PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

The way I see it, this would use a more undesirable location with a purpose that won't mind a MASSIVE HIGHWAY view, in fact would be a bonus.
The parcel on Market is conducive to the residential development that is rising just to the south AND on Market.
It's an iconic lot that would have a dramatic presence, not being completely surrounded by other buildings.
AND, well, it's vacant.
AND, I would just hate to see a Market Street location.
These new arenas are nothing but big boxes.
A SPORTS MALL!
New residential development will not be attracted to this.

Winter Street Park 1-15-23 e cropped by , on Flickr

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100082127799964

Part of what is so appealing to me about the current plan is all to the people it forces onto Market street from 8th to 12th. The development that will induce is going to be fantastic for the area. It will be unrecognizable within a year or two of the arena opening. If the arena goes in that far north like you’re suggesting, it’s no guarantee that section of Market sees the transformational change it will see under the current plan.

[Nanyika]

Originally Posted by mja

Sure, there were / are houses, but even most of that was built to house workers in nearby factories. Specifically I'm talking the area north of Chinatown, i.e. roughly 9th to Broad, Vine to Spring Garden. It was / is already severed by the viaduct and it's chock full of century+ old industrial factories, warehouses, etc. The idea that it was truly functioning residential area before Vine St. came along is more than a stretch, let alone to claim it was a part of Chinatown.

And if we're talking East Callowhill, wasn't that the tenderloin? I'm not saying it should have been raised to the ground, but it was skid row.

Historically, that is still not true. Most of the houses in the area that you cite were built in the early 19th century, long before the era of factories and before the Reading Viaduct was built. Even in the early 20th century, the area was mainly residential — unlike today. And some of the houses were fairly large, for middle-class people, not just workers.

In regard to Chinatown, to my understanding, the Chinese ethnic population greatly expanded in Philadelphia in the decades after World War II. The Chinese residential area overflowed from the "old" Chinatown, centered around Race St., to adjacent areas — including north of Vine. The widening of Vine St. destroyed a lot of the housing stock.

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Part of what is so appealing to me about the current plan is all to the people it forces onto Market street from 8th to 12th. The development that will induce is going to be fantastic for the area. It will be unrecognizable within a year or two of the arena opening. If the arena goes in that far north like you’re suggesting, it’s no guarantee that section of Market sees the transformational change it will see under the current plan.

I just have no doubt that Market Street is already heading in a good direction.
Perhaps not as quickly as some would like.

Is there a precedent?
Is there an example of an arena moving into a district where the district has benefitted?
No really.

I know in Pittsburgh, that new arena still sits amongst parking lots, for the most part.
The development that has happened would have with out the arena.
They tore down the "Igloo" for this "mall". That's what it looks like. A big fat mall that, other than when people are actually streaming in or out of the building, does little to enhance the neighborhood. It has little interaction with the street.
Perhaps if it sat above street level retail.

In Miami their arena sat disconnected from Downtown for decades.
my first apt in NY was 1 block from MSG. After a game or concert the drunken masses descended on the neighborhood. My visiting sister was accosted twice.
Not something that I see attracting residential development. Commercial development seems to be at a stand still everywhere, Center City development will largely count on residential and lab space.
What some people blithely call NIMBYs I see as the residents who've invested in the neighborhood.
What some see as placing it where it will have the biggest impact
I see it as placing it where it would do the least harm.

This shows some proposals over the past few years in red. Including the "Fashion District" tower proposals.
The blue are under construction.

East Market by , on Flickr

[Urbanthusiat]

[delete]

[PHLJD13]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Exactly what I was thinking.

Yeah, sounds like they're exploring putting a soup kitchen right at the head of the 13th Street restaurant corridor in the Gayborhood - one of the few places in greater East Market that hasn't seen too much ill-effect from the area's recent quality-of-life degradation.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

Yeah, sounds like they're exploring putting a soup kitchen right at the head of the 13th Street restaurant corridor in the Gayborhood - one of the few places in greater East Market that hasn't seen too much ill-effect from the area's recent quality-of-life degradation.

You’re reading something into the articles that wasn’t stated therein. It could — for instance — be utilized as a training facility for culinary workers. (Did you know that Project Home at one time had a catering business and also ran a cafe inside the Free Library, staffed by formerly homeless.)

From the Inquirer:
Gheysens said the company is working with a nonprofit partner that may be able to use the 13th and Chestnut location, making note of the catering facility in its basement.

[chimpskibot]

I just walked by what I presume is the spark therapeutics headquarters being excavated. Looks like it could be getting started soon!! Oh and Amy Gutman hall? Is having the foundation poured.

[Easiered]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

I just walked by what I presume is the spark therapeutics headquarters being excavated. Looks like it could be getting started soon!! Oh and Amy Gutman hall? Is having the foundation poured.

Any chance of getting some photos?

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

I just walked by what I presume is the spark therapeutics headquarters being excavated. Looks like it could be getting started soon!! Oh and Amy Gutman hall? Is having the foundation poured.

*sp Amy Gutmann (2 ‘n’s)

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by Easiered

Any chance of getting some photos?

Ucity will look so different in 2yrs! Also If you are in the area definitely try Maison Sweet by A La Mousse within Evo Cira Centre. Its like a cafe I would see in NYC,LA,Tokyo, etc.

[Mtphilly]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

Ucity will look so different in 2yrs! Also If you are in the area definitely try Maison Sweet by A La Mousse within Evo Cira Centre. Its like a cafe I would see in NYC,LA,Tokyo, etc.

Do you have renderings of what is going here?

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by Mtphilly

Do you have renderings of what is going here?

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...street-station

[The 700 Block]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Sorry, pictures aren't great. The overbuild at 10th and Washington looks solid and does a good job at fitting into the area. I always like to see red brick.

I agree, great project. Thanks for sharing

[Easiered]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...street-station

Thanks so much for the wonderful Spark excavation photos. I find it amazing that our local media did not report on the start of construction of the first new manufacturing facility in Center City Philadelphia in maybe 100 years. It demonstrates the need for this forum.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

To address the bold...

It was a mistake not to demolish the mall in 2018. A poorly planned and researched project from the start, most of us predicted it. So it's not insane to suggest the mall be torn down and replaced with a mixed-use plan like across the street. I figured you would at least agree with that idea... I also didn't say anything negative about the retailer offerings in the mall.

"Couldn't care less".

They weren't empty when I walked by.

Your statement about the FDP project is pure speculation. What evidence do you have that the entire project was poorly "researched"? NOTHING will be better during the daylight hours with an empty stadium. That is just a fact. And if there are dollars and the will to invest tens or hundreds of millions into east market outside of the arena location then that should be done anyway. I have not heard anything from the sixers suggesting they plan to invest heavily in the surrounding area so I do not understand where all this talk of hotels and mixed used development beyond the perimeter of the arena is coming from. The sixers need NONE of that to make the team more valuable- all they need is their own arena- surrounding development is of no consequence to their overall mission.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Part of what is so appealing to me about the current plan is all to the people it forces onto Market street from 8th to 12th. The development that will induce is going to be fantastic for the area. It will be unrecognizable within a year or two of the arena opening. If the arena goes in that far north like you’re suggesting, it’s no guarantee that section of Market sees the transformational change it will see under the current plan.

Considering the arena would likely be accessible from underground access points I do not think you will see tens of thousands of patrons window shopping or eating on Market street after games. Part of the appeal of the site is that you can come in and leave on transit without having to come above ground. Now folks that park in garages will likely be walking at street level for what its worth, but I dont see suburbanites as your likely demographic for grabbing food or drink after a game ends at 9:30-10pm.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...street-station

Great to see this move forward so quickly. Hopefully this helps increase retainage of nearby graduates at Penn and Drexel!

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Your statement about the FDP project is pure speculation. What evidence do you have that the entire project was poorly "researched"? NOTHING will be better during the daylight hours with an empty stadium. That is just a fact. And if there are dollars and the will to invest tens or hundreds of millions into east market outside of the arena location then that should be done anyway. I have not heard anything from the sixers suggesting they plan to invest heavily in the surrounding area so I do not understand where all this talk of hotels and mixed used development beyond the perimeter of the arena is coming from. The sixers need NONE of that to make the team more valuable- all they need is their own arena- surrounding development is of no consequence to their overall mission.

My friend, you've made your fair share of speculative statements lately (like the post I responded to)... And a financially troubled developer began the plan as a high-end shopping destination, then shifted to outlets, then buckled down on the drying dinosaur mall concept... A strong strategy in 1985, not 2018.

I said several times now that the Sixers SHOULD develop a masterplan for the area, not plop down an arena and walk away. Market East needs a comprehensive plan that includes more than an arena, but I never suggested they are "planning" that.

This convo is exhausting... Let's agree to disagree...

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Your statement about the FDP project is pure speculation. What evidence do you have that the entire project was poorly "researched"?

A number of us work in corporate retail (i.e. the HQs of major/contemporary/luxury retailers). I think it was us (based on insider knowledge of revenue, location decisions, business models, and how the outlet business works) that confidently proclaimed the Outlet model was bound to fail (at this location) from the get go.

We were right.

Anyways. Carry on.

[summersm343]

Hey all! This thread is going to be closed due to the high page count. All General/Lowrise Developments can now be posted in the new thread below:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...10#post9841410