs]

no but its a peic of a nieghborhood forming

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

out of curiosity -- what recourse does the city have, if any, if a developer builds something with substantially different materials, finishes, etc?

I remember the city forcing some developer on Maryland to refinish a building using the specified materials instead of the cheapo stuff they opted for, but it seems like this is the exception, not the norm.

I brought that up to someone at the city; never heard back. If the city approved a design, they should be able to force the developer to make changes if the design turns out to be different.

[buzzg]

Went by in person. The sign looks bad to me not based on just design, but on functionality – why is it hidden on the side? Having it split on the corner like the renders would have been way more visible. Also weird they went with "98m" – really similar to 62M (spaceship) which is on MacDonald. ALSO, the silver flashing on the CRU overhang looks horrendous – good design idea but terrible execution. Already looks 20 years old and falling apart.

I'd be all for the city making them change the design of the "gates" – it'd make this project 10x better, as the building itself is pretty inoffensive. Just some of the small finishing bits look bad.

[heritage]

Definitely not the best looking building but I like that it has ground floor retail and think that compact 6 story development is ideal for the exchange.

[1ajs]

the new energy code is to blame i would think.

[trueviking]

Buildings in heritage districts shouldn't have six foot tall logos on them. It looks like something you'd see on a building at the side of the freeway in Phoenix.

The sign with the roof fence was a nice idea. This is out of character for the area.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

no but its a peic of a nieghborhood forming

True, but $$$

Originally Posted by 1ajs

the new energy code is to blame i would think.

In all likelihood.

Simple looking projects like this were expensive in Winnipeg before the new code came in anyways.


Everything could be nicer, but the bonus to the design simplicity is that it could also be way more tacky. Even the most highly regarded of older heritage neighbourhoods have an eclectic mix of design, so I'm not worried. Anything that gets people into the exchange, and more businesses in return, will allow for greater revenues and better designs in the future.

[sam_c]

In Winnipeg, we can always look at other cities for a glimpse into our future (5-30 years from now).

Rise of the yimbys: the angry millennials with a radical housing solution

Here's an interesting read, especially as the Exchange District shares borders with some of the lowest rents (north-end low income housing) and the most expensive infills (million-dollar Waterfront condos and new fancy St Boniface homes). Not sure how long this one will take, but I can see it coming long-term... I imagine it wouldn't be that pressing until all the available spaces are gone (and there are still a ton of surface lots and empty buildings to use up first)!

"With more housing, the thinking goes, the cost of rent in thriving cities...will not rise so quickly, which will allow more people from different economic backgrounds to live there and share in the prosperity of the local economy."

[wags_in_the_peg]

Picture makes me laugh "Home for Janitors" I Agree, "Home for Teachers"??? Many make $75k++ /year. I know in the USA they don't, but around here Teachers, Cops, Firefighters are extremally well paid.

[buzzg]

There's like 1 millennial in that picture.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by sam_c

In Winnipeg, we can always look at other cities for a glimpse into our future (5-30 years from now).

Rise of the yimbys: the angry millennials with a radical housing solution

Here's an interesting read, especially as the Exchange District shares borders with some of the lowest rents (north-end low income housing) and the most expensive infills (million-dollar Waterfront condos and new fancy St Boniface homes). Not sure how long this one will take, but I can see it coming long-term... I imagine it wouldn't be that pressing until all the available spaces are gone (and there are still a ton of surface lots and empty buildings to use up first)!

"With more housing, the thinking goes, the cost of rent in thriving cities...will not rise so quickly, which will allow more people from different economic backgrounds to live there and share in the prosperity of the local economy."

But of course the protesting started in Berkeley

I can agree that housing is expensive, and I can agree that sometimes Nimby's ruin things. If Yimbys help override a bunch of whiners, and add quality, profitable, dense and affordable development to areas, that's good in principle.

Three potential problems:
1) there seems to be an entitlement to living in a preferred neighbourhood. There is a difference between "I can't afford rent" and "I can't afford the space I want to rent"
2) I can see this gaining momentum from angrier/dummer people and spiralling well beyond reason
3) So many people NOT from London, Vancouver or San Francisco can adopt this position, and unless you're from London, Vancouver, or San Francisco, that position is premature. These cities are outliers currently.

But I like the general principle of putting people in the right places and overriding Nimby's, within reason.

[buzzg]

The 98M sign lights up bright red lol. Also, 1919 memorial is coming along really nicely, but I feel like they’re going to have to make some changes to the story part, all the text is cut out of metal and really hard to read.

Also, they ripped up the entire sidewalk in front of Mitchell Block, Forth and Galpern... it was already brand new as of last year. Must be some sort of infrastructure issue, so I wonder if that explains the holdup on finishing off the Galpern entrances

[pacman]

Warning, I may ramble a bit in this post...

I'm not as young as I used to be so I'm significantly less of a night owl so to speak compared to what I was in the 90s. That being said, I was quite familiar with our beloved Exchange District typically between the hours of 9:00 PM and 3:00 AM on the weekends where I frequented pretty much every popular establishment of the day as did many of you on this forum. The reason I bring this up is to provide some context for the rest of the post.

As a regular follower of this forum (even though I don't contribute much) I have been very aware and excited to hear about the rejuvenation of the Exchange District. I have read many posts discussing how night and day the difference is over the last few years and how exciting a place it is now. I've been reading that it still has a long way to go, but incrementally increases in businesses, additional residents on Waterfront and in many warehouse renovations, an explosion of restaurants and patios are all combining to increase the vibrancy of this neighbourhood to the point that its on the cusp of the "critical mass" needed to take it over the top. Obviously I'm paraphrasing and generalising quite a bit, but let's just say there is a lot of positivity in here regarding the current state of the Exchange.

Which brings me to the point of my post. Fast forward to this past Friday night. Like I said, I don't get out much anymore but I was at the Jets game and after the exciting win against the Wild I was feeling a little energetic. Me and the wife passed by the Shark Club for a bit to donate to True North's coffers, and at about 11:00 PM we decided to leave and extend the evening a bit longer. I will fast forward through my disappointing walk along Graham to Main Street, leisurely strolling north on Main to our world famous intersection, and continuing to the gateway to my old stomping grounds, McDermot and Rorie. I don't think anyone can dispute that while standing at that intersection, you are shoulder deep in "The Exchange".

More context, I looked at my watch and it was 11:20pm, the weather was beautiful, 15,000 people recently exiting the arena with a lot of those people looking to continue the night. No excuses as far as people being at the lake, people being busy with Christmas parties, no long weekends, nothing you could point to at all, THE PLACE WAS A GHOST TOWN! I'm talking zero activity, no pedestrians, no music, no cabs, no parked cars, nothing. I turned to my wife and I said "where the hell is everyone?". We continued our walk up Rorie, turned east on Bannatyne to our super duper "back-in diagonal parking experiment" and I literally counted 3 cars parked in the block between Rorie and Waterfront at 11:30 PM on a Friday night. No bars open, no activity, no music, empty parking lots, ghost town. Turned around, walked down to Main and Bannatyne and finally some life. Between Bannatyne and Portage on Main Street there was energy, but is that really "The Exchange"? By that time I was feeling old and we packed it in, jumped in our car and back to the suburbs. Before going home, I drove around the rest of the east exchange to north of the museum, Waterfront, even drove down the brand spanking new pedestrian friendly John Hirsh Place. Crossed to the west side of main and drove up and down those fantastic streets between Notre Dame and Market up to Princess and saw some life at the King's Head. Again, I don't think anyone can dispute that I saw "The Exchange" and aside from those two blocks on Main Street, I don't think I saw more than 10 people in that half hour.

Let's go back in time to say 1995/96, the good ol' days. Back then, our crew used to hit The Bank, Wiseguys, Norma Jean's/Roxies, Rolling Stone, cross Main to Planet X, dabble in the Wellington's/ King's Head scene, and hung out where Old Spaghetti Factory used to be (can't remember the name of that place). There were lineups at all of those places, people used to go club to club THROUGHOUT the night, and if you were driving (lots of us stupidly did back then) you couldn't find a parking spot within a few blocks of Bannatyne/Rorie. Those surface parking lots behind Wiseguys were packed and sometimes we had to park along ship Street (before there was a Waterfront Drive). Cabs were constantly circling, patios were pumping the tunes, live bands made the rounds, and there were always people on the street. Even when you went to Johnny G's after the bar for a bite until 3:00-3:30 there was still a presence in the neighborhood when you walked out. These are not my memories through rose-coloured glasses, these are facts that some of you my age can easily verify.

The point of this post is not to relive glory days or say my generation was better or anything like that. I was genuinely looking forward to a rare late night out hanging around my old stomping grounds and excited to see what the buzz was about with the Exchange's recent awesomeness. I was shocked to see the absolute flatline in vibrancy in that neighbourhood at 11:00-11:30 on a Friday night after a Jets game with beautiful weather and no reason not to be partying.

Was I in the twilight zone or did I experience a typical Friday night in Winnipeg's party centre? I'm not a grumpy old man (I don't think), but if people here think the Exchange is rockin' now they don't know what they're talking about. I recognize I might come across as whining or being a Debbie Downer or pissing on the excitement surrounding the area and that's not my intent. I'm genuinely curious if people actually think the Exchange as is is bordering on vibrant.

[buzzg]

What you're experiencing is the shift in the hospitality scene. People simply don't go to the club and party like they used to, hence why there are only 3 nightclubs left in The Exchange, and 1 of those is about to move/close. People, especially younger people, don't party the same way and are less interested in blowing money at the club. Smaller cocktail bars and lounges are starting to open there more and more, so that will help with the nightlife.

[esquire]

^ Interesting point. I wonder if the noisy crowded rock/dance bar thing just isn't what the kids are into these days? Seems to me that the hip places to go are generally lower-key, quieter places where you can listen to some more mellow music, sip craft beer or cocktails, etc. Think The Good Will as opposed to Wise Guys. The popular scene these days is less rowdy than it was in the 80s and 90s when it seemed like every place was basically trying to deliver a Fort Lauderdale Spring Break kind of atmosphere.

[pacman]

I see what you guys are saying about the trend away from crowded bars and clubs to a more laidback lounge scene, I get that and that was what I was expecting (and hoping) to see given my age. I admit I don't know the popular places anymore, but I couldn't tell that there were any places given the lack of any sign of life. There were hardly any cars parked anywhere, no pedestrians, no noise, no activity. Assuming people were still in the area but the demographics of the places changed to a more low key scene you would still expect to see people.